Should I Sing in a Concert for the LGBT Movement?

MournfulWatcher · Feb 19, 2019

FireDragon76 said:
It sounds like a difficult situation but you should know if you are involved in music, especially choir, you are going to encounter many gay people and people who are gay allies, most of whom are going to expect a certain level of acceptance, perhaps a great deal. If you really have a problem with working with gay people and supporting them, then you need to find other activities or careers.

Other than that, what Plover Wring said is good advice, as well as what Solomon said about nuance.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with participation, but you have to be convinced in the end.

I'm not afraid of working with gay people. I've had friends and classmates who are gay since middle school. I used to be an art major before I decided to go into education, so I knew and worked with a lot of gay people in there. They're just people. I have always been open about my christianity, so there was one occasion where I was asked about my beliefs about homosexuality, and I simply stated that the issue was too sensitive for me and I didn't want to discuss it. My qualms with this particular situation is that I'm singing for an organization I don't agree with, singing lyrics that are hostile to my beliefs, and wearing colors in celebration of LGBT.

MournfulWatcher · Feb 19, 2019

jason_delisle said:
Here is a devotional I wrote for one of my seminary classes that may be helpful.

Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it.” (Matthew 16:24-25)

It should come as no surprise that we live in a fallen world which has waged war with God. The message of the Gospel is offensive because it exposes people of their sin and godly living has become a beacon that shines on those who wish to remain in darkness. However, rather than fleeing, the fallen seem more persistent in snuffing out the light which exposes them. The ever-growing pressures to conform to an ever-shifting secular moral standard has left many Christians feeling as though they are living in Babylon, given a choice to either bow to the golden statue of conformity or thrown into the fiery furnace of public opinion. Unfortunately, I admit that there were far too many occasions where I threw away perfect opportunities to share the love of Christ only bow to the idol of public opinion out of fear of upsetting the status quo. Decisions that I regret to this day.

Jesus instructed us to “take up our cross” and follow Him. I am sure we have all probably heard this passage referenced after one's lamenting of some troubling situation to profess their piety as they are dutifully bearing their burdens. They say “This is the cross I have to bear.” But is that what Jesus meant in Matthew 16:24 when He commanded us to “Take up your cross and follow me”?

Today, many Christians look to the cross as a symbol of the Gospel. A symbol which represents the love, grace, and forgiveness that Jesus exhibited when He offered Himself as the Holy and unblemished ‘Lamb of God' who sacrificed Himself for the atonement of our sins. However, during Jesus' ministry, the cross was not the symbol that we as Christians cherish today. Instead, it represented death, suffering, and humiliation. It was common for Rome to force convicted criminals to carry their execution device through a gauntlet of shame. To be mocked and insulted on the way to their inevitable death.

In light of these details, Jesus’ command to His followers had a much darker and humbling meaning. It was a command to endure the hardships and suffering that comes with discipleship. To follow Jesus down a path of persecution, judgment, and mockery that would lead to our inevitable death! Jesus always followed this command by clarifying that "For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it." (Matt. 16:25). This statement was considered to be outrageous to the thousands of followers who had expected Jesus to be the conquering Messiah promised through the covenant He made with David (2 Sam. 7). They believed Jesus to be the one to overthrow the Roman oppression, establish a new era for Jerusalem, and bring an end to their suffering. Here is Jesus commanding His followers to endure more hardship? As you would expect, the crowds began to turn against Him quickly, and all but a devoted few abandoned Him entirely.

Jesus’ message was clear that there is a burden that we must carry if we are to follow Him. Jesus promised that we would experience persecution (John 15:20) and Paul confirmed this when he told Timothy that "Everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,” (2 Tim. 3:12). This is a stark reality for many Christians around the world where many thousands are martyred every year (Withers 2018). Fortunately, Christians in the United States are blessed with the freedoms to worship God with relatively little risk of persecution. However, would you be willing to endure a similar fate? Are you willing to give up friends, family, and relationships to follow Christ? Are you willing to risk your careers and financial stability to follow Christ? Are you willing to lose my life as a result of my faithfulness to Christ?

Although salvation is a gift of God that is given to us freely, following Christ comes at the cost of everything. We are commanded to "Die to Self" by the complete and absolute surrender of all of our being to the will of God. Paul explains that our bodies are not our own because they were bought with a price (1 Cor. 6:19-20).

In spite of the burden that we must bear as disciples of Jesus Christ, we can have peace knowing that the cross we carry is light (Matt. 11:30) because he himself bore our sins on His cross (1 Peter 2:24). Even though we live in a fallen world, we can have peace because Jesus has overcome the world (John 16:33) and rejoice in our suffering knowing that one day where God will wipe every tear from our eyes and there will be no more death, mourning, crying, pain (Rev. 21:4). For this reason, we should no longer live in fear of persecution by hiding the love of God behind a mask. Fear and shame is a burden that we are no longer required to carry so cast them onto the Cross of Jesus and let His love pour out through you and onto the world without fear or hesitation.

