Should that disciple have begged for mercy from Jesus when he threw over tables at th

[Bluelion]

Should the disciples have interceded on be half of the wicked people which brought God's wrath. Namely those at the temple who were turned it into a den of thieves.

Let me say I am not questioning Jesus actions. But Jesus intercedes on our behalf before The Father. Would it had been right to beg Jesus for mercy for those who had brought down His wrath? would this be truly following Jesus? Would this have please the Lord?

I am not questioning the disciples either they are far better men than I will ever be. I like to think what i should do. I try to please God. What is the correct answers? Scripture would be great, like Abraham interceded on behalf of sodom.

I don't know if i could ever intercede on any ones behalf before the Lord. It doesn't feel right. With Jesus, but Stephen interceded with his murders asking God to forgive them. I would be terrified to shout out to the Lord at that moment Lord have mercy. any ideas?

 

[classicalhero]

No, because Jesus was exposing their sin and the fact that they had made a mockery of worshipping God. Also this wasn't a life and death issue, like the one you described with Abraham.

 

[Bluelion]

No, because Jesus was exposing their sin and the fact that they had made a mockery of worshipping God. Also this wasn't a life and death issue, like the one you described with Abraham.

I like that answer think i'll go with that.

 

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

Would anyone here do what Stephen did back then? Today in the US when it is not very likely you would be stoned after being dragged out of a Church or Synagogue if you knew of a Church that needed rebuking? Or would that be to judgmental?

Is there anyone here who would have rebuked Stephen for what he did? After all didn't he judge them?

" Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it." - This is what he said after preaching for an entire chapter, this is why they murdered him.

 

[Bluelion]

Would anyone here do what Stephen did back then? Today in the US when it is not very likely you would be stoned after being dragged out of a Church or Synagogue if you knew of a Church that needed rebuking? Or would that be to judgmental?

Is there anyone here who would have rebuked Stephen for what he did? After all didn't he judge them?

" Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it." - This is what he said after preaching for an entire chapter, this is why they murdered him.

this is not a debate if stories of the Bible could happen in America. but to answer that God tells us history always repeats. Yes it could happen in America. Homeless get beat on the street every day for being nothing more than homeless happen up here just a few weeks ago a man was beaten for sleeping. He died two weeks later on the street now they are trying to see if it was because of the 4 people who beat him, one of the 4 was a woman. The day is coming when it will happen in America as with Stephen the Bible says so.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

This thread has undergone a clean up. Please stay on topic.

 

[greatnews]

Should the disciples have interceded on be half of the wicked people which brought God's wrath. Namely those at the temple who were turned it into a den of thieves.

Let me say I am not questioning Jesus actions. But Jesus intercedes on our behalf before The Father. Would it had been right to beg Jesus for mercy for those who had brought down His wrath? would this be truly following Jesus? Would this have please the Lord?

I am not questioning the disciples either they are far better men than I will ever be. I like to think what i should do. I try to please God. What is the correct answers? Scripture would be great, like Abraham interceded on behalf of sodom.

I don't know if i could ever intercede on any ones behalf before the Lord. It doesn't feel right. With Jesus, but Stephen interceded with his murders asking God to forgive them. I would be terrified to shout out to the Lord at that moment Lord have mercy. any ideas?

Jesus was the one that told the disciples what to do, and Jesus is and was and will always be king of Israel and the world, so he can do what he wants to, it was his place, and he is God

 

[Bluelion]

Jesus was the one that told the disciples what to do, and Jesus is and was and will always be king of Israel and the world, so he can do what he wants to, it was his place, and he is God

Never said He could not but was referring to what is expected of us, after all Abraham did beg Jesus to spare Sodom knocked him all the way down to just 10 righteous people. This was seen as a righteous act by Abraham, he was truly acting like Jesus who is our mediator between us and the Father. so that is what I was referring to.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Should the disciples have interceded on be half of the wicked people which brought God's wrath. Namely those at the temple who were turned it into a den of thieves.

Do you mean to redefine "Master"("Lord Lord")? I don't think you do , but I don't think you know what you are asking.... The disciples were always corrected by Jesus if they ever said or did anything(like cut off an ear, or worry(he told them"oh ye of little faith", remember?)) not obedient to Him.

Let me say I am not questioning Jesus actions. But Jesus intercedes on our behalf before The Father. Would it had been right to beg Jesus for mercy for those who had brought down His wrath? would this be truly following Jesus? Would this have please the Lord?

