Sincere questions for conservatives

[Lady Bug]

Well -

I left for awhile, but I came back here to post something because I have gotten fed up with the recent liberal maneuvers of our new President.

I have quite a lot to say I guess, but right now I'll only ask one question because I honestly want to learn the truth here.

About Bush's tax cuts -

Now - I have seen the rationale for not raising taxes on certain entities because it threatens the ability of employers to hire new people. The rationale looks pretty compelling. But my question is, how come, since these tax cuts, have we still lost thousands of jobs? Why are employers not hiring as much, or at all? Why is the economy still bad? If tax cuts are the answer, and I'm not saying that they are not, why has joblessness run amok?

Please keep in mind, I am a lot more ignorant on politics than some people, so no taunting please

I was one of those people (and again, no taunting) who unfortunately did not forsee how bad Barack Obama was going to truly be. I thought that maybe he would pull a few surprises as an act of bipartisanship but I am beyond agitated at the measures he has taken to faciliate abortion. God only knows how soft this man will be on terrorism, gay marriage, whatever. I'm so darned sick of it all. McCain would have put his freakin foot down on these guys.

There might be a thing or two I still don't agree on with Repubs but I have officially gotten sick of the social liberalism of the left and I can no longer overlook it like I thought I could this election. God only knows why I was so blind. I think I've seen the light. I want to stand up for my country - and people are out there to destroy it but we (royal we) are more worried about appeasement and political correctness than our own identity as a nation.

I also think I want to find out where I really stand - ways to find out what I really am - instead of hearing the same buzz words all the time about liberal vs. conservative (I know I'm conservative but I'd like to say what it stood for politically if someone asked - ok I feel stupid asking this lol)

 

[Jim47]

Hi Lady Bug

Why are employers not hiring as much, or at all? Why is the economy still bad? If tax cuts are the answer, and I'm not saying that they are not, why has joblessness run amok?

I'm no expert of politics as I really hate it, but heres a shot at a short answer.

Our first problem was the bottom fell out of the housing industry, and that was mainly because it was all a hoax, supported only by tax payer dollars to put select poor folks into expensive homes that they had no way of paying the money back, all strongly backed by Obama and the whole DNC, but rejected by the Repubs. THis led to the housing crisis which will never be fixed, and also was the root problem of the financial crisis, as the banks were given orders by the feds to lend out this money, again, all backed by tax payer dollars.

What happens when you put money in a bucket with no bottom in it? Get the picture? All DNC government scams

Then we have the auto crisis. The unions long ago demanded high wages and benefits that the auto makers couldn't afford, so what do they do to stay afloat, raise the price of cars and trucks right? Remember when you could buy a car for $2500? I do. Anyway, now we have hundreds of thousands of retired auto workers, who worked 30 years and retire at 90% pay and nearly full benefits. So what do the auto makers do to keep profitable? Raise prices right?

Finally they can no longer compete with Toyota, Honda and Nissan all the other imports and they look for tax payer money to bail them out.

There's more to this story, but the only other main point is that the federal gov. has not come through as our new administration promised, and since he took office folks can't get a loan for anything, unless they already have big colateral, therefore no one buys cars, houses or anything and America's work force is put out of work.

Now here is what some folks don't know. This is what Obama actually wants, because he will soon have 50% of the nation on full government support and they will keep him in office Slick heh?

 

[dayhiker]

My understading of the 1st part of the problem was when the 5 largest bank asked the Bush government to allow them to change now much leverage they could use. Historically it has been 16 to 1 ... that is for each dollar they actually had the could len 16. Bush's government allowed them to leverage 40 t 1.

Now fanny may and fanny max had reguired home buyers to document they income to get a lone and to be able to pay back the morgage. But These two quasi government organizations made some mistakes that undermined the confidance in them. This allowed the banks to start to buy blocks of load morgages and sell them to envestors. Peopled loved this because house prices had always gone up and no one thought people would not make payments on their homes.

These products were so in demand that and the investment bank had so much money to loan because they could now load 40 dollars for each dollar they had that they had to get more people to buy homes or take out home exuity loans. Both the Dems and Reps pushed home ownership.

Most of the money that has been loaned to the banks has been to help them unleverage.