Withers, Paul. 2018. “Christians are Most Persecuted Religion in the World – Reveals New Report”. Express, June 22, 2018. Christians are MOST persecuted religion in the world - reveals new report

Thank you so much for sharing this, it's very encouraging to me.

MournfulWatcher · Feb 19, 2019

RaymondG said:
This is an interesting dilemma. I believe you put too much thought into it....and because of this..my thoughts have been altered. Had this been a situation, where you were just curious about doing something you wished not to do for personal reasons or fear of how the church or God would view it, I would say: You need not worry and do not have to do anything you dont want to do. God knows your desires and will give them to you...... prepare to do your job, and God will make a way of escape...... He will make it where you couldnt perform even if you wanted to........maybe you lose your voice that day....or was called in for work.....or have to attend another mandatory engagement.

But this seems to go further than the desire to not do something.....you are considering the "sins" of others, and deciding whether or not you should support someone because of their "sins." Now this needs a little more consideration.

1st. you have a scholarship to sing.....you have to ask what are the terms of the scholarship.....and if you now refuse to sing......should you have to give the scholarship back so that one, who will sing whenever needed, can take it along with the support that it brings.

2nd. Does your nonwillingness to sing to support this group of singers extend beyond this concert? Do you avoid all establishments in witch they work or have ownership? Would you demand that churches and other charities not help people in this "sin" or you will not support them as well? If so, you do well... If not, what would be the difference in singing at a support concert and giving your money to charities and businesses that support them?

3rd. We reap what we sow. Right now you are sowing seeds that state, I will not support those in a lifestyle that I believe God hates. When time to reap the harvest....you will not be supported by those who dont agree with your lifestlye or beliefs. What ever business you start will not be supported by all..... maybe you will need medical attention and doctors in that lifestyle may not want to help you. You may need food and not be allowed patronage because the owner supports the lifestlye. Or you may be silenced in church because they found out about sins that you committed which God hates. Are you prepare to have what you do to your neighbors, to be done unto you? If so, then you do well.

Lastly, those who "love gay people" never say "I love gay people." I would switch that statement to something like "I love everyone," if you would like all to believe that you do.

Firstly, thank you for your honesty. It's appreciated.

Secondly, as far as the scholarship goes, I accept that I may lose my scholarship if I choose not to participate. One option that might be looked into if I bring this to the director is putting my scholarship on hold until next semester, after this concert is over.

Thirdly, I believe in supporting gay people. They need love and acceptance like me and you. Also, my unwillingness to sing isn't towards a group of singers, it's for an organization whose values I oppose, and because the words and actions I would be participating in would conflict with my faith.

I am aware that a gay person can choose not to serve me, depending on the service itself. Doctors can't choose who they serve; artists, bakers, etc, etc, can. That's fine. I wouldn't want to be forced to paint a picture of two gay men kissing, and I wouldn't want to force someone to paint a picture of Christ if they didn't want to.

I'm not sure why you think me saying "I love gay people" is a problem. I'm just specifying a group of people that I love. For example, I love Black people, White people, foreigners, immigrants, the disabled, anyone from any group, because I love everyone.

MournfulWatcher · Feb 19, 2019

GingerBeer said:
If I were able to sing well and participate and if the funds go to an organisation to fight against hate crimes against LGBTQ people then I would sing. No one ought to live in fear of violent people who hate one because one is LGBTQ. Jesus did not withdraw from people because they were members of a hated group. He did not withdraw from tax collectors, Samaritans, prostitutes, Pharisees, Sadducees, women, pagans (I am thinking that the women in the region of Tyre was a gentile and likely a pagan). He prayed for them, did miracles for them, helped them, and spoke to them. So I think it is following Jesus example to be supportive of the organisation that wants to end hate crimes against LGBTQ people.

If you look into the organization itself, and what they're trying to achieve, their methods go beyond tying to stop violence against LGBT people. On their website, they say they are against "heteronormativity" , which is the belief that heterosexual relationships are better than others, and that heterosexuality is inherently normal. They also support the idea that there are multiple genders beside male and female, and transgenderism. They want all of these things to be normalized.

Violence against gay people happens and is a tragic issue, and should be stopped. But I don't agree with their methods. Their twitter page is highly critical against those that hold to Biblical views of male and female relationships.

MournfulWatcher · Feb 19, 2019

PloverWing said:
I looked more closely at the web site of the Matthew Shepard Foundation (Home - Matthew Shepard Foundation), and what I see there is that the Foundation is chiefly about opposing anti-LGBT violence in its various forms. That might be something you can support. Even if you believe that same-sex relationships are morally wrong, you probably also believe that beating someone up for being gay is morally wrong. So, if you think of the concert as expressing opposition to anti-gay violence, would you then be able to participate?

