Should I seek a sign or vision.

[BT]

Bizz and I were hijacking a thread that had nothing to do with this.. so I opened this thread to give GEL hers back (before she goes all Jacky Chan on us). Here is the content so far..

Just to name a few signs and whatnot: Moses, Gideon, Aaron, Joseph, Abraham, Jacob, Jesus, Paul, Peter. There are well over a hundred people mentioned in the Bible who saw signs. If I may ask, what do you believe the dangers are?

I don't think that you can use the OT economy to justifiy modern day "signs and visions" nor can you use the holders of the apostolic office as an example of today's gifts. Since the office no longer exists. I don't want to take the thread off-track. Sorry GEL if I did. I would highly recommend NOT telling your friend to "seek a sign or vision"... she'll either be waiting for the rest of her life (since these do not exists) or in the worst case scenario her request will be answered by a demon...

Well, besides the fact that it may not be answered, how can you say it would be answered by a demon? What stops God from doing so?

It's a tricky question and I prefer not to generalize but.. most often those who experience 'signs and visions' in our day are under the influence of demons, we see this due to the nature of the 'signs and visions' which generally contradict the Word of God, or at least are not in-line with it. What stops God from doing so? That's a trick question because God can do whatever He wants, I will answer that, the Word of God (His own revelation) is what stops Him (explains that He does not operate like this) from giving out 'signs and visions' as He once did. I will not say he "can" not, I will say he "does" not.

But how do you account for visions that match up exactly with the word of God, especially repeated ones?

I've never seen or heard of one. You have to be really careful when you start to tinker around with this kind of stuff. Does every vision that comes from another source (Other than God, i.e. demons, or most often our own imaginations) have to be "bad"? No. If I could turn the question around on you I would ask, "How do you account for 'visions' etc. from people in the occult community that come true, or (seem to) line-up with the word of God, especially repeated ones?" That becomes and even more interesting question, that I feel carries the same answer.

(My background:
Satanism, Witchcraft & the Occult, salvation, Charismaticism, Pentecostalism, finally Baptist... I've seen some things in my day... )

God can work through anything actually. But as it is written, "For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. "Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion?" " I don't think that if we truly ask God for something, He will give us something poisonous and evil.

So if you ask God for a million bucks it'll come. Or a new car it'll come. These verses are often used way out of context in this manner. Regardless.. we're really hijacking this thread and GEL is gonna flip.. I'll go open a new one called "Should I seek a sign or vision".. there we can carry on...

 

[eldermike]

I think that all signs were given for the benefit of unbelieving Jews. In fact, even believing gentiles were and are a sign to unbelieving Jews. God isn't going to give you a sign, you are a sign.
RO 11:11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Here are two verses on getting things from prayer (if I missed an important one please post it) Matthew 7:

7"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
9"Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!

Matthew 21:

21Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. 22If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."

So, if we have faith, actually ask, and believe we have received it, we can get anything. These are the only conditions. The same for signs and whatnot. God gives guidance and wisdom to all who ask.

 

[newlite]

when i was little (like 5) i saw something in my room. it was like a red glowly cloud floating in the corner of my room. it freaked me out. i woke my parents up by my screaming. i was like parilized. i still dont know what it was. i was not dreaming. could that of been something like that? a demon or so?

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

when i was little (like 5) i saw something in my room. it was like a red glowly cloud floating in the corner of my room. it freaked me out. i woke my parents up by my screaming. i was like parilized. i still dont know what it was. i was not dreaming. could that of been something like that? a demon or so?

It could have been anything. Since you were that young, it very well could have been just a bad dream.

 

[@@Paul@@]

when i was little (like 5) i saw something in my room. it was like a red glowly cloud floating in the corner of my room. it freaked me out. i woke my parents up by my screaming. i was like parilized. i still dont know what it was. i was not dreaming. could that of been something like that? a demon or so?

I have seen things, I know my mom has and I have talked to many people who have "seen" things.. when they were younger...

It very well could have been... When one dabbles in spiritual things, you get spiritual results. Demons are very real.

Question: Has this happened in your family before? or anyone you know? AND what kind of 'churches' have you been a part of?

 

[ZiSunka]

99.99% of everything we need to know is already revealed to us in the Bible. God RARELY uses signs and visions, so rarely that God actually records them in the Bible as amazing events, not everyday things. He even told us what signs and visions are yet to come. God doles out signs and visions as HE sees fit for HIS purposes, not to amuse or encourage us, but in rare cases, to spur a special person into a special action, or to warn of something coming for which we can and must prepare, like Daniel's visions or John's visions. So don't go trying to conjure up a sign or a vision, or to force God's hand on something. Do what we are already instructed to do and you won't need special revelations, because you'll be too busy and too connected to God to need or want them.

 

[newlite]

i dont know much about that night, but it still freaks me out.

i say i dont need any visions to believe in god though. look around us. thats proof enough. look at the stars or mountains. what else ya need?

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

i dont know much about that night, but it still freaks me out.

i say i dont need any visions to believe in god though. look around us. thats proof enough. look at the stars or mountains. what else ya need?

That's for sure!

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Do what we are already instructed to do and you won't need special revelations, because you'll be too busy and too connected to God to need or want them.

The visions/signs we are talking about are specifically in response to issues that are not discussed in the Bible, or personal help.

 

[Sword-In-Hand]

As for Visions: Proverbs 29:18 - Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he. (KJV)

As for Signs: Matthew 12:38 - Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.

Matthew 12:39 - But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Matthew 16:1 - The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.

Matthew 16:3 - And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

Matthew 16:4 - A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

I believe that God can still does and will give people visions. How He does it of course is solely up to Him. Should we believe ever vision is of God? Of course not, we should test the spirits as it says in:

1st John 4:1 - Beloved do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

As for signs, well it says that a perverse generation will seek for signs, hmmm that doesn't sound like our generation at all does it? Anyway, if God chooses to speak through a vision, test it and always remember that God never says, nor does anything contrary to His Word.

 

[eldermike]

We are a sign to the lost world.

 

[mesue]

For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
1Corinthians 1:22-24