Sin entered in the world when eve sinned!

beloved57 · Jan 18, 2009

Sin entered in the world when eve sinned!
1 tim 2:

13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

This scripture passage, establishes two things.#1, Federal Headship of the man, and # 2 that adam because of his headship was guilty of eves transgression, so much as so, it is said to be his rom 5:

14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

You see, God called their name Adam gen 5:

1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

So eves transgression was adams transgression..

Some will object to this, but its still true..

as soon as eve ate of the fruit, death pervaded their beings, Just as God said to adam gen 2:

16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

You see, some erronously believe that adam had a choice as to wether or not he could have not eaten of the fruit his wife ate of and gave of him to eat.

Well the truth of the matter is, adam was already dead from the immediate effects of eves transgression, so he yielded himself as a servant of sin..

rom 6:

16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

You see, adams unhestitant compliance to eves giving to him of the fruit to eat also, goes to prove that he was already dead to God, and alive to sin..sin had begun its rule over him and mankind at this time..

bling · Jan 19, 2009

beloved57 said:
Sin entered in the world when eve sinned!
1 tim 2:

13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

This scripture passage, establishes two things.#1, Federal Headship of the man, and # 2 that adam because of his headship was guilty of eves transgression, so much as so, it is said to be his rom 5:

14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

You see, God called their name Adam gen 5:

1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

So eves transgression was adams transgression..

Some will object to this, but its still true..

as soon as eve ate of the fruit, death pervaded their beings, Just as God said to adam gen 2:

16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

You see, some erronously believe that adam had a choice as to wether or not he could have not eaten of the fruit his wife ate of and gave of him to eat.

Well the truth of the matter is, adam was already dead from the immediate effects of eves transgression, so he yielded himself as a servant of sin..

rom 6:

16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

You see, adams unhestitant compliance to eves giving to him of the fruit to eat also, goes to prove that he was already dead to God, and alive to sin..sin had begun its rule over him and mankind at this time..

God did not hold Adam guilty of Eves sin: Gen. 3: 17</SPAN> To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'
"Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.

Adam and Eve had different punishment (Eves was more suffer). Historically, women are often excluded in scripture, so to talk about the Adams to include Adam and Eve would not be unique. They both sinned by both eating, people had only one way of sinning at the time, with nothing mentioned about Adam sinning by Eve eating. The Adam and Eve story is the original Romeo and Juliet story with Adam knowing Eve would die and not able to live without her.

beloved57 · Jan 19, 2009

God did not hold Adam guilty of Eve’s sin: Gen. 3: 17</SPAN> To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'

He did, adam died the moment eve ate, thats why he ate after her..because he was a sinner, He sinned too because he was made a sinner when eve ate.

The elect even now, when we are born, we are sinners before individual personal transgression..so it was with adam, he was constituted a sinner before his personal transgression, because of eve's transgression..scripture says:

13For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Stryder06 · Jan 19, 2009

beloved57 said:
He did, adam died the moment eve ate, thats why he ate after her..because he was a sinner, He sinned too because he was made a sinner when eve ate.

The elect even now, when we are born, we are sinners before individual personal transgression..so it was with adam, he was constituted a sinner before his personal transgression, because of eve's transgression..scripture says:

13For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

I'm sorry beloved but you are incorrect. Saying that adam sinned when eve did is like saying that a man is guilty of adultury if his wife has an affair. Eve sinned when she, now catch this, touched the fruit. For the command was for them to neither touch it nor eat it. As soon as she touched the fruit she had sinned.

Adam did not commit sin unti he took the fruit from his wife and ate of it also. Only than, once adam sinned, did they both realize that they were naked, and than hide themselves from God upon his arrival.

ristretto · Jan 19, 2009

Before Eve ate the fruit from the tree of good and evil, she told the serpent that you must not touch the tree or you will die. So before Eve sinned she already told a lie, which is not possible because she had not yet sinned. Or Eve was just plain stupid for misquoting God, but than God doesn't create stupid people.

So Adam and Eve could have picked all the fruit from the tree of good and evil and give it to the animals to eat. No sin if you take the Word literally. Or Adam and Eve could have burned down the tree, get rid of it by chopping it down and make a chair out of it. Or make pie out of the fruit of the tree of good and evil. Still no sin.

bling · Jan 20, 2009

beloved57 said:
He did, adam died the moment eve ate, thats why he ate after her..because he was a sinner, He sinned too because he was made a sinner when eve ate.