(For comparison, I think Islam is mistaken on a number of theological points, but I would absolutely support an organization that opposes anti-Muslim violence. I think atheism is mistaken, but I enthusiastically support full civil rights for atheists. And so on.)

I'll just copy and paste a reply I made to another comment.

If you look into the organization itself, and what they're trying to achieve, their methods go beyond tying to stop violence against LGBT people. On their website, they say they are against "heteronormativity" , which is the belief that heterosexual relationships are better than others, and that heterosexuality is inherently normal. They also support the idea that there are multiple genders beside male and female, and transgenderism. They want all of these things to be normalized.

Violence against gay people happens and is a tragic issue, and should be stopped. But I don't agree with their methods. Their twitter page is highly critical against those that hold to Biblical views of male and female relationships.

In other words, they would view me as the hate they're seeking to eliminate because I believe that heterosexual relationships within marriage is what God intended for humanity. Anything outside of that is sin.

Oldmantook · Feb 19, 2019

I think it is wise for you to also seek some legal counsel. I think law firms such as the American Center for Law & Justice can give you free legal counsel for your situation especially as you are under scholarship as they seek to preserve your individual religious freedoms. Contact them to see if they can help you:
American Center for Law and Justice

MournfulWatcher · Feb 19, 2019

lovelife34 said:
Hey, if I were you, I would sing. I understand where you are coming from and know that homosexuality is a sin, but I don't think it is the right place for you to "take a stand" against it. You mentioned that you have a choir scholarship, therefore you are legally required to uphold certain responsibilities. I can already tell that you know the Truth of God's word. Singing in that Foundation's concert is not going to change that. But not singing will potentially alienate you from your music director/peers, but more importantly, it may affect your choir scholarship. I'm a fairly recent college grad and I understand the conflict we can have w/ the LGBT ideologies, however, with that being said, you have your whole life ahead of you. The Bible says there is a time and place for everything and trust me, God will provide you with opportunities to take a stand, but I feel like this is not a God-opportunity. I could be wrong but I feel like, given the context, you are not in a position to refuse to sing. If you were a music director, and you were the director's colleague, then you could have that power to say, students of certain faiths can abstain from singing if they choose to, but right now, I don't think you have the leverage to do so. You would lose in this situation. I think someone here mentioned the case of the Christian bakers who refused to bake a cake for a gay couple...look at what happened to them. It is not their right to refuse to do their job because they don't agree with an ideology. The same way an atheist baker can't legally refuse to bake a cake for a Christian couple. It takes wisdom and discernment to navigate the current American social/political climate, as a Christian. Discern if it is God telling you not to sing, or if it is your own voice. At the end of the day, you know who you are. God knows who you are. You don't need to prove anything to anyone by not singing. You also mentioned that you have gay friends and "love gay people." It would be really unfortunate to see you misjudged as homophobic or bigoted just for not singing. One key thing is that once you mention Christianity to LGBT people, it can trigger them. You can say I'm a Christian, and they can automatically jump to a conclusion and say, "She's a Christian. She hates gay people." So choosing the right spaces to discuss your faith is important. I pray that God gives you clarity and reveals the right course of action to you. Stay blessed!!!

Thanks for the advice. That's definitely something to take into consideration.

It's frustrating dealing with secular society sometimes. I look at people the way God looks at me; I don't look at the sin and try to see only the person. I know when God looks at me, He divorces me from my sin. I try to look at people like that. It's hard sometimes, though, because the LGBT movement seeks to make homosexuality their whole identity, and they don't want me to see them without that part of themselves.

eleos1954 · Feb 19, 2019

MournfulWatcher said:
I attend a public university and have a choir scholarship there, although I am not a music major. The music director is a Christian and also directs the choir program at a local Methodist church in my town. Today, the director called a meeting for the different university choir classes for some updates, and told us about our next concert near the end of the semester. He said we would be doing a piece called "Considering Matthew Shepard", with the lyrics being a series of poems about the tragic murder of Matthew Shepard, who was killed because he was gay back in 1998.

The director informed us that the concert would raise money for the Matthew Shepard Foundation, an organization which promoted acceptance and inclusion of LGBT people and education to "stop hatred and bigotry. "
In the concert, we would remove our black robes to reveal different color shirts underneath, like a Pride flag.
I'm not sure what to do. I listened to the music and read the lyrics; the music itself is beautifully done and much of the lyrics are also beautiful and heartfelt. But there's certain parts that are difficult for me to swallow. There are parts where the boy is compared to Christ, for example there is a section that is labelled "passion", and a poem about a Westborough Baptist protester that goes like this:

"kreuzige, kreuzige! (translation: crucify, crucify)
A boy who takes a boy to bed?
Where I come from that's not polite
He asked for it, you got that right
The fires of Hell burn hot and red
The only good *redacted* is a *redacted* that's dead
A man and a woman, the Good Lord said
As sure as Eve took that first bite
The fires of Hell burn hot and red
kreuzige, kreuzige!
Beneath the Hunter's Moon he bled
That must have been a pretty sight
The fires of Hell burn hot and red
C’mon, kids, it's time for bed
Say your prayers, kiss Dad good night
A boy who takes a boy to bed?
The fires of Hell burn hot and red
crucify, crucify the light, crucify the light . . ."