Who is to blame?
Banks - they leaveeraged too much and OKed products to people that didn't have rules that people document their income.
People writting the morgages - because they know people while they could make the paryments in the short term wouldn't be able to make the paryments when the rates changed.
People buying the morgages - because they signed the contract without really knowing what they were signing.
Investors - they wanted great returns that was beyond what could normally be expected.

So my view is that everyone is guilty as far as I can tell.

 

[Lady Bug]

I was doing halfway well until all the investor things started coming in. I'm not good with finance lingo. Which is a pity because I studied finance before but I forgot all of it But I don't think I learned anything about this anyway.

I'm not sure it has anything to do with attention span right now either. I'm just not good with this "business" language at all - which is very ironic, but oh well

 

[ajqrszwn]

I also think I want to find out where I really stand - ways to find out what I really am - instead of hearing the same buzz words all the time about liberal vs. conservative (I know I'm conservative but I'd like to say what it stood for politically if someone asked - ok I feel stupid asking this lol)

The only way to know where you stand on an issue is to research it, and then figure out where you stand. Take a look at some conservative groups and some liberal ones, and find out what their positions are. Think about why they have those positions. Also, different groups mean different things when they use the same words. "Freedom of speech" to one group does not mean the same to another.
<staff edit>

AJ

 

[Jim47]

I was doing halfway well until all the investor things started coming in. I'm not good with finance lingo. Which is a pity because I studied finance before but I forgot all of it But I don't think I learned anything about this anyway.

I'm not sure it has anything to do with attention span right now either. I'm just not good with this "business" language at all - which is very ironic, but oh well

Don't feel bad, you have to be a liar to understand the political world, and its not worth it. We can look forward to our home The Lord has promised and let them have this place.

 

[edie19]

Don't feel bad, you have to be a liar to understand the political world, and its not worth it. We can look forward to our home The Lord has promised and let them have this place.

AMEN!!!!

 

[sealacamp]

I was one of those people (and again, no taunting) who unfortunately did not forsee how bad Barack Obama was going to truly be.

No taunting intended but I have heard this from several people now and in such a short time it is just dismaying to me that anyone is "seeing" this for the first time. I say that because Obama did not hide anything. He made himself as plain as day and is not proceeding with the leftist agenda that he touted. Of course how all this would come about was not detailed but nothing he stated was good and the fact that so many were fooled or voted for him due to pure racial motives is very disheartening. I can only hope that you and the many that walked the path you now tread will see the truth, adhere to facts, and then do as my parents told me long ago to do "vote for the lesser of two evils." Maybe this is really a blessing in disguise as God so often does and the country, or a majority of it, will come to the Lord in surrender and a new day of God is dawning. I can only hope and pray for this.

Sealacamp

 

[Jim47]

I agree that folks should have read the signs, but many were led astray by high hopes of Obama becoming the messiah so to speak, and indeed he tries to portray that image, but only as a deciever.

His goal is ultimate power and control as was in communist Germany under Hitler. Obama has even fooled himself into thinking that what he is doing is for the good of the country. His goal is to make us reduce our dependancy on oil and electricty so that we don't have the image of power hungry elistists.

But how have we used our power and wealth? Have we not helped every nation on earth with emergencies by providng protection, food and medical supplies, only to be back stabbed in many cases. We've helped Korea by supplying them with food and heating oil.


I can only hope that many will repent and come to faith because of all this, but I'm afraid the price will be high. We could become a thrid world country if we let our military decline, and then we would be an easy target for some one to over power us.

 

[Lady Bug]

No taunting intended but I have heard this from several people now and in such a short time it is just dismaying to me that anyone is "seeing" this for the first time. I say that because Obama did not hide anything. He made himself as plain as day and is not proceeding with the leftist agenda that he touted. Of course how all this would come about was not detailed but nothing he stated was good and the fact that so many were fooled or voted for him due to pure racial motives is very disheartening. I can only hope that you and the many that walked the path you now tread will see the truth, adhere to facts, and then do as my parents told me long ago to do "vote for the lesser of two evils." Maybe this is really a blessing in disguise as God so often does and the country, or a majority of it, will come to the Lord in surrender and a new day of God is dawning. I can only hope and pray for this.

