So it doesn't exist

raven1 said:

So if doubts of Gods existence does not come from OCD just the anxiety afterwards than OCD treatment is an invalid treatment and trying to stifle the anxiety it causes impossible because you should be anxious.

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Please explain. There are a number of assumptions and grammatical issues that make the head of the thread confusing, at least to me.

I had a friend as a kid who never wore shoes. NEVER! He could walk on a hot summer's day asphalt. Me? Heck no! I couldn't do that. What did he do so that he could do it? He built up callouses on his feet that would allow him to walk practically anywhere barefoot. He didn't start out this way over night, it was just a result of what happened as he walked barefoot everywhere.

I liken this to treating your OCD. Depending on the method you use, you build up a "tolerance" for the anxiety provoked by the anxiety inducing thought. Eventually, the anxiety from that thought means nothing.

Just because your body is feeling anxious, does not mean you *should* be anxious.

Hi raven1,

If I understand your remarks previous to this thread (which at present I am not sure I do), you doubt God's existence, at least at times, so you fear God will cast you into hell for your doubts as people you respect have warned you. You have OCD, but your doubts about God's existence are not OCD-generated as if you or your will or mind were not the cause of the doubts. You are the one who doubts, not some faux voice within you.

Furthermore, you doubt an OCD therapist can help you because your doubts are real, and because no OCD therapist could create belief in God (the opposite of doubt in God's existence) in you.

Am I on track representing your problem as you have expressed it?

For that matter, most OCD therapists are probably not Christians or if they are, would probably not take seriously your doubt that God has chosen you for faith in Him. And your fear that God has not chosen you is something you should fear even if a (Christian) OCD therapist does not believe that. Am I still with you? The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom (Prov 1:7). Don't fear one who can kill the body, rather fear the one who can kill and then cast the soul into hell, as Jesus said in the Gospels.

If I understand you (which I may not entirely), I am one of the relatively few Christians nowadays in the US (contrary to yesteryear) who takes seriously the notion that God does not love everybody in the sense relevant here, that is that God does not chose to have mercy on everybody, just on some from every tribe and tongue and people and nation (to paraphrase John's Apocalypse and allude to Rom 9:18 and other verses). Faith in Jesus is a gift from God (Phil. 1:29).

Demonstration of that position is not my purpose here, however, but rather the position may be assumed in general terms without necessarily implying that you or I have or will have received saving mercy from God. And a good Christian OCD therapist would take your belief in God's choosing only some for faith seriously for therapeutic purposes even if the therapist did not believe the position itself.

For this reason and others, a good Christian OCD therapist might not be a bad thing for you even if that therapist cannot undo your doubt in God.

As a Christian who came out of atheism, I can tell you I have my doubts in God's existence or in His goodness or promises. The disciple/apostle Peter had his doubts too, and if you do not know where, I suggest becoming familiar enough with the Scriptures to know. Gideon, Jonah, Jeremiah, and the Psalmist(s) also had their doubts. Have you tried reading the Psalms lately? Or in Christian history, hymn writer William Cowper had severe doubts. He was a friend of John Newton, who wrote the hymn "Amazing Grace." In some respects, you are not alone in your doubts.

Try reading a biography of William Cowper. Much more importantly, read the Bible consistently. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (What am I alluding to in Scriptures here?)

In fact, your fear of (God's) hell is an odd belief for one who doubts God's existence. Perhaps rather your doubt is stronger that God is and will be good specifically to you, though you may also at times doubt that hell and God exist.

If you really want belief in God and in the mercy He has for those who believe in Jesus, ask God for such faith. Pray. Daily. And familiarize yourself with what God says. Read the Bible daily. The Psalms, for example, are introduced by pronouncing a blessing on those who meditate day and night on the law of the Lord. And Jesus saves by the power of the Holy Spirit through the message of the gospel, so familiarize yourself with the gospel message (e.g, try reading the Gospel of John and the Epistle to the Romans).

Befriending other Christians with regular church attendance would help too. And again, a therapist might not be a bad idea.

Please forgive me if you have already been disciplined in using and trying various available resources. I know little about you. Of course you are reaching out for help on this forum to your credit. My point is the encourage you to seek out and avail yourself of whatever helpful resources you can and to compliment you for reaching out where you already have. Being a disciple of Jesus is seldom easy. Keep reaching for the help of God, the Savior from sin and unbelief!

I think you should calm down.
I was reading your comments I think you are extremely anxious.
Generally when I am anxious I hear a music,I play a sport or watch a movie and sometimes I go to the farm .
I was like you when I was in my 16-18 years and now I am much better.I used to worry with everything,Now I am much better.
Maybe you should start playing a musical instrument or do something you like , since I started to play piano I am much more relax.
Read book is good too.


I wish the best for you.

It almost sounds to me as though you are making a work out of belief itself. You spend a great deal of time trying to build faith in yourself to satisfy what you see as God's requirements of belief. But I think the saving faith required for salvation is a gift that God Himself gives, not something you need to be worried about producing on your own.

<staff edit> But if you could take a step back and figure out what you do believe, then you would know where you stand. If you find that you honestly don't believe, then be honest with God and ask Him for the faith that you don't have. Jesus said "ask and you will recieve".

What caused you to doubt?

Do you have doubts about the Bible, Jesus, prayer, etc?

And do you wonder if these doubts are OCD related or just normal?

It's understandable to be restless and upset, especially when the security is taken away. The certainty of it was comforting right? And when doubts come into the picture, everything is all shook up. Anxious and sensitive individuals feel this the most.

Struggling with doubt is not enjoyed by anyone. <staff edit>

raven1 said:

I was told by several people doubting God exists is not a symptom of OCD only the freak out afterwards. I get the first part. The second I don't. You should freak out.

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Just let me say that SOME may say only the anxiety spike is OCD related. I disagree. Obviously, many people without OCD may have doubts, but I totally think that OCD makes us much, much more prone to be plagued with doubts because OCD demands 100% certainty about stuff and that's usually impossible. Thus, if you treat the OCD, many times your mind can settle down and the doubts will become manageable.

kaykay9.0 said:

Just let me say that SOME may say only the anxiety spike is OCD related. I disagree. Obviously, many people without OCD may have doubts, but I totally think that OCD makes us much, much more prone to be plagued with doubts because OCD demands 100% certainty about stuff and that's usually impossible. Thus, if you treat the OCD, many times your mind can settle down and the doubts will become manageable.

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I think kaykay9.0 is correct here.

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