The elect even now, when we are born, we are sinners before individual personal transgression..so it was with adam, he was constituted a sinner before his personal transgression, because of eve's transgression..scripture says:

13For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

I think you are trying to extrapolate and show people can be guilty of another persons sin without doing anything. Just as Adam was not guilty of Eves sin we today are not held accountable for Adam/Eves sin(s).
Paul in 1Tim. 13-14 is not showing Adam to be at fault for Eves sin, read the context: 1 Tim. 2: 9I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.
11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women[a] will be saved[b] through childbearingif they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
Paul is showing why women should hold a non leadership religious worship position over men. It is because the women was deceived and sinned first.

bling · Jan 20, 2009

Stryder06 said:
I'm sorry beloved but you are incorrect. Saying that adam sinned when eve did is like saying that a man is guilty of adultury if his wife has an affair. Eve sinned when she, now catch this, touched the fruit. For the command was for them to neither touch it nor eat it. As soon as she touched the fruit she had sinned.

Adam did not commit sin unti he took the fruit from his wife and ate of it also. Only than, once adam sinned, did they both realize that they were naked, and than hide themselves from God upon his arrival.

The question is where did Eve get the idea: you can not touch the tree? There are three sources: God, Adam or Eve herself. Why would God or Eve add the requirement of not touching the tree? Adam may have had a reason: Eve comes on the seen after Adam is given the instruction concerning the tree. Adam seems to understand the tree and in typical male fashion leaves in alone and goes on about his business, but as soon as Adam explains the tree to Eve, in typical female fashion, she has a thousand questions. She would keep bringing it up to the point Adam might say: Listen you are not to go near that tree and God does not want you to touch it, so forget about it Adam extrapolated Gods commands, which is not good. Eve may have seen animals touching the tree or maybe even Adam touched a branch since it was in the middle of the Garden. I have both sons and daughters that act this way.

beloved57 · Jan 25, 2009

I'm sorry beloved but you are incorrect. Saying that adam sinned when eve did

eve was Adam gen 5:

1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

OldWiseGuy · Jan 31, 2009

If indeed Adam was "the figure of him who was to come", referring to Christ, then all you have to do is study the relationship of Christ and the church to (somewhat) understand what happened in the garden. Christ=Adam, Eve=the church. Who sinned, and who must pay the penalty as if he were the sinner?

God did not put them to death but instead instituted substitutionary sacrifice to 'cover' their sin. The sacrifice looked forward to that of Christ, the second Adam. Therefore Adam as a type of Christ was innocent, but symbolically punished anyway becoming sin on behalf of the church.

Women (types of Eve) will be saved in "childbearing." What this means is that she will be a wife to her husband and submissive to his authority. God-ordained marriage places woman in submission to her husband's rule.

owg

bling · Feb 3, 2009

oldwiseguy said:
If indeed Adam was "the figure of him who was to come", referring to Christ, then all you have to do is study the relationship of Christ and the church to (somewhat) understand what happened in the garden. Christ=Adam, Eve=the church. Who sinned, and who must pay the penalty as if he were the sinner?

God did not put them to death but instead instituted substitutionary sacrifice to 'cover' their sin. The sacrifice looked forward to that of Christ, the second Adam. Therefore Adam as a type of Christ was innocent, but symbolically punished anyway becoming sin on behalf of the church.

Women (types of Eve) will be saved in "childbearing." What this means is that she will be a wife to her husband and submissive to his authority. God-ordained marriage places woman in submission to her husband's rule.

owg

That analogy fit in very limited ways. The biggest difference is Eve did suffer and most would agree suffered more then Adam.

OldWiseGuy · Feb 4, 2009

bling said:
That analogy fit in very limited ways. The biggest difference is Eve did suffer and most would agree suffered more then Adam.

Another thing to remember is that this is what God had planned from their creation. She was made to bear children, he to work hard physically, even before the fall. I also believe that the flesh eating animals were created for that purpose as well even though they at first ate only things that grew from the earth.

The events in the garden were preplanned and orchestrated by God, imo. It was a necessary preface to all the events that would follow. We sometimes read great judgement and condemnation into the text when it is often really a matter-of-fact narrative that describes part of a continuing plan. Events that followed the fall weren't reactive but rather the next steps in a carefully planned process.

owg

bling · Feb 4, 2009

oldwiseguy said:
Another thing to remember is that this is what God had planned from their creation. She was made to bear children, he to work hard physically, even before the fall. I also believe that the flesh eating animals were created for that purpose as well even though they at first ate only things that grew from the earth.

