So what exactly is the charismatic movement?

[SqueezetheShaman]

Seems as though they are the ones who believe in the "wacky" stuff, such as demons, and such...sort of on the mystical side of christianity?? Is this accurate?

 

[Blessed75]

Seems as though they are the ones who believe in the "wacky" stuff, such as demons, and such...sort of on the mystical side of christianity?? Is this accurate?

how would you like me to slap you upside the head since you've known me 15 YEARS AND I WAS RAISED CHARASMATIC?????????????????????

 

[SqueezetheShaman]

I had no clue. we didn't discuss religion growing up you dweeb. so answer me

 

[nyj]

Seems as though they are the ones who believe in the "wacky" stuff, such as demons, and such...sort of on the mystical side of christianity?? Is this accurate?

If it's considered "wacky" to believe in demons and such, then I guess Catholics are wacky too. There is a precise form for the expulsion of demons from human hosts, called exorcism. There have been many Catholic mystics as well, probably the most notable of which was St. Joan of Arc.

 

[Mr.Cheese]

Actually, not believing in demons would be a little more wacky as far as I know.

The charismatic movement, Ironically, is a more subjective, experience oriented movement. I consider the whole "praise and worship" movement to fit in here too. Kind of postmodern...

 

[Polycarp1]

In the briefest and most objective form I can muster, I'd define "the charismatic movement" as the tendency among the more emotionally-oriented* members of the "mainstream" churches to enter into a form of what they consider as experiencing God's presence characterized by the "spiritual gifts" described in I Corinthians 12 and 14, and most particularly glossolalia, "the gift of tongues." Distinguish this from the reversal-of-Babel phenomenon described in Acts 2, where hearers of preaching were able to comprehend it as if preached in their native tongue; the gift spoken of here is characterized by a "prayer language" of emotional release only partially consciously driven, resembling in some ways a self-hypnosis in being simultaneously willed in one sense and not consciously willed in another sense. Prayer in tongues seems to bring a sense of exhilaration and peace to the person praying.

The members of the "charismatic renewal" believe themselves to have been especially filled by the Holy Spirit, are characterized by a strong enthusiasm for Biblical and doctrinal study and a zeal for evangelism and taking stands they believe morally right, often based on a quite literalistic reading of Scripture, which "comes alive" for them.

It resembles the Pentecostal Movement of the early 20th Century, but differs in that the members are -- usually -- not possessed of a sense of needing to "come out from among them" but rather have a sense that their job is to be the ferment that causes renewal and a deeper experiential relationship with God within the churches to which they belonged before experiencing the indwelling of the Spirit.

It's present in Catholicism, Episcopalianism, Methodism, Presbyterianism, the Baptist groups, and probably nearly every denomination not already Pentecostal (where it would be like adding water to an aquarium!).

Some denominations are actively hostile to the movement, holding that the gifts died out with the Apostolic age. Others are skeptical, and others embrace it as a way of church renewal and growth. In this post, I am attempting not to place any personal view in these descriptions, but to use the language of the charismatic movement to describe itself, interpreting it where needed, and to the extent possible making statements as to how the movement describes itself and the occurrences common to it.


* "Emotionally-oriented" is not used here at all pejoratively, but in the Meyers-Briggs sense: people whose motivation is more strongly based in emotion and not in dry reason. Needless to say, this is a spectrum, not an antithesis, but if one ranked people 0-10 on degree to which emotions are the prime motivator, those in the charismatic movement would rank high on the scale.

 

[SqueezetheShaman]

Thanks for the great explanation, Polycarp. I had an idea, but wanted an elaboration.

And don't mind the term "wacky" it wasn't meant mean spirited, heck my beliefs are much wackier than the average christian

 

[Salvatore Gonzales]

And don't mind the term "wacky" it wasn't meant mean spirited, heck my beliefs are much wackier than the average christian

Doodeedoodeedoo.

 

[Polycarp1]

Actually, not believing in demons would be a little more wacky as far as I know.

