Sin Changing with the Times?

[ScottyK]

Hello!

I might be being a bit of a legalist here, but here goes.

Romans 14 essentially tells us not to put stumbling blocks in the way of our brothers and sisters in Christ. So, if you think something is okay, but someone else sees it as sin, you should not do it in front of them, in the name of love. Romans 14:15 says:

"If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died."

Now, let's apply that to society in the past century. Certain actions would have been considered quite unacceptable 100 years ago that are commonly accepted today. So, by Romans 14, Christians would have been unable to do those things 100 years ago, but today are allowed. For an example, think of swimsuits. A woman showing her knees 100 years ago would have been quite immodest on the beach. However, bikinis are commonplace today.

The unfortunate side effect (which I would like your help with) is that it appears the definition of certain sins are being shaped with time. Not only that, but the definition of sin is being changed by non-believers. The first woman to show her knees, then to bare her thighs, then to show her midriff could not have been a Christian acting in love, according to Paul. But as soon as OTHER people got around to doing it to the point of it becoming socially acceptable, Christians would have been allowed, at least by Romans 14, to show their knees, their thighs, etc.

I'd like to hear your interpretations, opinions, and thoughts! Thank you!

 

[nhislove]

Hello!

I might be being a bit of a legalist here, but here goes.

Romans 14 essentially tells us not to put stumbling blocks in the way of our brothers and sisters in Christ. So, if you think something is okay, but someone else sees it as sin, you should not do it in front of them, in the name of love. Romans 14:15 says:

"If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died."

Now, let's apply that to society in the past century. Certain actions would have been considered quite unacceptable 100 years ago that are commonly accepted today. So, by Romans 14, Christians would have been unable to do those things 100 years ago, but today are allowed. For an example, think of swimsuits. A woman showing her knees 100 years ago would have been quite immodest on the beach. However, bikinis are commonplace today.

The unfortunate side effect (which I would like your help with) is that it appears the definition of certain sins are being shaped with time. Not only that, but the definition of sin is being changed by non-believers. The first woman to show her knees, then to bare her thighs, then to show her midriff could not have been a Christian acting in love, according to Paul. But as soon as OTHER people got around to doing it to the point of it becoming socially acceptable, Christians would have been allowed, at least by Romans 14, to show their knees, their thighs, etc.

I'd like to hear your interpretations, opinions, and thoughts! Thank you!

Satan is subtle
and patient when it comes to dragging God's children down...what used to be evil is now good. What used to hidden in the dark now comes out to met by social status....but we Christians are called intolerent when we see things as they really are!!!! Sin!! Amen!

 

[ScottyK]

Satan is subtle
and patient when it comes to dragging God's children down...what used to be evil is now good. What used to hidden in the dark now comes out to met by social status....

So, once sin, always sin?

You would say women are sinning by wearing anything that shows above the ankles, even today?

but we Christians are called intolerent when we see things as they really are!!!! Sin!! Amen!

But again, what if it isn't inherently sinful, but sin as defined by society? Would a Christian in 1900 be justified in wearing a bikini, or even a one-piece swimsuit? According to Romans 14, no.

 

[Emmy]

Dear SkottyK. Sin, according to God`s Law, will be sin any time. We should never be stumblingblocks to any of our brothers or sisters. The same considerations we show our brothers and sisters, in not eating what is wrong to them, goes also for wearing things like bikinis etc. It is a fact that not every male, or female, can withstand Satan`s crafty lures and temptations. To a Christian, the world is an imperfect world, full of temptations of all sorts. We Christians live in the world, but never of the world. Christians belong to Christ, He is our Saviour and our Leader. Christ gives to His Own His Love, Joy and Peace, and we are commanded to be the Light of the world, and let our light shine. Sin is sin, and always will be sin, and to follow Christ is not easy, yet we will never be alone, and we will never have to carry burdens, too heavy for our backs. I say this humbly and with love, ScottyK. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[ScottyK]

Dear SkottyK. Sin, according to God`s Law, will be sin any time. We should never be stumblingblocks to any of our brothers or sisters. The same considerations we show our brothers and sisters, in not eating what is wrong to them, goes also for wearing things like bikinis etc. It is a fact that not every male, or female, can withstand Satan`s crafty lures and temptations. To a Christian, the world is an imperfect world, full of temptations of all sorts. We Christians live in the world, but never of the world. Christians belong to Christ, He is our Saviour and our Leader. Christ gives to His Own His Love, Joy and Peace, and we are commanded to be the Light of the world, and let our light shine. Sin is sin, and always will be sin, and to follow Christ is not easy, yet we will never be alone, and we will never have to carry burdens, too heavy for our backs. I say this humbly and with love, ScottyK. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

So, if someone believes that it is sinful to use a computer, Romans 14 says that you should not be a stumbling block and use a computer in front of them. That is the loving thing to do. So, as a Christian, it would be a sin then and forever to use a computer?

