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Should we call the Holy Spirit "He' instead of "it"?

RDKirk

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We need to be approach everything gentle as doves and wise as serpents but too often the church's response seems as gentle as a serpent and as wise of a dove which only separates and pushes people away.

As a side note, the phrase "wise as a serpent" refers to the fact that a serpent keeps its eyes open and its mouth shut. It's the same reasoning for the phrase "wise as an owl," because compared to other birds, it sees everything but speaks rarely.
 
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Tortex Plectrum

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I wasn't responding to your post. You were not even the person I quoted.

Oh, yeah. I see that now. I was a little hasty and my eyes played a trick on me. Nevertheless, what I said about your post is true, and you've just backed me up on it: your post (#74) is a non-answer to my post.
 
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RDKirk

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Oh, yeah. I see that now. I was a little hasty and my eyes played a trick on me. Nevertheless, what I said about your post is true, and you've just backed me up on it: your post (#74) is a non-answer to my post.

My post was, then, a "non-answer" to every other post in all of these forums except the specific one I quoted.
 
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Tortex Plectrum

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My post was, then, a "non-answer" to every other post in all of these forums except the specific one I quoted.
Yeah. You really need to step-up your game! Next time, try to make your post more, uh, one-size-fits-all, or universally applicable.
 
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DamianWarS

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As a side note, the phrase "wise as a serpent" refers to the fact that a serpent keeps its eyes open and its mouth shut. It's the same reasoning for the phrase "wise as an owl," because compared to other birds, it sees everything but speaks rarely.
what I find interesting are serpents and doves are very contrasted animals. Where one is seen as wise, even to cunning levels, the other is seen as dumb and simple. one is aggressive the other is gentle. But calling a serpent gentle and a dove wise seems not very well thought out. The serpent also is seen as a symbol of sin and the other a symbol of peace. I've lived in developing African and developing Asian regions and although different culturally one thing that is similar is doves are kept as pets but if you see a snake you get a group and hunt it down until its dead. I think the contrast Christ makes is deliberate to obvious levels.
 
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Clare73

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What you just wrote is not even a sentence, since you have no subject. Your word, "asinine," is an adjective; it is not a noun, and it is not a substantive.
You have no subject, so you have no sentence.
Teaching a new form of grammar these days?
Methinks thou wast day dreaming the day this part of grammar was taught.
 
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RDKirk

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It uses the word Spirit.

As you've been told, that is the case in your English translation. That is not the case in every English translation, and it's not the case in translations to every other language.

English happens to have two words for the same concept because the Angles were lousy fighters.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Which text?

I thought it was obvious that, in context, we are talking Luke 1:35


The word is ἅγιον (hagion). The word that most literally translates that is the English word "holy".

And, again: the KJV text does, indeed, say "holy thing". Also elementary.

And also irrelevant.

And, again: there is absolutely nothing wrong with the KJV saying "holy thing".

I didn't say there was. I pointed out that "thing" isn't in the text (of Luke 1:35, just so we're clear). The word is just ἅγιον.

Adding words like "thing" or "one" or "child" are words added in translation for the thought to make sense in English.

A literal translation of καὶ τὸ γεννώμενον ἅγιον κληθήσεται υἱὸς θεοῦ would be something like "and the holy which is born from you shall be called God's Son". This, however, fails because while we can tell from context that the thing being called "holy" is Mary's child, but this is clunky. Hence why translators clean up the translation by making it less clunky: "and the holy thing/child/one/etc which is born from you shall be called God's Son" makes the construction less clunky, the meaning of the Greek is faithfully retained, etc.

I don't have a problem with the KJV translators adding the word "thing" here. Just as I don't have a problem with other translations adding "one" or "child". It's all perfectly fine.

But Luke 1:35 doesn't have that word "thing" or any other noun for which the adjective ἅγιον applies. It's not needed in the Greek here, but English benefits from having a noun added to make the grammar better for English readers. And "thing" is about as generic of a noun one can get--to that end, kudos to the translators of the KJV on that; but it's still a word added for the sake of translation.

No argument about the use of "thing" here can depend upon Luke 1:35, because it is completely absent from the [Greek] text of Luke 1:35.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Tortex Plectrum

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It uses the word Spirit.

Yeah. It also uses the word, "Ghost".

For example, John 14:26:
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

If that bothers you, it shouldn't. You shouldn't let it bother you. One thing I often remind myself is that we, being Christians, ought to never let worldly, pagan culture, with all their rank, God-hating stupidities and superstitions, shape and control our use of our language. I mean, should we also refuse to pray what Jesus told us to pray—"Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name..."—just because Satan has misused that perfectly good, old, English word in naming one of the ridiculous farce "holidays" he has instituted among men for the purpose of further debasing the morality of fallen man?

Now, don't get me wrong, though. I'm certainly not intending for you to get some idea that I think you absolutely should use the phrase, "Holy Ghost," and that you would be in error in refusing to do so. I'm just saying that, when you really stop to think about it, there is nothing wrong with using it. It's just that it is merely a matter of personal taste, rather than moral obligation.
 