The events in the garden were preplanned and orchestrated by God, imo. It was a necessary preface to all the events that would follow. We sometimes read great judgement and condemnation into the text when it is often really a matter-of-fact narrative that describes part of a continuing plan. Events that followed the fall weren't reactive but rather the next steps in a carefully planned process.

owg

Are you saying since Eve bore children she is like the church that bares children? That again is misleading: the church does not make children of God. God/Jesus through the indwelling Holy Spirit found in individuals can provide the means for non Christians to become Christians. The children that were born by Eve had no say in whether they would be children or not; while every child of God in the Church chose to be there. Also the church does not make children/Christians.

The garden did not have to be planned out, because what happened was inevitable given the situation, as anyone could have figured out. The lessons gained from the Garden were great for Adam and Eve and are wonderful for us. We can all come to the realization that the Garden is a lousy place to fulfill our objective in this life and how much better off we are outside the Garden being forgiven sinners.
Would you like to be in a place where your eternal close relationship with God was dependent on your personal ability to obey God or would you prefer to have your eternal close relationship with God dependent on Gods Love/grace/mercy/forgiveness and the result of Christs obedience?

silentthinker · Feb 4, 2009

Why its is everybody blaming gods creation for this sin nature idea
quiet clearly its gods fault, 'not Adam or eve's fault ' that mankind has this sin nature problem because of the choice god makes.
You see god is the designer of his creation and he designed his creation so that the sin nature would transfer from parent to child at birth.
It looks like god wanted the rest of his creation to fail to.
Forcing this sin nature problem on us robs us of our freewill, because it prevents us from making the one and only right choice 'choosing to live a perfect life just like Jesus did'.

And here's another point to conceder,
when the bible accuses Adam of being the one responsible for the rest of mankind having a sin nature it does so falsely.
In doing so not only does the 'word of God' lie, its breaking the commandment thou shall not bare false witness.

OldWiseGuy · Feb 4, 2009

bling said:
Are you saying since Eve bore children she is like the church that bares children? That again is misleading: the church does not make children of God. God/Jesus through the indwelling Holy Spirit found in individuals can provide the means for non Christians to become Christians. The children that were born by Eve had no say in whether they would be children or not; while every child of God in the Church chose to be there. Also the church does not make children/Christians.

The garden did not have to be planned out, because what happened was inevitable given the situation, as anyone could have figured out. The lessons gained from the Garden were great for Adam and Eve and are wonderful for us. We can all come to the realization that the Garden is a lousy place to fulfill our objective in this life and how much better off we are outside the Garden being forgiven sinners.
Would you like to be in a place where your eternal close relationship with God was dependent on your personal ability to obey God or would you prefer to have your eternal close relationship with God dependent on Gods Love/grace/mercy/forgiveness and the result of Christs obedience?

I was referring to physical childbirth, nothing more.

However Eve is certainly a type of the church in that she had to be redeemed from death by the substitutionary sacrifice, which prefigured the death of Christ to redeem his bride, the church. Adam, prefiguring Christ (the 'second' Adam), actually sacrificed himself by eating the fruit, knowingly incurring the death penalty on Eve's behalf.

The Garden of Eden only existed for a short time. It represented the Paradise of the Kingdom that was lost. In it God re-created the rebellion of Lucifer using Adam and Eve as principal players.

Because he is replacing Lucifer and the rebellious angels with Christ and the Church in a restored kingdom he has to fashion new creatures through the process of sinfulness/repentance/and finally conversion to a new creation that will not rebel once resurrected and changed to spirit.

owg

bling · Feb 5, 2009

oldwiseguy said:
I was referring to physical childbirth, nothing more.

However Eve is certainly a type of the church in that she had to be redeemed from death by the substitutionary sacrifice, which prefigured the death of Christ to redeem his bride, the church. Adam, prefiguring Christ (the 'second' Adam), actually sacrificed himself by eating the fruit, knowingly incurring the death penalty on Eve's behalf.

The Garden of Eden only existed for a short time. It represented the Paradise of the Kingdom that was lost. In it God re-created the rebellion of Lucifer using Adam and Eve as principal players.

