Sin is Sin All Sins Are Equal.

Angel4Truth · May 8, 2008

Genesis or as it was in the begining - need not define what isnt ok with God because it shows the ideal all by itself - adam and eve. She was taken from him and together they are complete - no completion in a man and a man or a woman and a woman - the marriage properly is a picture of the church.

Jesus is betrothed to the church - not to the Father and the church is betrothed to Christ not to the world (or itself/same)

LightHorseman · May 8, 2008

Angel4Truth said:
Leviticus does just that and calls it sin...

Leviticus also calls shaving a sin.

Fortunately, Christians, under the New Covenant, are released from the inconsistent, unjust, irrelevant tribal laws that are Leviticus.

Or are you going to tell me in all honesty that YOU obey said laws to the letter?

Put it this way, I won't pay any attention to anyone who cites Leviticus as a source of divine law, who also eats pork or shellfish, or wears garments of mixed fabric.

BreadAlone · May 8, 2008

As it was in the beginning, is now, and will be forever.

Angel4Truth said:
Genesis or as it was in the begining - need not define what isnt ok with God because it shows the ideal all by itself - adam and eve. She was taken from him and together they are complete - no completion in a man and a man or a woman and a woman - the marriage properly is a picture of the church.

Jesus is betrothed to the church - not to the Father and the church is betrothed to Christ not to the world (or itself/same)

IamRedeemed · May 8, 2008

It seems you are making the common error of confusing the ceremonial laws
with the moral laws.

LightHorseman said:
Leviticus also calls shaving a sin.

Fortunately, Christians, under the New Covenant, are released from the inconsistent, unjust, irrelevant tribal laws that are Leviticus.

Or are you going to tell me in all honesty that YOU obey said laws to the letter?

Put it this way, I won't pay any attention to anyone who cites Leviticus as a source of divine law, who also eats pork or shellfish, or wears garments of mixed fabric.

Angel4Truth · May 8, 2008

What is and isnt under the law - doesnt change the purpose of the law and thats to know what is and isnt sin. The law is to declare us all guilty. Guilt leads to repentance - calling homosexual sex anything other than sin - leads not to repentance because it isnt being recognized as what it is.

My problem sure isnt that there are gay people (unlike what some people want to try to claim) its that many who are and call themselves believers refuse to have a repentant heart about this particular sin and try to water down the truth to allow for it.

Before the rest of the straw starts being thrown - gossip is sinful and a good pastor will teach on it just like this sin as well as many others. But i dont see anyone claiming it is not sinful behavior and teaching others its ok with God - I do see that about homosexual relations. The bible even speaks of the same judgment being carried on those who are ok with it - not to mention that its allowance(as well as the allowance of other sins) brings judgment on a nation.

BreadAlone · May 8, 2008

IamRedeemed said:
It seems you are making the common error of confusing the ceremonial laws
with the moral laws.

Here we go again..

LightHorseman · May 8, 2008

It seems you are making the common error of confusing the ceremonial laws
with the moral laws.

Ah, that old cop out. Go on, chapter and verse where such a distinction is made?

Whats that? No such distinction exists in the Bible?

You mean its an arbitrary classification allowing you to break Levitical laws with apparent impugnity, while condemning others for exactly the same thing?

I see.

LightHorseman · May 8, 2008

Before the rest of the straw starts being thrown - gossip is sinful and a good pastor will teach on it just like this sin as well as many others. But i dont see anyone claiming it is not sinful behavior and teaching others its ok with God - I do see that about homosexual relations. The bible even speaks of the same judgment being carried on those who are ok with it - not to mention that its allowance(as well as the allowance of other sins) brings judgment on a nation.

Could it be because gossip actually hurts people, whereas homosexuality doesn't?

Angel4Truth · May 8, 2008

All sin hurts us all.

LightHorseman · May 8, 2008

All sin hurts us all.

Indeed. And the fact that homosexuality doesn't harm anyone, indicates that it is NOT a sin.

Angel4Truth · May 8, 2008

Ask my now celibate gay brother if it doesnt hurt anyone - i grew up with him - it hurts plenty.

LightHorseman · May 8, 2008

Ask my now celibate gay brother if it doesnt hurt anyone - i grew up with him - it hurts plenty.

The intolerance and hatred of others hurts, sure, I can buy that.

How does homosexuality ITSELF hurt anyone?

Angel4Truth · May 8, 2008

Yes it hurt him and hurt everyone who loves him

LightHorseman · May 8, 2008

Yes it hurt him and hurt everyone who loves him

How, specifically?

Please note, people being intolerant bigots to him does not count. Watch this...

Women are sometimes raped, which is awful. This does not make being a woman a bad thing. It makes rape a bad thing.
Homosexuals are sometimes subject to bigotry. This does not make being a homosexual a bad thing. It makes bigotry a bad thing.

So... unless you're gunna come up with some specific examples of how homosexuality, itself, hurt your brother or those around him, I'm afraid I'm gunbna have to call you on "making up unsupported nonsense" and "drawing false conclusions"

LightHorseman · May 8, 2008

Let the tapdancing commence.

Angel4Truth · May 8, 2008

Im not laying his life out for fodder for this thread. Anyone honest with themselves though knows it hurts plenty in plenty of ways. You must think I am some kind of weak if you think you can mock me into submission to your demands. It doesnt and will never work.

Ask yourself whats in your signature about now.

LightHorseman · May 9, 2008

Im not laying his life out for fodder for this thread. Anyone honest with themselves though knows it hurts plenty in plenty of ways. You must think I am some kind of weak if you think you can mock me into submission to your demands. It doesnt and will never work.

Ask yourself whats in your signature about now.

And the tapdancing has commenced.

I submit that the reason you refuse to specify the harm homosexuality has caused to your anonymous brother on an anonymous internet forum is because you very well know that you have got absolutely nothing to say?

Sure, homosexuals are harmed by the bigotry and intolerance of others. No question. However, until someone can cite anything specific about homosexuality causing harm, ITSELF, I'll keep calling you on it.

Homosexuality does not harm anyone. Prove me wrong, or admit you can't. Trying to pretend that its reasonable to expect people to just believe your unsubstantiated, unspecified claims and getting huffy when they ask for evidence is NOT a valid response.

LightHorseman · May 9, 2008

I'm not the one making up ridiculous claims to support my position, am I?

Angel4Truth · May 9, 2008

I submit its someone elses life and i care about their privacy. Its called decency. Good day- after that last post I can see there is nothing else to say to you because nothing said would matter anyway. I forgive you.

LightHorseman · May 9, 2008

I submit its someone elses life and i care about their privacy. Its called decency. Good day- after that last post I can see there is nothing else to say to you because nothing said would matter anyway. I forgive you.

Citing specifics would breach no ones privacy as long as you don't mention a name.

I don't require forgiveness for not believing you without evidence. If you had evidence, you should have no problem presenting it. The fact you refuse to do so demonstrates to me you have no evidence.

Homosexuality harms no one. If you could show me evidence that I am mistaken, I would gladly change my mind. Your refusal to do so, no matter your sanctimonious justifications, suggest that you know as well as I do that there is no evidence.

I.e. you are making up claims to support your position. If you have to make things up to support your position, is your position worth supporting?

Sin is Sin All Sins Are Equal.

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