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Yes I did Paul says as much to keep tradition, the Bible alone has given the world a mess
Yes I did Paul says as much to keep tradition, the Bible alone has given the world a mess
Still it does not say to use the Bible alone.
In fact it is a modern idea (being in the last few hundreds years) of just "the Bible and me" where the individual is the authority on what they understand the Bible to mean
And you can say that, as a Evangelical you can say the Bible says anything and can never be wrong because it's your interpretation. The Beauty (or ugliness depending how you see it) of being Evangelical is that your always right and free to do as you choose because your the only authority that matters. Tomorrow I can say the Bible tells me to start a new Religion, Denomination, what have you and no one could tell me I am wrong because it is me and the Bible alone.And it does not say to use anything else, does it? No. So we cannot move casually from saying what you did to the supposed alternative--
'If the Bible does not say to use it alone, then we'll use this and this and this and this.'
Does that make any sense? Where would the justification for whatever is chosen come from?
But wait. I maintain that the Bible DOES say to use it alone.
It says repeatedly that it is from God (the alternatives have never been shown to be from God; there's just a claim that they must be) and that it is of the highest worth. Now I ask you, if it is of the highest worth, doesn't that mean that there is nothing else that is its equal or above it?? Of course it does.
There is no such animal as "the Bible alone is our guide" it is a myth, it's all about the individualHold it. You just moved the goal posts and I must ask you to ask one question at a time. We were discussing whether or not the Bible Alone is our guide. Now you are saying that the individual should or should not interpret it. Those are two entirely different issues.
If I ask what goes into an apple pie and maintain that it's apples and not oranges, do you then answer that some people don't like pie??
The Bible does testify to its own value. Now, if some individuals misunderstand what it is saying, that doesn't change the value of the Bible up or down in the least, not any more than if a person were to say that the first amendment to the US Constitution forbade the use of sugar. The Constitution is still the same, even when someone or other doesn't understand it, right? What's more, it's not because of Bible Alone that individuals have the ability to interpret the Scriptures. The Reformation held that the individual should be allowed to have access to the Bible. Does that seem wrong to you? It DID NOT say that everything that everyone came up with after reading it was true.
Yes I did Paul says as much to keep tradition, the Bible alone has given the world a mess
There is no such animal as "the Bible alone is our guide" it is a myth, it's all about the individual
And you can say that, as a Evangelical you can say the Bible says anything and can never be wrong because it's your interpretation.
The Beauty (or ugliness depending how you see it) of being Evangelical is that your always right and free to do as you choose because your the only authority that matters.
Tomorrow I can say the Bible tells me to start a new Religion, Denomination, what have you and no one could tell me I am wrong because it is me and the Bible alone.
Many of you may hate the Traditional Churches
I am not saying it isn't. I am saying the Bible alone stuff is a myth because each person can tell themselves what the Bible says, it is all about the individual and no one can tell the individual what to do. It's systemic in society and parts of Christianity making one self their boss setting up their own "Holy Tradition" making themselves the active authority.What can I say in reply to a flat non-recognition of one of Christianity's most basic concepts? It should not be necessary to argue that the Bible is the Christian religion's sacred book.
I'm sure you could do that and no one would jail you for it. What's your point? Am I supposed to believe, automatically, that your new religion is true and correct? Not likely.
Why should anyone believe you their interpretation is just as valid as yours. No one can tell another they are wrong when the only use the Bible alone
And you can believe that and no one can say your wrong because it is you who interpret the Bible and use yourself as the active authority with your experience and ideas in looking at Scripture. That's the thing about Protestantism, Evangelicalism, or whatever one wants to call themselves you are your own boss. In that their is no greater authority then self.I have the opposite view
Scripture is authoritative
It means what it says
Those who practice sin die
Those with sin go to hell
Definite
Sieben said:I have the opposite view
Scripture is authoritative
It means what it says
Those who practice sin die
Those with sin go to hell
Definite
Exactly. Said much better than I couldThe flaw with that is that no matter what anybody says, scripture is always being interpreted. We interpret it through our past church experiences (or lack thereof), through how we were raised, what kind of socio-economic environment we live (and have lived) in, our political persuasions, et al.
So many times I've heard people say "I'm just taking Scripture for what it says" but what they're saying it says is riddled with their own interpretation. It's in inevitable. We all have our lenses.
The flaw with that is that no matter what anybody says, scripture is always being interpreted.
Albion said:Then what you are describing is the flaw in everything we think we know from whatever source. Yet those who doubt scripture always are trying to sell us on some alternative that's of human origin. Can you explain why this would be better?
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