No (x3)

I am not questioning the disciples either they are far better men than I will ever be. I like to think what i should do. I try to please God. What is the correct answers? Scripture would be great, like Abraham interceded on behalf of sodom.

You can't pick and choose Scripture(though most everyone does) then decide what to do, no. - I mean He doesn't just give us a list of rules and say "here, live by them" (that never worked!(to create 'right ruling'/'right living'). As it is written - "spend a lot of time with ABBA, then Do what He says to Do, Speak as He Speaks. LISTEN TO HIM.... for real, every day, all day. (abide in Him - HIS DOING, His Accomplishment; our willingness, our joyful and carefree(with abandon(trust)) obedience)

I don't know if i could ever intercede on any ones behalf before the Lord. It doesn't feel right. With Jesus, but Stephen interceded with his murders asking God to forgive them. I would be terrified to shout out to the Lord at that moment Lord have mercy. any ideas?

It is written "I(Yhwh Elohim(He's only called "God" in english, never in Hebrew Scripture)) looked from heaven to see if there was anyone among men to intercede for the people, and there was no one, not one."... Stephen prayed for his executioners, obediently, radiantly!(his face shown with God's Glory), but Stephen could not take away their sin.

Abba's ideas,in Y'shua! ,(salvation, mercy, grace, judgment, discipline justice)
jeff

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Any disciple of Jesus will do the same as Stephen, today, tomorrow, any day.
ALL of those sent by Yhwh speak what Yhwh says to speak. The disciples in the NT(and following) times are command/instructed to judge righteously - not their own judgment - not judging by what can be seen or heard or felt, but with THE SAME AS JESUS judgment (which, of course, can only be done if given by JESUS, and/or/also IF abiding in YHWH in Jesus.(with the knowledge and wisdom and justice and righteousness given by Him.) ... ... (remember, YHWH IS ALIVE and talks daily with(no, not usually out loud!) and teaches(according to Scripture) everyone who loves Truth who is willing to obey Him no matter what)

Why would anyone 'rebuke' Stephen ??? -- He did exactly what a disciple does and should do. He did what Jesus did, and would do. That is what a disciple/follower of Jesus is supposed to do.(rare in this world btw)

Would anyone here do what Stephen did back then? ... ... ...

Is there anyone here who would have rebuked Stephen for what he did? After all didn't he judge them?
.....

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It has happened in the usa. People have for a century or longer in the usa been oppressed, arrested, threatened, harassed, beaten, tortured, and executed for their faith in Jesus. (not exactly in the news, is it? - it won't be, not openly). It is of course much better known in other countries than here, there is still very little published here in the usa about it -- it's 'covered up' ... how about that ! ?

It is of course much better known in the usa that there are homeless people, and poor needing help ... ... ..
it is hardly ever admitted when they are homeless or need help because of their faith and because of oppression by or neglect by churches.

Pray for the peace of Jerusalem! and Return quickly Master Jesus to execute JUSTICE, yes, come quickly!

this is not a debate if stories of the Bible could happen in America. but to answer that God tells us history always repeats. Yes it could happen in America. Homeless get beat on the street every day for being nothing more than homeless happen up here just a few weeks ago a man was beaten for sleeping. He died two weeks later on the street now they are trying to see if it was because of the 4 people who beat him, one of the 4 was a woman. The day is coming when it will happen in America as with Stephen the Bible says so.

 

[Bluelion]

It is written "I(Yhwh Elohim(He's only called "God" in english, never in Hebrew Scripture)) looked from heaven to see if there was anyone among men to intercede for the people, and there was no one, not one."... Stephen prayed for his executioners, obediently, radiantly!(his face shown with God's Glory), but Stephen could not take away their sin.

Abba's ideas,in Y'shua! ,(salvation, mercy, grace, judgment, discipline justice)
jeff

I think you get my point. If we are truly acting and doing as Jesus did then we should intercede and pray for people.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

you don't seem to get the point of Jesus' instructions to us / all His disciples ..
there's not a rule - "pray for people" or "intercede" ...

yes, As Jesus does, as He always did, He obeyed ABBA.

sometimes He prayed for people, and He intercedes for those ABBA says to.
always as ABBA says to, and who, and when, and where.

other times, He throws/ threw people out. He did as ABBA did, He does as ABBA does,
as we are supposed to do if we are His. We do as ABBA does, we speak as ABBA speaks - intercede when ABBA says intercede. pray always, and pray for people when ABBA says to, and for whom ABBA says to.

and when ? if ABBA says throw people out, then throw them out! (this is in Scripture; what ABBA says to do is ALWAYS in line with Scripture, all of Scripture.)