I feel we have a misunderstanding.

 

[ebia]

Hello!

I might be being a bit of a legalist here, but here goes.

Romans 14 essentially tells us not to put stumbling blocks in the way of our brothers and sisters in Christ. So, if you think something is okay, but someone else sees it as sin, you should not do it in front of them, in the name of love. Romans 14:15 says:

"If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died."

Now, let's apply that to society in the past century. Certain actions would have been considered quite unacceptable 100 years ago that are commonly accepted today. So, by Romans 14, Christians would have been unable to do those things 100 years ago, but today are allowed. For an example, think of swimsuits. A woman showing her knees 100 years ago would have been quite immodest on the beach. However, bikinis are commonplace today.

The unfortunate side effect (which I would like your help with) is that it appears the definition of certain sins are being shaped with time. Not only that, but the definition of sin is being changed by non-believers. The first woman to show her knees, then to bare her thighs, then to show her midriff could not have been a Christian acting in love, according to Paul. But as soon as OTHER people got around to doing it to the point of it becoming socially acceptable, Christians would have been allowed, at least by Romans 14, to show their knees, their thighs, etc.

I'd like to hear your interpretations, opinions, and thoughts! Thank you!

Of course whether a particular act causes harm or is unloving depends upon context. The idea that a context-free eternal set of dos and donts could define sin is absurd.

 

[Stinker]

Well, women in the Middle East go out covered from head to toe so that no male will be tempted. This is the only other alternative to female social dress tolorance.

We Christians are to dress according to the way we think is acceptable. We are not to be judging the dress style of the non-Christian world.

 

[ScottyK]

We Christians are to dress according to the way we think is acceptable. We are not to be judging the dress style of the non-Christian world.

How far can we take that logic? Going once again to Romans 14, if I find it acceptable to eat meat, but there's a vegetarian at the table who thinks it's immoral to eat meat, should I still eat meat?

If a Christian back in 1900 thought it acceptable to show some leg, would that have been okay?

I know I'm playing devil's advocate here, but so far, I think you're on to something, Stinker.

 

[angrylittlefisherman]

I would disagree, God destroyed man for his sin (The flood), I would say that there is no new sin, somethings may become more acceptable on a social level such that they no longer are considered taboo, thus they are performed in the public eye instead of behind closed doors, but sin is sin. Society deems somethings inappropriate, that does not necessarily make it so. Sin has not changed, only society. Jello Biafra (The Dead Kennedy's) once said "For every prohibition you create and underground." It is safe to say that that applies to sin and God's prohibition, if you will, of it. So every sin we see today, immodesty, murder, sexual sin etc...none of it is really new. (Maybe new mediums, there was no internet or video medium for porn, but it existed in some shape or form.) So no sin is not changing, there really cannot be a new sin, just new forms to perform it.

 

[SpiritDriven]

The Sin debt of the entire human race was taken away completly at the Cross.

Part of the Grace extended to you by God is whatever amount of time it takes, for you to come to the relisation that everybody is already saved...they are just not aware of that yet.

All will be one day...if you wish to focus on Sin, you will be enslaved by it, you will not lose your Salvation...you will just be amongst the last to come to know it, after much suffering before hand...that need not have been...but you wanted to focus attention on Sin....you will surely reap what you sow in that regard.

Peace

 

[DonaldOrwinRenKern]

Hello!

I might be being a bit of a legalist here, but here goes.

Romans 14 essentially tells us not to put stumbling blocks in the way of our brothers and sisters in Christ. So, if you think something is okay, but someone else sees it as sin, you should not do it in front of them, in the name of love. Romans 14:15 says:

"If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died."

Now, let's apply that to society in the past century. Certain actions would have been considered quite unacceptable 100 years ago that are commonly accepted today. So, by Romans 14, Christians would have been unable to do those things 100 years ago, but today are allowed. For an example, think of swimsuits. A woman showing her knees 100 years ago would have been quite immodest on the beach. However, bikinis are commonplace today.

The unfortunate side effect (which I would like your help with) is that it appears the definition of certain sins are being shaped with time. Not only that, but the definition of sin is being changed by non-believers. The first woman to show her knees, then to bare her thighs, then to show her midriff could not have been a Christian acting in love, according to Paul. But as soon as OTHER people got around to doing it to the point of it becoming socially acceptable, Christians would have been allowed, at least by Romans 14, to show their knees, their thighs, etc.

I'd like to hear your interpretations, opinions, and thoughts! Thank you!

Sin...