May I, without giving offense, play off your post to complain about something that annoys the **** out of me? (And yes, I typed asterisks -- fill in your own offensive word! )

I do not "believe in" demons -- I believe in God. Only He has the power to save me and the love to want to.

It annoys me for people to use "believe" in the sense of "give credence to the probable existence of" -- there are a lot of synonyms, like think, feel, opine, consider likely that, etc.

For me, to believe in means to put one's full faith and trust in. Only God deserves that without restriction -- I "believe in" my wife in that I have known her virtually all my life and know I can trust her and have confidence in her love for me almost illimitably -- but she's a limited human being, without the power to save me in the theological sense and, with her physical limitations, quite possibly would be unable to save me from a car accident or some other life-threatening disaster, though I know she'd try with all that is in her to do so. But God has both power and intention to save, and is loving and forgiving -- I can trust Him without limit.

To say "I believe in demons" or "I believe in OSAS" or "I believe in the Immaculate Conception" is to me a solecism of the first order -- I do not put my faith and trust and eternal hope of salvation in demons or theological dogmas, but in the Living God.

Sorry for the hijack, and, Mr Cheese, I hope my making use of your inadvertent use of that word to make the point was not offensive.

 

[SqueezetheShaman]

Doodeedoodeedoo.

excuse me?

i mean...
exsqueeze me??

 

[Polycarp1]

Thanks for the great explanation, Polycarp. I had an idea, but wanted an elaboration.

And don't mind the term "wacky" it wasn't meant mean spirited, heck my beliefs are much wackier than the average christian

My pleasure -- and I for one don't take offense -- we are, after all, called, in Paul's words, "to be a peculiar people"!!

 

[SqueezetheShaman]

My pleasure -- and I for one don't take offense -- we are, after all, called, in Paul's words, "to be a peculiar people"!!

ah I don't remember that one in my reading. I will definitely find use for that piece of scripture.

 

[Blessed75]

I had no clue. we didn't discuss religion growing up you dweeb. so answer me

I AM NOT A DWEEB- you're right, it was clothes and boys and clothes and boys, etc............um ck your pm - got a 2nd degree burn OT -

glad someone explained it to ya............

 

[Blessed75]

ah I don't remember that one in my reading. I will definitely find use for that piece of scripture.

oh look out everybody!

 

[Salvatore Gonzales]

excuse me?

i mean...
exsqueeze me??

Just me singing and dancing. I actually *do*
have a sense of humor. When I read something
funny, that's not vulgar, it brings a smile to
my face on this side of the digital stream.

 

[Salvatore Gonzales]

ah I don't remember that one in my reading. I will definitely find use for that piece of scripture.

Or a song that goes:

"We're all just fools for the Lord
With faith in things unseen"


I mean, yes, look at me. How can
I have such strong faith in what others
can't see?

 

[SqueezetheShaman]

Just me singing and dancing. I actually *do*
have a sense of humor. When I read something
funny, that's not vulgar, it brings a smile to
my face on this side of the digital stream.

AH
Well glad I could do that for ya. I like being laughed at. I mean....I like to be thought of as funny

 

[PRMan]

In the briefest and most objective form I can muster, I'd define "the charismatic movement" as the tendency among the more emotionally-oriented* members of the "mainstream" churches to enter into a form of what they consider as experiencing God's presence characterized by the "spiritual gifts" described in I Corinthians 12 and 14, and most particularly glossolalia, "the gift of tongues." Distinguish this from the reversal-of-Babel phenomenon described in Acts 2, where hearers of preaching were able to comprehend it as if preached in their native tongue; the gift spoken of here is characterized by a "prayer language" of emotional release only partially consciously driven, resembling in some ways a self-hypnosis in being simultaneously willed in one sense and not consciously willed in another sense. Prayer in tongues seems to bring a sense of exhilaration and peace to the person praying.