Sealacamp

I hate confessing this because I don't know what is worse, not voting or voting for the wrong man but I didn't vote for Obama - I didn't vote for anyone because I was torn about the whole thing (but I really repented of that and if I could go back, I'd vote - and vote for McCain but oh well) - and unfortunately I didn't pay as much attention to the minute details of the agendas either. A lot of people are unfortunately like this - I happened to be one of them - I feel bad that I didn't vote even though my vote wouldn't have helped McCain win but I couldn't possibly have known that beforehand.

here is where people can all rake me over the coals for this...I'm your whipping girl for today
(if people can forgive the Apostle Paul who said he was the worst of sinners, I hope you can forgive me)

 

[Albion]

No taunting intended but I have heard this from several people now and in such a short time it is just dismaying to me that anyone is "seeing" this for the first time. I say that because Obama did not hide anything. He made himself as plain as day and is not proceeding with the leftist agenda that he touted.

I sympathize with that to some extent. He was plainly a Leftist, anti-life, pro-tax, anti-business, etc. BUT he has taken only a month to break a number of promises that he made very specifically--

Tax cut for the Middle Class
Transparency in government
No earmarks in the budget
Squeeky clean appointments to his Cabinet posts, etc.
Bipartisanship
Get all troops out of Iraq in 16 months


So while I can call such people who believed him terribly gullible, they were indeed misled (not that they couldn't have figured out which parts of his platform were genuine and which were only for purposes of getting elected.)

 

[Jim47]

Just wait when he raises the cost of electricty and heating fuel, added to the fact so many are out of work.

 

[edie19]

I hate confessing this because I don't know what is worse, not voting or voting for the wrong man but I didn't vote for Obama - I didn't vote for anyone because I was torn about the whole thing (but I really repented of that and if I could go back, I'd vote - and vote for McCain but oh well) - and unfortunately I didn't pay as much attention to the minute details of the agendas either. A lot of people are unfortunately like this - I happened to be one of them - I feel bad that I didn't vote even though my vote wouldn't have helped McCain win but I couldn't possibly have known that beforehand.

here is where people can all rake me over the coals for this...I'm your whipping girl for today
(if people can forgive the Apostle Paul who said he was the worst of sinners, I hope you can forgive me)

no reason to rake you over the coals and nothing to forgive dear sister

while President Obama wasn't my choice, he was the choice of one who is wiser than us - if we believe in a sovereign God (and I do) then I have to believe that this presidency, this government was ordained - we just don't see the purpose yet - I am confident that all will work out for the glory of God.

 

[ladyt28]

I think this thread would have been better placed in the political section as conservative Christian does not automatically equate conservative politics.

 

[Jim47]

I for one do not visit the political forum, but there are times when we need to talk about things like this, I see no problem.

 

[MrJim]

no reason to rake you over the coals and nothing to forgive dear sister

while President Obama wasn't my choice, he was the choice of one who is wiser than us - if we believe in a sovereign God (and I do) then I have to believe that this presidency, this government was ordained - we just don't see the purpose yet - I am confident that all will work out for the glory of God.

BAM! Yes that is exactly the bottom line~exciting times we live in~and the way it works out for God's glory may not appear so great to us now, and in fact may be painful and suffering, but in the end Soli Deo Gloria

 

[Lady Bug]

I think this thread would have been better placed in the political section as conservative Christian does not automatically equate conservative politics.

I always tend to put political threads in the wrong place, what's up with that

 

[Albion]

I think this thread would have been better placed in the political section as conservative Christian does not automatically equate conservative politics.

From the beginning of the forum, it was understood that "Conservative Christian" did not mean merely *A Christian whose religious views are traditional, strict, orthodox, Bible-based, etc.* Conservative in the political sense is intended, just as the Liberals have the "Whoever Will May Come" forum.

OTOH, while Conservative Christians act upon their values in the wider world (as the forum's statement says), I understand your point about this particular thread if it seems to you to be too general. I see in the OP, however, that Christian social concerns such as abortion and gay marriage are referred to.

 

[edie19]

MOD HAT ON
​

The OP is in accordance with Conservative Christian's forum specific guidelines

Going forward - please address the topic of the OP and not whether or not the thread should be moved

MOD HAT OFF
​

 

[Lady Bug]

if we get into this kind of debate here, I will ask to close the thread.