Such a funny little word. To be honest if we are going to look at history as a guideline for how sin and temptation has become rampant, we might as well look at the what Christians considered sin throughout history.

The world is flat, Kill anyone who doesn't want to convert, burn anyone who may be a which, ect ect...

Sin is the estrangement from God. Seperation from God, In my opinion God is love. God is unconditional love, everything else that people freak out about is fear. Fear is the oposite of love, hence fear is sin.

Fear brings on doubt and all other kinds of goofy emotions which usually get us into trouble.

See to me, romans 14 is more about problematic things like alcohol and food addictions. Don't eat vast amounts of food in front of someone who is dying because they are over weight just because you want to be a jerk. Don't order a stiff drink at diner when your friend is sitting across from you and is struggling with an addiction...

We get our panties in a twist because a woman wears a bikini, what would we say in the garden of eden?

I don't understand how wearing a bikini is a sin, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Celticflower]

How far can we take that logic? Going once again to Romans 14, if I find it acceptable to eat meat, but there's a vegetarian at the table who thinks it's immoral to eat meat, should I still eat meat?

Wouldn't that depend upon whether or not the vegetarian was a "brother or sister in Christ" and if your eating meat tempted them to do the same even if they viewed it as immoral? And what about their views on your eating habits? Should they not eat only vegatables if you eat meat, because you have a problem with those who don't eat meat? Maybe you should both drink water.

I think the passage has more to do with being supportive of another whose faith is not as strong as your own than it does determining what is or is not a sin.

 

[Harry3142]

St. Paul did teach that we have a Christians' Code of Conduct. But it is a code which relies on our accepting the guidance of The Holy Spirit in order to accomplish it:

"So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict what each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law."

"The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness goodness, faithfulness gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other."

This Code of Conduct can be accomplished in any age. Its authority rests with the guidance of The Holy Spirit himself, rather than with rules and regulations.

 

[lisah]

Sin - those things we do that hurt or injure others

That is how I define sin.

Now, that has not changed.
Maybe we are more compassionate and are less apt to stone one another for our sins?

 

[lisah]

Sin...

Sin is the estrangement from God. Seperation from God, In my opinion God is love. God is unconditional love, everything else that people freak out about is fear. Fear is the oposite of love, hence fear is sin.

Fear brings on doubt and all other kinds of goofy emotions which usually get us into trouble.


We get our panties in a twist because a woman wears a bikini, what would we say in the garden of eden?

I don't understand how wearing a bikini is a sin, but that's just my opinion.

We have a slightly different view of sin, but it might work all the same in application.

I agree that Fear opposes Love. But I don't agree that God IS love. I believe we are given the capacity to love so that we may know God and each other.

Oh, and if fear is sin...why is the fear of God mentioned in the bible? What do you think that means?

Wearing a bikini is not a sin...unless causes another to stumble?

 

[Emmy]

Dear ScottyK. I cannot see any harm in using a Computer, but sadly it can be used for wrong or illegal purposes. Using Computers, or eating any food we like, or wearing clothing we like, is alright as long as it does not become stumbling blocks for others. The Law of the Land allows it, and we have no right to forbid it. I was talking about being stumbling blocks for our Christian brethrens. God`s blessings make all the difference, and who would dare to ask for them, if we know they are stumbling blocks? Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[white dove]

Hello!

I might be being a bit of a legalist here, but here goes.

Romans 14 essentially tells us not to put stumbling blocks in the way of our brothers and sisters in Christ. So, if you think something is okay, but someone else sees it as sin, you should not do it in front of them, in the name of love. Romans 14:15 says:

"If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died."

But that's the thing: If people no longer see something like wearing bikinis at the beach as "taboo" or even uncommon enough to deem it as a situation of lust, then how could that be like modifying the definition of sin (to cause a person to stumble) if it not really doing so?



I believe that God's Word is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. It is the cultural norms that do the changing - and in many ways, reverting.

 

[DonaldOrwinRenKern]

We have a slightly different view of sin, but it might work all the same in application.

I agree that Fear opposes Love. But I don't agree that God IS love. I believe we are given the capacity to love so that we may know God and each other.

Oh, and if fear is sin...why is the fear of God mentioned in the bible? What do you think that means?

Wearing a bikini is not a sin...unless causes another to stumble?

When I think about Love and fear I see something that permeates into every aspect of our being. There is a difference between doing things out of fear and doing them out of love. Love is completely unconditional and holds no expectations and judgment. I have spent most of my life feeling lost doing things out of fear.

It's that way with everything in society. we seem to be domesticated the same way we domesticate any other animal. When you are bad there is some form of punishment, when you are good there is some form of reward. Hence we do things only with the expectation to recieve the reward and escape the punishment. We are told what we are supposed to be and how we are supposed to live. In my opinion, we have lost a sense of freedom and applied so much judgment in our lives that we cage ourselves in our own fears.