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Clare73

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"Halloween" didn't come from Satan.

Hallow-een is the eve of All Hallows (deceased saints; i.e., spirits) Day.

It is the correct name for the day before All Hallows Day.
 
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Tortex Plectrum

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"Halloween" didn't come from Satan.

The word, "Halloween"? Did I say that the word, "Halloween," came from Satan? No. I did not.

Hallow-een is the eve of All Hallows (deceased saints; i.e., spirits) Day.

It is the correct name for the day before All Hallows Day.

So, according to you, it would be wrong—incorrect—to not refer to any day by this word, "Halloween"? The day that the superstitious rubes call "Halloween," I, for one, just call "31 October". Is it incorrect for me to not participate in such foolishness as that pointless referring to certain days by certain, special names? Are you saying there is a moral imperative for everybody to call a certain day, "Halloween"?
 
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Clare73

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The word, "Halloween"? Did I say that the word, "Halloween," came from Satan?
I give up. . .did you?
I give up. . .am I?
 
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Tortex Plectrum

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I give up. . .did you?

Instead of giving up, you should have just read the next sentence I wrote after having written that question—you know, the sentence that (for whatever motive) you decided to not include in your quotation from my post; the sentence in which I already answered that question.

I give up. . .am I?
I don't know. See, that's why I asked you. I wonder why you can't just answer the question.
 
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Tortex Plectrum

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I wasn't responding to your post. You were not even the person I quoted.
I think I just solved the problem which facilitated my making that embarrassing mistake. I discovered that you can disable certain categories of notifications, and have now disabled those notifications which would tell me that someone responded to someone else's post in a thread in which I've posted (for which notifications I can't imagine I'd ever even come close to having a use). Man, I, personally, can't think of a dumber default setting than to have that particular notification switched on.

Sorry. Kind of a mundane thing to point out to a complete stranger.
 
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ViaCrucis

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The word, "Halloween"? Did I say that the word, "Halloween," came from Satan? No. I did not.

Hallowe'en, the Eve before the Feast of All Saints, is a Christian observance. It has nothing to do with the devil--neither the name nor the day itself.


I think the point is that Hallowe'en is part of the Western Christian observance known as the triduum of [All]Hallowstide: All Hallow's Eve (Hallowe'en), All Hallows Day ([All]Hallowmas or All Saint's Day), and All Soul's Day.

If you don't want to partake in the modern secular activities that are today associated with Halloween, no one is going to force you. But there's nothing wrong with dressing up in costumes, going trick-or-treating, or making fun of the spooktacular.

This is like calling people "superstitious rubes" for going on dates on the Feast Day of St. Valentine.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Tortex Plectrum

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Hallowe'en, the Eve before the Feast of All Saints, is a Christian observance. It has nothing to do with the devil--neither the name nor the day itself.

A "Christian" observance of what?

I think the point is that Hallowe'en is part of the Western Christian observance known as the triduum of [All]Hallowstide: All Hallow's Eve (Hallowe'en), All Hallows Day ([All]Hallowmas or All Saint's Day), and All Soul's Day.

Where do you find any of that mumbo jumbo in the Bible? It's not in the Bible, so it has nothing to do with Christianity.

If you don't want to partake in the modern secular activities that are today associated with Halloween, no one is going to force you.

Oh, thanks for the clearance on that.

But there's nothing wrong with dressing up in costumes, going trick-or-treating, or making fun of the spooktacular.

There's nothing wrong with dressing up like devils and devil-worshipers and pretending to threaten mischief against those who do not give you something you demand they give you gratis?

This is like calling people "superstitious rubes" for going on dates on the Feast Day of St. Valentine.

No; it is like calling people "superstitious rubes" for going on dates on February 14 when they are motivated to do so by the fact that the superstitious rubes call February 14 "the Feast Day of St. Valentine".
 
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Clare73

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The question:

"So, according to you, it would be wrong—incorrect—to not refer to any day by this word, "Halloween"?

The answer:

Strawman.
 
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Tortex Plectrum

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The question:

"So, according to you, it would be wrong—incorrect—to not refer to any day by this word, "Halloween"?

The answer:

Strawman.

Since it is a yes/no question I asked you, until you either have answered it in the affirmative or have answered it in the negative, you will continue in your failure to have answered it. Reacting to it by saying "Strawman," is not answering it. Apparently it is not clear to you what a strawman is, because, to ask someone a question regarding their position on some issue is to invite them to represent their position so that the one asking the question can then attack their position rather than attack a strawman thereof. But, apparently, according to your calculation, you will embarrass yourself either way, whether you answer my question in the affirmative or answer it in the negative; and so, you choose to stonewall against it, instead of to answer it. Of course, you have ended up embarrassing yourself, anyway, by your compulsion to stonewall against it.

So, try again: According to you, would it be wrong—incorrect—to not refer to any day by the word, "Halloween"? Yes or No?

According to you, would it be wrong—incorrect—to not refer to 31 October by the word, "Halloween"? Yes or No?
 
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