I might be able to go along with the concert if it weren't for the fact that we're raising money for an organization that I disagree with on a moral and spiritual level. The director was very passionate about it and is known to have a temper, so I'm afraid to speak to him about wishing to abstain from the concert. A big chunk of the people in the music department are LGBT (I'd say about 40% or so), so I also fear social backlash if people learned why I'm not in the concert. I also fear losing my scholarship and getting kicked out of choir, and the whole thing even getting spread around campus (I go to a very small university), because the Foundation is going to get involved with the whole university.

I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. If I say that I don't want to participate in the concert, I will be accused of disrespecting the dead, or worse, being as hateful as the victim's killers. It will be seen as though I think his death was fine or good because he was gay, and that I think gay people should be harassed and bullied for their orientation. If I go through with the concert, I'll be violating my conscience, and the Truth.

I love gay people; I've had friends come out to me, and I've been very loving to them, because of my love for Christ. And my love for the Living God is very deep; I see Him in the world around me and in his word. I meditate on Him daily. I see Him in the relationship between a husband and wife, a reflection of Christ and the Church, and even as a reflection of God and His relationship with the human soul. This is why the sacrament of marriage between a man and a woman is so dear and sacred to me (although I am not married).

But am I being hateful in some way? I feel guilty for not wanting to sing music about a young man being murdered for his sexual orientation. That's not why I don't want to sing it. But when I take off the robe to show the Pride colors, then it's like I'm saying I embrace homosexuality, and I'm helping to raise money for an organization that would say my beliefs are hateful and should be eliminated.

What should I do? Should I sing or not? Am I overreacting? Please keep me in your prayers.

I'd look at the program as a whole. The words, whether spoken or sung. What is the message in them?

The "poem" you referenced, I find disgusting, I could not and would not even speak these words ... they are the words from a group of people who are, in fact bigoted and vile ... and that along with any violence .. cruel words and actions ... most everyone finds these things totally unacceptable in regard to any people.

It would seem to me the message should be about treating one another with kindness ... all people.

This is what we seem to do all the time .... by singling out or focusing on a specific group(s) of people and when doing so also alienates other groups of people to a certain degree.

We are all people and should be kind to one another ... period ... and that should be the message ..... kindness ... and in respect to all people.

I would think messages and song about kindness would be a better avenue.

Kindness ... isn't that something everyone can support?

Are they positive messages focusing on kindness?

It should be a free concert focusing on kindness.

Kindness overcomes hatred and bigotry with all people.

Went and visited the foundation site and found this:

The Matthew Shepard Foundation’s longstanding mission is to erase hate by replacing it with understanding, compassion and acceptance. Through local, regional and national outreach, we empower individuals to find their voice to create change and challenge communities to identify and address hate that lives within their schools, neighborhoods and homes.

Our work is an extension of Matt’s passion to foster a more caring and just world. We share his story and embody his vigor for civil rights to change the hearts and minds of others to accept everyone as they are.

This is who he was and this is what the concert should be about.

Everyone as they are.

lovelife34 · Feb 19, 2019

MournfulWatcher said:
Thanks for the advice. That's definitely something to take into consideration.

It's frustrating dealing with secular society sometimes. I look at people the way God looks at me; I don't look at the sin and try to see only the person. I know when God looks at me, He divorces me from my sin. I try to look at people like that. It's hard sometimes, though, because the LGBT movement seeks to make homosexuality their whole identity, and they don't want me to see them without that part of themselves.

No problem. Yes, it is! Especially when you attend a secular American college....goodness. xD Reading your thread makes you flashback to a class conversation we had freshman year. Now that I put the pieces together, I am almost 100% sure it was about Matthew Sheppard.... one of my (atheist) classmates/who grew to be my friend later on) talked about how a town member who had the mantra of 'live and let live' had it wrong, because we have to not only "tolerate gay people, but embrace them. " At the time, I questioned that (internally) but I could tell by the atmosphere of the class that everyone agreed... When in reality, no one has to embrace anything they don't agree with. Atheists don't have to embrace The Truth, The Way and the Light, and we don't have to embrace their ideologies, either. But in secular college campuses....you can have your own beliefs, as long as they don't conflict w/ the majority's secular ones...Well yeah, that's the thing, the primary identification as one's sin makes it difficult. If someone was to introduce themselves to you and say, Hey, I'm an adulterer/liar/thief/drunkard/etc, nice to meet you...and constantly talk about their lifestyle and why it's right, what would you think? It's a difficult situation, but I know you will find the right answer!