There are people who will become extremely upset if they see someone in a bikini, they were raised to believe that was wrong and it became part of their truth. On the other hand you may have someone grow up in a beach house in florida who wears a bikini all the time, for them it is normal. Put these two people in a debate on whether it is wrong or right and you will find no end.

It seems to all be relative even in the way many of us read doctrine, you will find something to justify your cause no matter what it is. Let's take murder for example, it is wrong to murder an innocent person, yet most will stand by and pretend it is ok for us to murder a terrorist.

As far as your question about fearing God, I don't know. I know I feared God for a long time usually guided by what other people would tell me he would be agry about. Something didn't sit well with me on the whole fear God thing. Gods love for us is unconditional, he is also omnipotent which means he is in everything... everything means everything, us, the air, the universe (ironically enough, the word universe... one verse, one song, one God) this is all God... So if God is in everything, God is in us. If God is in us and he is all knowing how could we anger him. I mean, is it possible for God to be disappointed in us by the decisions we make if he already knows that is our decision. Is it possible to hurt Gods feelings, I don't think so.

We guide ourselves by the many collection of books in the bible, an amazing collection. I personally am still evolving and believe I will be until the day I die, I don't have any answers and I don't assume that I am right. On the night I had a break down where I had reached ultimate hopelessness, I opened the bible (for the first time in months)

I read this passage.

7Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

It hit me, hard and became my truth. This changed so many aspects of my life and I rejoice the horrible events that lead me to that point. As I stated before, this is my journey and my relationship with God... I no longer fear God, I search for him with my heart open to everyone around me, because I know that God is in everyone and everything... even when they think God is not there he is. I love openly with no expectations, myself and others and every day I try to take a step towards my own understanding and relationship with my fears.

It's a good question... I know that in order to love fully I have to embrace my fears instead of running away from them like I had done for so many years. Facing a fear and embracing it has shown me how powerful our fears are in controlling us. So we must understand the fear in order to take that step in releasing the doubt that comes from it.

I don't know, I try to be understanding when someone has a struggle with something. I also know that the struggle itself is usually attached to something deeper. A woman can wear a bikini by me and it soesn't bother me and I don't feel myself becoming lustful, in fact traveling through the islands many of the beaches had topless local. That kind of thing doesn't do much for me, it's just a part of the body and unless I'm intimate with that person what am I getting out of it... nothing.

On the other hand there was an eighty year old man with a gold thong on and that really disturbed me... is it a sin, probably not... but out of my comfort zone, big time.

I know I was rambling... I think I got my opinion across somewhere in there, if not let me know.

 

[lisah]

I am so glad I asked that question, because your answer is beautiful.

I have had similar experiences, and have found that one must be pliable to some extent. If one is not learning, one is not growing.

I hope to always have questions. There are so many wonderful answers to hear from people. We are all in this together, even when we feel we are alone. It's so nice to affirm that.

(I really am a person of few words, btw. Thus, what I write is often short and choppy.)

 

[mj212murasala]

Paul was writing regarding the eating of meat sacrificed to idols. Paul's view was that, since these other gods don't exist, there is nothing wrong with the meat. However, there were some believers who felt it was wrong. Paul's advice was to not cause the struggle in the fellow believer that comes from seeing someone you view as a spiritual adviser doing something you consider a sin. Because, as Christians, we should be continually building up and encouraging fellow believers, not causing them to stumble.

Therefore, it would follow that if something is not a sin, yet you had previously not done it in order to not cause a fellow believer to stumble, it would now be acceptable if no one was tripped up by it. For example, the fact that Christians as a general rule have no dietary guidelines based on their religion (baring of course cannibalism, gluttony, etc.)

We also have to consider what exactly is sin. It could feasibly be argued that wearing a bikini is sinful. It causes men to lust, question of modesty, etc.

Then there is Paul's idea of Christian freedom. Since we are saved by grace, the law is unnecessary. We are not required to follow a strict set of rules, for no one could, or, as Paul points out, Christ died for nothing. Therefore, according to Paul, if we feel no anxiety about something being a sin, it's ok to do. This, of course, implies a Christian being knowledgeable of Biblical Truth and the guidance it and the Holy Spirit brings. A Christian will follow Christ's statement that the greatest commandment is to love God, and then to love your neighbor. All laws hang on those two commandments.

Finally, we should consider the reasoning for our actions, sin or not. Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should. Might does not always make right. We shouldn't be thinking' "What can can I get away with so I'm not sinning." Instead, our thoughts should be, "How will what I am considering doing glorify God?" Because that is the true goal of a Christian, not to not sin, but to bring glory to God.