• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

SummerMadness

Senior Veteran
Mar 8, 2006
18,204
11,834
✟340,966.00
Faith
Catholic
Slandering the Unborn
 

Ana the Ist

Aggressively serene!
Feb 21, 2012
39,990
12,573
✟487,130.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

Radagast

comes and goes
Site Supporter
Dec 10, 2003
23,896
9,864
✟344,531.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Upvote 0

SummerMadness

Senior Veteran
Mar 8, 2006
18,204
11,834
✟340,966.00
Faith
Catholic
Not sure what your point is. Maternal drug and alcohol abuse during pregnancy can actually harm their unborn baby, and "crack babies" aka "Neonatal Abstinence Syndrome" really is a thing.
You might want to do some reading again, neonatal abstinence syndrome does not happen in "crack babies." And what do you mean by my point? The editorial merely gives caution to creating police based on media sensationalism and poor scientific rigor. Much like Reefer Madness of the 1930s and prohibition in the 1920s, propagandizing drugs and alcohol leads to bad policies and the creation of other social problems (e.g., the rise organized crime).
 
Upvote 0

dgiharris

Old Crusty Vet
Jan 9, 2013
5,439
5,222
✟146,531.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single

Seriously what are you on about?

Doing drugs, ANY drugs, is harmful to the fetus.

Sure, "neonatal abstinence syndrome" *not sure about that but I will google fu later* may not happen in crack babies, but there are a host of other horrifically bad things that happen to crack babies, alcohol babies, smoking babies, meth babies, etc.

Don't quibble with word games. Seriously, it makes your argument disingenuous. Smoking crack while pregnant is harmful, VERY HARMFUL, to the fetus.

and don't use argumentative tricks like defining harm as a singular concept like "neonatal abstinence syndrome" and then crafting an argument against that as if that is the only argument to be had. Having done some google fu, it turns out that neonatal abstinence syndrome is in fact a thing.

Can you link to medical studies that prove it is not a thing (as you keep claiming).

In any event, I have no idea what your argument is.

Lastly, it is a strategic mistake of the highest order to try to argue that crack babies and pregnant women that smoke crack are discriminated against more so than mothers that abuse other drugs???

This is a ridiculously silly argument to engage in because no sane person has any sympathy for pregnant women that smokes crack.

There are plenty of legitimate arguments to be had about discrimination, there are plenty of poster child anecdotes detailing racial inequality that you can argue. So why on God's green earth would you try to defend the indefensible?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

SummerMadness

Senior Veteran
Mar 8, 2006
18,204
11,834
✟340,966.00
Faith
Catholic
How about the facts?

Crack Babies: Twenty Years Later

Crack Babies: The Epidemic That Wasn't

Decades Later, Drugs Didn't Hold 'Crack Babies' Back

No one is arguing that doing drugs during pregnancy is good or should be encouraged, but crafting policies based on incomplete data has had a negative legacy that we're only now beginning to address. The crack baby is a myth, it doesn't seem right, but it is a myth. If we want to start moving forward in a more positive direction, simply accepting "conventional wisdom" that is wrong is not the way to proceed. This topic is not about discrimination, it's about drug policy, public health, women's rights, and criminal justice reform.
 
Upvote 0

Radagast

comes and goes
Site Supporter
Dec 10, 2003
23,896
9,864
✟344,531.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Smoking crack while pregnant is harmful, VERY HARMFUL, to the fetus.

Indeed it is. See, for example:

Fetal Cocaine Exposure: Neurologic Effects and Sensory-Motor Delays

Developmental and behavioral consequences of prenatal cocaine exposure: a review

Developmental Consequences of Fetal Exposure to Drugs: What We Know and What We Still Must Learn

What are the effects of maternal cocaine use?

As with other forms of damage to the unborn child, a good home environment can do a great deal to ameliorate these problems. However, that is often difficult to achieve for the children of drug addicts.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

SummerMadness

Senior Veteran
Mar 8, 2006
18,204
11,834
✟340,966.00
Faith
Catholic

From the links you provided:

No one is arguing there is no effect of drug use in pregnancy, but the effects of crack on fetuses and its effect on childhood development were overblown. Nonetheless, many policies enacted were based on this overblown idea. Next time you post some articles, take some time to actually read them.
 
Upvote 0

Radagast

comes and goes
Site Supporter
Dec 10, 2003
23,896
9,864
✟344,531.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Next time you post some articles, take some time to actually read them.

Next time you reply, please don't be so offensive; I read them. And you're quoting a little selectively, those articles report significant long-term negative effects of cocaine use:

"Consistent with our earlier findings, infants exposed to cocaine persisted in lagging behind the comparison group on both Mental and Motor Scale average standard scores."

"recent well-controlled prospective studies suggest that PCE does in fact affect fetal physical growth, resulting in an increased likelihood of premature delivery and generalized growth retardation (that is, decreased birth weight, shorter length and smaller head circumference)"

"recent studies of children between toddlerhood and elementary school age have reported main effects of PCE on language skills, even after controlling for multiple social, medical and environmental risk factors"

"scientists are now finding that exposure to cocaine during fetal development may lead to subtle, yet significant, later deficits in some children. These include behavior problems (e.g., difficulties with self-regulation) and deficits in some aspects of cognitive performance, information processing, and sustained attention to tasks—abilities that are important for the realization of a child’s full potential. Some deficits persist into the later years, with prenatally exposed adolescents showing increased risk for subtle problems with language and memory."
 
Upvote 0