NW82 · Feb 19, 2019

MournfulWatcher said:
I attend a public university and have a choir scholarship there, although I am not a music major. The music director is a Christian and also directs the choir program at a local Methodist church in my town. Today, the director called a meeting for the different university choir classes for some updates, and told us about our next concert near the end of the semester. He said we would be doing a piece called "Considering Matthew Shepard", with the lyrics being a series of poems about the tragic murder of Matthew Shepard, who was killed because he was gay back in 1998.

The director informed us that the concert would raise money for the Matthew Shepard Foundation, an organization which promoted acceptance and inclusion of LGBT people and education to "stop hatred and bigotry. "
In the concert, we would remove our black robes to reveal different color shirts underneath, like a Pride flag.
I'm not sure what to do. I listened to the music and read the lyrics; the music itself is beautifully done and much of the lyrics are also beautiful and heartfelt. But there's certain parts that are difficult for me to swallow. There are parts where the boy is compared to Christ, for example there is a section that is labelled "passion", and a poem about a Westborough Baptist protester that goes like this:

"kreuzige, kreuzige! (translation: crucify, crucify)
A boy who takes a boy to bed?
Where I come from that's not polite
He asked for it, you got that right
The fires of Hell burn hot and red
The only good *redacted* is a *redacted* that's dead
A man and a woman, the Good Lord said
As sure as Eve took that first bite
The fires of Hell burn hot and red
kreuzige, kreuzige!
Beneath the Hunter's Moon he bled
That must have been a pretty sight
The fires of Hell burn hot and red
C’mon, kids, it's time for bed
Say your prayers, kiss Dad good night
A boy who takes a boy to bed?
The fires of Hell burn hot and red
crucify, crucify the light, crucify the light . . ."

I might be able to go along with the concert if it weren't for the fact that we're raising money for an organization that I disagree with on a moral and spiritual level. The director was very passionate about it and is known to have a temper, so I'm afraid to speak to him about wishing to abstain from the concert. A big chunk of the people in the music department are LGBT (I'd say about 40% or so), so I also fear social backlash if people learned why I'm not in the concert. I also fear losing my scholarship and getting kicked out of choir, and the whole thing even getting spread around campus (I go to a very small university), because the Foundation is going to get involved with the whole university.

I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. If I say that I don't want to participate in the concert, I will be accused of disrespecting the dead, or worse, being as hateful as the victim's killers. It will be seen as though I think his death was fine or good because he was gay, and that I think gay people should be harassed and bullied for their orientation. If I go through with the concert, I'll be violating my conscience, and the Truth.

I love gay people; I've had friends come out to me, and I've been very loving to them, because of my love for Christ. And my love for the Living God is very deep; I see Him in the world around me and in his word. I meditate on Him daily. I see Him in the relationship between a husband and wife, a reflection of Christ and the Church, and even as a reflection of God and His relationship with the human soul. This is why the sacrament of marriage between a man and a woman is so dear and sacred to me (although I am not married).

But am I being hateful in some way? I feel guilty for not wanting to sing music about a young man being murdered for his sexual orientation. That's not why I don't want to sing it. But when I take off the robe to show the Pride colors, then it's like I'm saying I embrace homosexuality, and I'm helping to raise money for an organization that would say my beliefs are hateful and should be eliminated.

What should I do? Should I sing or not? Am I overreacting? Please keep me in your prayers.

Since my previous post was deleted for some odd reason, I think you should pray about it as God can use you in a situation like this should He want to. Outside of that leading, no you shouldn't because it would be supporting and pushing the LGBT platform, when the Bible clearly identified this type of lifestyle as a sin. It would be no different than someone asking you to sing to support a lying group, or to sing support of a murder. The type of sin isn't the issue, the fact this is supporting sin, as you have described it, is the issue.

Natsumi Lam · Feb 19, 2019

MournfulWatcher said:
I attend a public university and have a choir scholarship there, although I am not a music major. The music director is a Christian and also directs the choir program at a local Methodist church in my town. Today, the director called a meeting for the different university choir classes for some updates, and told us about our next concert near the end of the semester. He said we would be doing a piece called "Considering Matthew Shepard", with the lyrics being a series of poems about the tragic murder of Matthew Shepard, who was killed because he was gay back in 1998.

