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Discussion and Debate
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Politics
General Political Discussion
Situational Fetus Murder
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<blockquote data-quote="variant" data-source="post: 43947490" data-attributes="member: 114463"><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">You can consistently rail against capitol punishment and be ok with abortion if you dislike broad state powers.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">I do not want the power of who lives and who dies to be a power of the state. I do not want them mandating that women have to bring all children they conceive to term (effectively controlling how people reproduce) or say forcing abortions on "undesirable" women. I do not want them using the death penalty to make people feel better by exacting state sanctioned revenge killings.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Needless wars are a bad symptom of an out of control, power hungry government. Marriage should be defined by people, religion and contract laws and NOT be a state/government institution to support a particular religions viewpoints.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">As far as abortion goes:</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">It is really a difficult issue both morally and legally because it is a very unique situation, where there are valid competing value claims, and since it can be seen from many different angles.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">It hinges around whether someone thinks that a unborn child has a natural right to live, and whether that right trumps the woman&#8217;s rights which it dwells inside.</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">I am opposed to abortion past fetal viability due to the fact that the child is then being killed when it could simply be removed and placed under the care of the state, most likely with no difference in health effect to the mother.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">If the state values the life more than the mother, why not give it to them? I don't see how it would serve anyone involved to abort in this instance, and I think that as medical science progresses the issue of abortion should cause fewer problems, as the women will not need to serve the purpose of life support to the infant.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">I also would not have any problem with the state paying women to carry their children to term, along the lines of what a surrogate gets paid (after putting the child up for adoption)(Note the Fifth amendment again). This would encourage more women to do so. If the state really wants to say it holds the life of an unborn child to be a valuable and compelling state interest, then they should VALUE it (put their money and support where their ideological mouths are).</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">The only way value really exists is through action. Otherwise it is all just empty words.</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="color: black"><span style="color: black">Morally I agree completely that people should take responsibility for their actions. I am simply not in the position to make the moral judgment for everyone (And I don't think anyone else should decide for everyone either). If a woman feels obligated to carry the baby to term she probably will, or she is probably terribly conflicted. The question is whether or not she should be obligated against her will.</span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="color: black"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"></span></p><p><span style="color: black">Legally I am not a fan of enforcing my morality on people in questionable situations like abortion (and it is very questionable moral ground for a lot of people). Legally I am not a fan of having the government mandate what a woman does and doesn&#8217;t do with her uterus, or what any of us do or do not do with our bodies in general.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">What business is this of the government? To DICTATE what goes on inside a woman&#8217;s uterus?</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">God in the sense that you describe probably wouldn&#8217;t create life by mistake.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">There are plenty of analogies we can draw (and this is done very often in this debate), but the situation is really rather unique.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">I am sure the child would be appalled, but I have no idea how that matters in the conversation (since we really have to be appalled for them). You would have to expand that. It's a really good question for someone considering an abortion to think about.</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">I appreciate anyone who actually likes to discuss things.</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="variant, post: 43947490, member: 114463"] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black]You can consistently rail against capitol punishment and be ok with abortion if you dislike broad state powers.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]I do not want the power of who lives and who dies to be a power of the state. I do not want them mandating that women have to bring all children they conceive to term (effectively controlling how people reproduce) or say forcing abortions on "undesirable" women. I do not want them using the death penalty to make people feel better by exacting state sanctioned revenge killings.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Needless wars are a bad symptom of an out of control, power hungry government. Marriage should be defined by people, religion and contract laws and NOT be a state/government institution to support a particular religions viewpoints.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]As far as abortion goes:[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]It is really a difficult issue both morally and legally because it is a very unique situation, where there are valid competing value claims, and since it can be seen from many different angles.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]It hinges around whether someone thinks that a unborn child has a natural right to live, and whether that right trumps the woman’s rights which it dwells inside.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]I am opposed to abortion past fetal viability due to the fact that the child is then being killed when it could simply be removed and placed under the care of the state, most likely with no difference in health effect to the mother.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]If the state values the life more than the mother, why not give it to them? I don't see how it would serve anyone involved to abort in this instance, and I think that as medical science progresses the issue of abortion should cause fewer problems, as the women will not need to serve the purpose of life support to the infant.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]I also would not have any problem with the state paying women to carry their children to term, along the lines of what a surrogate gets paid (after putting the child up for adoption)(Note the Fifth amendment again). This would encourage more women to do so. If the state really wants to say it holds the life of an unborn child to be a valuable and compelling state interest, then they should VALUE it (put their money and support where their ideological mouths are).[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]The only way value really exists is through action. Otherwise it is all just empty words.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]Morally I agree completely that people should take responsibility for their actions. I am simply not in the position to make the moral judgment for everyone (And I don't think anyone else should decide for everyone either). If a woman feels obligated to carry the baby to term she probably will, or she is probably terribly conflicted. The question is whether or not she should be obligated against her will.[/COLOR] [/COLOR] [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Legally I am not a fan of enforcing my morality on people in questionable situations like abortion (and it is very questionable moral ground for a lot of people). Legally I am not a fan of having the government mandate what a woman does and doesn’t do with her uterus, or what any of us do or do not do with our bodies in general.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]What business is this of the government? To DICTATE what goes on inside a woman’s uterus?[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]God in the sense that you describe probably wouldn’t create life by mistake.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]There are plenty of analogies we can draw (and this is done very often in this debate), but the situation is really rather unique.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]I am sure the child would be appalled, but I have no idea how that matters in the conversation (since we really have to be appalled for them). You would have to expand that. It's a really good question for someone considering an abortion to think about.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]I appreciate anyone who actually likes to discuss things.[/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
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