The members of the "charismatic renewal" believe themselves to have been especially filled by the Holy Spirit, are characterized by a strong enthusiasm for Biblical and doctrinal study and a zeal for evangelism and taking stands they believe morally right, often based on a quite literalistic reading of Scripture, which "comes alive" for them.

It resembles the Pentecostal Movement of the early 20th Century, but differs in that the members are -- usually -- not possessed of a sense of needing to "come out from among them" but rather have a sense that their job is to be the ferment that causes renewal and a deeper experiential relationship with God within the churches to which they belonged before experiencing the indwelling of the Spirit.

It's present in Catholicism, Episcopalianism, Methodism, Presbyterianism, the Baptist groups, and probably nearly every denomination not already Pentecostal (where it would be like adding water to an aquarium!).

Some denominations are actively hostile to the movement, holding that the gifts died out with the Apostolic age. Others are skeptical, and others embrace it as a way of church renewal and growth. In this post, I am attempting not to place any personal view in these descriptions, but to use the language of the charismatic movement to describe itself, interpreting it where needed, and to the extent possible making statements as to how the movement describes itself and the occurrences common to it.


* "Emotionally-oriented" is not used here at all pejoratively, but in the Meyers-Briggs sense: people whose motivation is more strongly based in emotion and not in dry reason. Needless to say, this is a spectrum, not an antithesis, but if one ranked people 0-10 on degree to which emotions are the prime motivator, those in the charismatic movement would rank high on the scale.

Good write-up, Polycarp. As a Pentecostal (Assemblies of God), I would disagree with only one item. There are many reported cases of people being able to understand tongues as a different language. It's just that the speaker usually doesn't know which language they are speaking!

I can give you a couple if you like:

1. In the first war in Iraq, an A/G Christian was the commander of a unit and an old Iraqi approached the troops. Never knowing exactly what comes of these sorts of meetings, they told him to wait and fetched the commander. Even though the man was speaking Iraqi (or whatever the language they speak is called), God allowed the commander understand perfectly and he understood that the man had a baby with him and was begging for milk. He ordered his men to fetch milk for the man's baby (which hadn't yet been seen). Then he told the man (in tongues/Iraqi) that he was getting milk for the baby, to which the man was overjoyed.

News of this reached some superiors, who summoned him and chided him for never telling them that he was fluent in the local native language, since they had very few people in the military that knew it. He tried to explain to them that he wasn't, but they got angry because several people had witnessed him speaking fluently to the Iraqi man. Ultimately, he convinced them that it was speaking in tongues and a miracle from God to save a baby's life.

2. There was a man who was very embarassed about speaking in tongues, since his prayer language was really weird. He wasn't sure it was a language at all, since it consisted mostly of clicks and pops. He never prayed in it at the altar at church for fear of what others would think.

One day, a missionary came from Africa (this missionary was at our church telling the story) and preached a remarkable, life-changing message. At the end, he called people forward to be bold for Christ. The man with the funny prayer language thought, "How can I be bold for Christ when I can't even use my prayer language in church?" At that point, he began speaking in tongues and the missionary started crying. He turned around to see why the missionary was crying and the missionary said, "Don't stop brother! You have no idea what beautiful things you are saying about God in my native language." From that point on, the man was never ashamed about his prayer language.

Actually, I have prayed in at least 3 or 4 different languages (I think). No idea what languages any of them are.

AND I AM NOT EMOTIONALLY-ORIENTED!!!

 

[MinDach]

So what exactly is the charismatic movement?

We are the people who believe what God said, about the working of the Gifts, that God still talks to his people today, that he still heals, that we can come in to his presents at any time and have fellowship with him every second of the day. That God is not dead, that he is alive.

 

[SoulSearching]

We are the people who believe what God said, about the working of the Gifts, that God still talks to his people today, that he still heals, that we can come in to his presents at any time and have fellowship with him every second of the day. That God is not dead, that he is alive.

Amen! I agree with MinDach.

Because of the love and grace of Jesus Christ, we are the people who know/feel the wondrous working power of the Holy Ghost.

God Bless!
SoulSearching