I think you get my point. If we are truly acting and doing as Jesus did then we should intercede and pray for people.

 

[Bluelion]

you don't seem to get the point of Jesus' instructions to us / all His disciples ..
there's not a rule - "pray for people" or "intercede" ...

yes, As Jesus does, as He always did, He obeyed ABBA.

sometimes He prayed for people, and He intercedes for those ABBA says to.
always as ABBA says to, and who, and when, and where.

other times, He throws/ threw people out. He did as ABBA did, He does as ABBA does,
as we are supposed to do if we are His. We do as ABBA does, we speak as ABBA speaks - intercede when ABBA says intercede. pray always, and pray for people when ABBA says to, and for whom ABBA says to.

and when ? if ABBA says throw people out, then throw them out! (this is in Scripture; what ABBA says to do is ALWAYS in line with Scripture, all of Scripture.)

no I don't think you understand. Did God tell Abraham to intercede? It was Abraham following Gods comandment to Love every one as Him self that caused Him to intercede. He was in fact doing as God commanded, He was loving everyone as himself. What person would not speak out to try to save themselves from destruction.

So if the disciples who saw Jesus so angry, They should have fallen to Jesus feet and begged, because they would beg for themselves if Jesus anger was at them. If they were loving there neighbor as them self they should have begged. Not saying i could have or would have, but there is a lesson in there. I think I have my answer to my question, thanks.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

There is a time to pray, and a time not to pray for someone - obey ABBA, be as He Is, think as He Thinks - "bringing every thought and imagination into subjection in Y'shua HaMashiach..." . "full of joy and truth" "grace and truth" --willingly, trusting, joyfully, with abandon(no fear, no worry, total trust)...

1 john 5:16
English Standard Version
"If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that."



Jeremiah 7:16-18

Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

Do Not Pray for Judah

16 “As for you, do not pray for these people. Do not offer a cry or a prayer on their behalf, anddo not beg Me, for I will not listen to you. 17 Don’t you see how they behave in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? 18 The sons gather wood, the fathers light the fire, and the women knead dough to make cakes for the queen of heaven,[a] and they pour out drink offerings to other gods so that they provoke Me to anger.

 

[Bluelion]

There is a time to pray, and a time not to pray for someone - obey ABBA, be as He Is, think as He Thinks - "bringing every thought and imagination into subjection in Y'shua HaMashiach..." . "full of joy and truth" "grace and truth" --willingly, trusting, joyfully, with abandon(no fear, no worry, total trust)...

1 john 5:16
English Standard Version
"If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that."



Jeremiah 7:16-18

Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

Do Not Pray for Judah

16 “As for you, do not pray for these people. Do not offer a cry or a prayer on their behalf, anddo not beg Me, for I will not listen to you. 17 Don’t you see how they behave in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? 18 The sons gather wood, the fathers light the fire, and the women knead dough to make cakes for the queen of heaven,[a] and they pour out drink offerings to other gods so that they provoke Me to anger.

Right I agree if they are worshiping false Gods then we should stay out of, but I always agree with The Father.

I see your point there is a time for everything. But does this applies to those in the temple, there sin was greed and making money off God. Now I can think of many preachers today which make money off the Lord, So they have in fact turn Gods House into a den of Thieves? This is a very fruit full exchange we have going on here, I am seeing all kinds of things from this one act Jesus did. Do you see what I mean though?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

yes,
yes

 

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

Why would anyone 'rebuke' Stephen ??? -- He did exactly what a disciple does and should do. He did what Jesus did, and would do. That is what a disciple/follower of Jesus is supposed to do.(rare in this world btw)

Because he was judging. I agree with what he did, look at my name. But some people hypocritically judge others for judging. I have even ran into many people who judged me for judging, lied and said they didn't judge me when I pointed out their hypocrisy, called me a liar when I told them what they said, ect. ect. (This happens a lot when I confront people who use improper hermeneutics and take Matthew 7:1 out of context...ignore the next five verses as well verses 15-20 and much of scripture including what Stephen did.)

We are to rebuke and reprove with longsuffering and doctrine. Stephen did this. But if someone where to do that today many "Christians" would be telling the person acting like Stephen that he isn't being Christ like. Speaking of which check out the pic in my signature.

Anyways no one should rebuke Stephen but there are people who would.