The director informed us that the concert would raise money for the Matthew Shepard Foundation, an organization which promoted acceptance and inclusion of LGBT people and education to "stop hatred and bigotry. "
In the concert, we would remove our black robes to reveal different color shirts underneath, like a Pride flag.
I'm not sure what to do. I listened to the music and read the lyrics; the music itself is beautifully done and much of the lyrics are also beautiful and heartfelt. But there's certain parts that are difficult for me to swallow. There are parts where the boy is compared to Christ, for example there is a section that is labelled "passion", and a poem about a Westborough Baptist protester that goes like this:

"kreuzige, kreuzige! (translation: crucify, crucify)
A boy who takes a boy to bed?
Where I come from that's not polite
He asked for it, you got that right
The fires of Hell burn hot and red
The only good *redacted* is a *redacted* that's dead
A man and a woman, the Good Lord said
As sure as Eve took that first bite
The fires of Hell burn hot and red
kreuzige, kreuzige!
Beneath the Hunter's Moon he bled
That must have been a pretty sight
The fires of Hell burn hot and red
C’mon, kids, it's time for bed
Say your prayers, kiss Dad good night
A boy who takes a boy to bed?
The fires of Hell burn hot and red
crucify, crucify the light, crucify the light . . ."

I might be able to go along with the concert if it weren't for the fact that we're raising money for an organization that I disagree with on a moral and spiritual level. The director was very passionate about it and is known to have a temper, so I'm afraid to speak to him about wishing to abstain from the concert. A big chunk of the people in the music department are LGBT (I'd say about 40% or so), so I also fear social backlash if people learned why I'm not in the concert. I also fear losing my scholarship and getting kicked out of choir, and the whole thing even getting spread around campus (I go to a very small university), because the Foundation is going to get involved with the whole university.

I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. If I say that I don't want to participate in the concert, I will be accused of disrespecting the dead, or worse, being as hateful as the victim's killers. It will be seen as though I think his death was fine or good because he was gay, and that I think gay people should be harassed and bullied for their orientation. If I go through with the concert, I'll be violating my conscience, and the Truth.

I love gay people; I've had friends come out to me, and I've been very loving to them, because of my love for Christ. And my love for the Living God is very deep; I see Him in the world around me and in his word. I meditate on Him daily. I see Him in the relationship between a husband and wife, a reflection of Christ and the Church, and even as a reflection of God and His relationship with the human soul. This is why the sacrament of marriage between a man and a woman is so dear and sacred to me (although I am not married).

But am I being hateful in some way? I feel guilty for not wanting to sing music about a young man being murdered for his sexual orientation. That's not why I don't want to sing it. But when I take off the robe to show the Pride colors, then it's like I'm saying I embrace homosexuality, and I'm helping to raise money for an organization that would say my beliefs are hateful and should be eliminated.

What should I do? Should I sing or not? Am I overreacting? Please keep me in your prayers.

Personally, I would have an issue of the conscious if I participated. Not that I dont love LGBT+ people...it is just that I do not support the lifestyle or functions.

PloverWing · Feb 19, 2019

MournfulWatcher said:
If you look into the organization itself, and what they're trying to achieve, their methods go beyond tying to stop violence against LGBT people. On their website, they say they are against "heteronormativity" , which is the belief that heterosexual relationships are better than others, and that heterosexuality is inherently normal. They also support the idea that there are multiple genders beside male and female, and transgenderism. They want all of these things to be normalized.

Okay, then, your disagreement with the organization is larger than I realized. That puts you in a tough place, and I'm sorry you're having to go through this.

I teach at a state university, and one of the ground rules is that we make allowances for each other's religions as far as possible. So, observant Jewish students will miss class on Yom Kippur without a grade penalty, some students will wear head coverings in class, social gatherings should provide vegetarian options for our Hindu colleagues, and so on. Under that principle, there should be some accommodation for you regarding this concert. I'm not in the performing arts, though, and I'm not involved with scholarships, so I don't know exactly what form this accommodation might take.

I have wondered, actually, about the atheists who are members of choirs in public schools or secular universities, when those choirs sing sacred music. Is it troubling for an atheist to sing "Gloria in Excelsis Deo", and if so, is there some way to opt out? If there's any kind of precedent like that at your school, that would be the precedent to invoke for your case.

As Oldmantook has noted, you may have legal options, but I would recommend quiet personal conversations first. Lawyers are a last resort, not first. If it's clear that you're not trying to hurt or restrict any of your LGBT colleagues, but that your religion keeps you from doing certain activities, maybe your choir director (who is a person of faith himself, you said) can find some kind of accommodation for you.

pinacled · Feb 19, 2019

Have no association with such and You will be greatly rewarded.

MournfulWatcher said:
I attend a public university and have a choir scholarship there, although I am not a music major. The music director is a Christian and also directs the choir program at a local Methodist church in my town. Today, the director called a meeting for the different university choir classes for some updates, and told us about our next concert near the end of the semester. He said we would be doing a piece called "Considering Matthew Shepard", with the lyrics being a series of poems about the tragic murder of Matthew Shepard, who was killed because he was gay back in 1998.