Because he is replacing Lucifer and the rebellious angels with Christ and the Church in a restored kingdom he has to fashion new creatures through the process of sinfulness/repentance/and finally conversion to a new creation that will not rebel once resurrected and changed to spirit.

owg

Adam did not die for Eve or Eve would not have died. Christ died for the Church (Christians) so they could/would live forever. God did not call Adams eating of the fruit a sacrifice in any way. Adam does not try to justify to God His sin by calling it a sacrifice. Adam did sin because of his desire for Eve and not because he was deceived. I see it as the original story of Romeo and Juliet with Adam not wanting to live without Eve. Adam would go where Eve was going because Adams love for Eve was greater then the love he had for God.

This is not some entertaining Play for God to reenact some historic battle. God has written many Parables that are truly parallel to the Spiritual meaning. These are not parallel at all.

bling · Feb 5, 2009

Silentthinker said:
Why its is everybody blaming gods creation for this sin nature idea
quiet clearly its gods fault, 'not Adam or eve's fault ' that mankind has this sin nature problem because of the choice god makes.

If we do not blame Adam and Eve then we blame God? We have been made to fulfill our objective in this life and not to not sin. We are not made to sin, but to fulfill our objective of obtaining and growing Godly type Love. (Love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy and Love others). Sinning actually has a purpose for the nonbeliever in that by sinning: you create a burden; you seek forgiveness from your creator; you trust your creator to love you enough to forgive you; and in accepting Gods forgiveness you Love much Luke 19 he that is forgiven much Loves much. Now, that does not mean you should go on sinning after you have been forgiven, because you have Love and growing Love is through using that Love which can not be done if you are sinning.

Silentthinker said:

You see god is the designer of his creation and he designed his creation so that the sin nature would transfer from parent to child at birth.
It looks like god wanted the rest of his creation to fail to.
Forcing this sin nature problem on us robs us of our freewill, because it prevents us from making the one and only right choice 'choosing to live a perfect life just like Jesus did'.

We are all alike, because we all sin. Again we have not been made to sin, but in making us to fulfill the objective we will sin. Sin is not the problem (you can not keep from ever sinning) , but unforgiven sin is a huge problem. Once you do Love then you can obey, because you have the indwelling Holy Spirit to help you. When deity lives inside a human and is allowed to sharer in all that human does You/He will not sin.

Silentthinker said:
And here's another point to conceder,
when the bible accuses Adam of being the one responsible for the rest of mankind having a sin nature it does so falsely.
In doing so not only does the 'word of God' lie, its breaking the commandment thou shall not bare false witness.

The Bible does not accuse Adam of being responsible for sinful nature. It is the byproduct of being able to accept Godly type Love and grow that Love. Adam shows us why the Garden situation does not work and why we need a place to accept and Grow Godly type Love separate and apart from our resting place (heaven). This earth is not our home, but it is an easy and great place to accept Gods Love in the form of forgiveness/mercy/grace.

OldWiseGuy · Feb 22, 2009

bling said:
Adam did not die for Eve or Eve would not have died. Christ died for the Church (Christians) so they could/would live forever. God did not call Adams eating of the fruit a sacrifice in any way. Adam does not try to justify to God His sin by calling it a sacrifice. Adam did sin because of his desire for Eve and not because he was deceived. I see it as the original story of Romeo and Juliet with Adam not wanting to live without Eve. Adam would go where Eve was going because Adams love for Eve was greater then the love he had for God.

This is not some entertaining Play for God to reenact some historic battle. God has written many Parables that are truly parallel to the Spiritual meaning. These are not parallel at all.

This is a play on a grand scale, and God has re-enacted the great angelic battles on the stage of human history. He has written and directed it and will bring the final curtain down as he has revealed through his prophets. The fall of Adam and Eve is a microtype of all the great conspiracies, rebellions, and wars that came before and after them. One must understand this to understand what the grand purpose of God is. We focus on personal salvation, and that is as it should be, but there is more going on here than just that. God is restoring his lost Kingdom, and his glory. Nothing is more important than that. The only reason we are included is because God isn't going to replace the fallen angels with more angels.

owg

beloved57 · Feb 26, 2009

eve was adam according to God gen 5:

1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

So when eve transgressed, adam did to..eves sin was adams sin..likewise the churches sin was Jesus christ sin..thats why he gave his life for the church, for she was bone of his bone, flesh of his flesh..he was held acconatable for her sins by imputation and adam was held accoutable for eves sin by imputation..he die the second she ate, why you think he yielded so easily to her ? because he was dead too..

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