The director informed us that the concert would raise money for the Matthew Shepard Foundation, an organization which promoted acceptance and inclusion of LGBT people and education to "stop hatred and bigotry. "
In the concert, we would remove our black robes to reveal different color shirts underneath, like a Pride flag.
I'm not sure what to do. I listened to the music and read the lyrics; the music itself is beautifully done and much of the lyrics are also beautiful and heartfelt. But there's certain parts that are difficult for me to swallow. There are parts where the boy is compared to Christ, for example there is a section that is labelled "passion", and a poem about a Westborough Baptist protester that goes like this:

"kreuzige, kreuzige! (translation: crucify, crucify)
A boy who takes a boy to bed?
Where I come from that's not polite
He asked for it, you got that right
The fires of Hell burn hot and red
The only good *redacted* is a *redacted* that's dead
A man and a woman, the Good Lord said
As sure as Eve took that first bite
The fires of Hell burn hot and red
kreuzige, kreuzige!
Beneath the Hunter's Moon he bled
That must have been a pretty sight
The fires of Hell burn hot and red
C’mon, kids, it's time for bed
Say your prayers, kiss Dad good night
A boy who takes a boy to bed?
The fires of Hell burn hot and red
crucify, crucify the light, crucify the light . . ."

I might be able to go along with the concert if it weren't for the fact that we're raising money for an organization that I disagree with on a moral and spiritual level. The director was very passionate about it and is known to have a temper, so I'm afraid to speak to him about wishing to abstain from the concert. A big chunk of the people in the music department are LGBT (I'd say about 40% or so), so I also fear social backlash if people learned why I'm not in the concert. I also fear losing my scholarship and getting kicked out of choir, and the whole thing even getting spread around campus (I go to a very small university), because the Foundation is going to get involved with the whole university.

I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. If I say that I don't want to participate in the concert, I will be accused of disrespecting the dead, or worse, being as hateful as the victim's killers. It will be seen as though I think his death was fine or good because he was gay, and that I think gay people should be harassed and bullied for their orientation. If I go through with the concert, I'll be violating my conscience, and the Truth.

I love gay people; I've had friends come out to me, and I've been very loving to them, because of my love for Christ. And my love for the Living God is very deep; I see Him in the world around me and in his word. I meditate on Him daily. I see Him in the relationship between a husband and wife, a reflection of Christ and the Church, and even as a reflection of God and His relationship with the human soul. This is why the sacrament of marriage between a man and a woman is so dear and sacred to me (although I am not married).

But am I being hateful in some way? I feel guilty for not wanting to sing music about a young man being murdered for his sexual orientation. That's not why I don't want to sing it. But when I take off the robe to show the Pride colors, then it's like I'm saying I embrace homosexuality, and I'm helping to raise money for an organization that would say my beliefs are hateful and should be eliminated.

What should I do? Should I sing or not? Am I overreacting? Please keep me in your prayers.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Feb 19, 2019

MournfulWatcher said:
Thank you so much for sharing this, it's very encouraging to me.

You are very welcome. I would probably emphasis that just because you do not condone homosexuality, it doesn't mean you condone violence and oppression of homosexuals.

RaymondG · Feb 19, 2019

A thought just came to mind...... When you sing for other events.....do you research to make sure that the proceeds do not benefit anyone who may be fornicators or adulterers or liars? If so, I admire your zeal to not even appear to support those who "sin." It would be understandable that you believe yourself a supporter of fornication and adulterers if the charity doesn't do background checks on individuals ensuring that these actions are not taking place before issuing support. This now becomes a no brainer.....treat this singing engagement just like you've treated every one before it. No extra thought or attention should be placed on this one....since we believe all sin is sin....

Erik1611 · Feb 19, 2019

This is nonsensical, I implore you to drop choir completely and instead spend time reading the bible and growing your faith and understanding. If you had done this first hand you wouldn't even be questioning others for advice on your issue. You shouldn't fear the disapproval of them or the rest of society but rather fear the disapproval of God. The bible is very clear on the issue of homosexuality and our purpose is to keep and live by God's word.

Blade · Feb 19, 2019

When I was young went to hear two gay people talk.. prayed in the spirit the whole time. If I was asked? No. Does the word say gay is a sin? Yes. ONE will give you a peace

MournfulWatcher · Feb 19, 2019

RaymondG said:
A thought just came to mind...... When you sing for other events.....do you research to make sure that the proceeds do not benefit anyone who may be fornicators or adulterers or liars? If so, I admire your zeal to not even appear to support those who "sin." It would be understandable that you believe yourself a supporter of fornication and adulterers if the charity doesn't do background checks on individuals ensuring that these actions are not taking place before issuing support. This now becomes a no brainer.....treat this singing engagement just like you've treated every one before it. No extra thought or attention should be placed on this one....since we believe all sin is sin....

You're mischaracterizing my motives. I don't mind money going to sinners--i am fully in favor of that! If I wasn't, how could I accept anyone's charity, because I'm a sinner too.

You seem to be asserting that I don't want to participate because it will raise money for people living in a sin I particularly dislike. That's not what I'm saying, nor what I think. There SHOULD be charities devoted to ending violence against gay people. I would be happy to serve that. I am not happy to serve a foundation that wants to normalize LGBT relationships, says my beliefs about godly relationships is evil, pushes a lie that you can choose to be whatever gender you want or even make one up and force society to say whatever pronoun you want, and believes that whoever matches their own description of homophobia should be sent to jail.

This isn't a singing engagement like any other. We've never raised money for a particular organization before. Everyone will have to wear pride colors. I would have the same reaction if we were raising money for an organization that said anyone who disagrees with alcoholism is a bigot that needs to be reeducated and I had to wear colors in support of obsessively drinking alcohol.

Thank you for letting me practice shooting down false assumptions about my motives, though. I'll need to know how to do that if I take this to the director

Ignatius the Kiwi · Feb 19, 2019

You aren't being hateful though some will try to guilt you for doing what you think is right. Personally if I were in your position I might pretend to be sick of find some excuse to be unavailable if I wanted to remain on the choir but didn't want to participate in this thing. I doubt they'll be accepting of your conscience on this matter.

Andrew77 · Feb 19, 2019

MournfulWatcher said:
I attend a public university and have a choir scholarship there, although I am not a music major. The music director is a Christian and also directs the choir program at a local Methodist church in my town. Today, the director called a meeting for the different university choir classes for some updates, and told us about our next concert near the end of the semester. He said we would be doing a piece called "Considering Matthew Shepard", with the lyrics being a series of poems about the tragic murder of Matthew Shepard, who was killed because he was gay back in 1998.

The director informed us that the concert would raise money for the Matthew Shepard Foundation, an organization which promoted acceptance and inclusion of LGBT people and education to "stop hatred and bigotry. "
In the concert, we would remove our black robes to reveal different color shirts underneath, like a Pride flag.
I'm not sure what to do. I listened to the music and read the lyrics; the music itself is beautifully done and much of the lyrics are also beautiful and heartfelt. But there's certain parts that are difficult for me to swallow. There are parts where the boy is compared to Christ, for example there is a section that is labelled "passion", and a poem about a Westborough Baptist protester that goes like this:

"kreuzige, kreuzige! (translation: crucify, crucify)
A boy who takes a boy to bed?
Where I come from that's not polite
He asked for it, you got that right
The fires of Hell burn hot and red
The only good *redacted* is a *redacted* that's dead
A man and a woman, the Good Lord said
As sure as Eve took that first bite
The fires of Hell burn hot and red
kreuzige, kreuzige!
Beneath the Hunter's Moon he bled
That must have been a pretty sight
The fires of Hell burn hot and red
C’mon, kids, it's time for bed
Say your prayers, kiss Dad good night
A boy who takes a boy to bed?
The fires of Hell burn hot and red
crucify, crucify the light, crucify the light . . ."

I might be able to go along with the concert if it weren't for the fact that we're raising money for an organization that I disagree with on a moral and spiritual level. The director was very passionate about it and is known to have a temper, so I'm afraid to speak to him about wishing to abstain from the concert. A big chunk of the people in the music department are LGBT (I'd say about 40% or so), so I also fear social backlash if people learned why I'm not in the concert. I also fear losing my scholarship and getting kicked out of choir, and the whole thing even getting spread around campus (I go to a very small university), because the Foundation is going to get involved with the whole university.

I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. If I say that I don't want to participate in the concert, I will be accused of disrespecting the dead, or worse, being as hateful as the victim's killers. It will be seen as though I think his death was fine or good because he was gay, and that I think gay people should be harassed and bullied for their orientation. If I go through with the concert, I'll be violating my conscience, and the Truth.

I love gay people; I've had friends come out to me, and I've been very loving to them, because of my love for Christ. And my love for the Living God is very deep; I see Him in the world around me and in his word. I meditate on Him daily. I see Him in the relationship between a husband and wife, a reflection of Christ and the Church, and even as a reflection of God and His relationship with the human soul. This is why the sacrament of marriage between a man and a woman is so dear and sacred to me (although I am not married).

But am I being hateful in some way? I feel guilty for not wanting to sing music about a young man being murdered for his sexual orientation. That's not why I don't want to sing it. But when I take off the robe to show the Pride colors, then it's like I'm saying I embrace homosexuality, and I'm helping to raise money for an organization that would say my beliefs are hateful and should be eliminated.

What should I do? Should I sing or not? Am I overreacting? Please keep me in your prayers.

So I'm going to be short quick and blunt.

There is no way... no possible way, that I would sing any song that compares a mere sinful person, to Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living G-d.

Easy enough? No chance I am going to lower Jesus Christ to this. I will not be apart of that.

This is more than merely doing a fund raiser for a guy that was murdered. This dragging the name of Jesus Christ down to being a sinner. No.

My advice? Don't do this. I would have to tell your director that "I can't sing this song, because it is offensive to my faith". He's going to asking you questions, and I would simply refuse to answer.

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