Should I eat breakfast or not?

In the english language 'The house of Jack' means 'The house belongs to Jack'
'The word of God' means 'The word belongs to God', (what we call The Bible does not apply to this description)
Many paintings are inspired by God that does not mean the paintings belong to God. He is not running an art gallery.
The highest authority on earth today is creation - it was a witness of a Creator long before The bible...

Byfaithalone1 said:

Why are you so bent on this particular subject? We've all agreed that Scripture is not the only source of understanding regarding God and His ways. Don't you think you are trying just a tad too hard?

BFA

P.S. To all lurkers, this post will make more sense after you read Post #17 in the "All Religions Are Flawed" thread.

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It really is not fair to embarrass yourself in public.

Byfaithalone1 said:

How could I be embarrassed when I'm following the example of such a fine scholar? It seems that we all have our own "pet topics."

BFA

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If that is the way you see these discussions then I guess that's about it.

StormyOne said:

it is possible to believe that the bible is the highest authority without believing it is inerrant/infallible.... what you have said is you believe that the bible is the highest authority on earth....

Having said that, while that is your belief I would ask why do you believe the bible is the highest authority? Authority for what?

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Your questions are fair ones, Stormy, and I am going to try to give the best answers I can taking into accoutn the limited amount of time that i have. If I had more time, I could think it over better, and give better answers. But I hope the ones I give you now will be good enough!

There are a number of reasons why I would say that they Bible is the highest authority. One reason is that, although the Bible was never intended to be a science text book, a number of scientific facts were stated in the Bible thousands of years before they were discovered by scientists. Just to give two examples, the fact that the air has weight, and that the Earth is floating in space without any visible support. (Job 26:7).

Another reason why I consider the Bible to be an authority is because of its historical accuracy. Again and again and again, archaeology has proved much of the Bible to be true, and has refuted anti-Bible skeptics. I'm not necessarily that every scripture has been proven to be true by archaeology, but no one has ever successfully disproved the historical accuracy a single passage in the Bible.

A third reason why I consider the Bible to be authoriy is because of fulfilled prophecy! For example, in chapters 44 and 45 of the Book of Isaiah, it is prophesied that a man named Cyrus would become the Emperor of a world-ruling empire, and that he would set the Jewish people free from the Babylonian exile, and that he would allow them to return to the Proised Land and rebuild Jerusalem. Since this prophecy was written 150 to 200 years before Persian Emperor Cyrus was even born, there is no way that Isaiah could have even known that this was going to happen, unless by a direct revelation from God.

Another examply of fulfilled Bible prophecy is found in Isaiah 13:20, where it was not only propesied that they city of Babylon would be destroyed, but also that it would never be inhabited again. Particulary, not the line, "Nor will the Arabian pitch tents there ...."(Isaiah13:20b, NKJV) The very fact that no pure-blooded Arab has ever pitched a tent in the ruins of Babylon, to this day, stands as a testimony to the fact that at least the prophecies in the Bible were revelations from God, and not mere man-made predictions!

Stormy, you asked me, "Authority for what?" Well, the short answer is, everything. But for the moment, I will focus on these issues: the nature of God, faith, morals, doctrine, and how to live our day-to-day lives! On and for those issues, the Bible is the highest authority that we have on Earth today!

Hope that I have done an okay job of answering your questions!

With love in Christ,

MRHarvey

StormyOne said:

it is possible to believe that the bible is the highest authority without believing it is inerrant/infallible.... what you have said is you believe that the bible is the highest authority on earth....

Having said that, while that is your belief I would ask why do you believe the bible is the highest authority? Authority for what?

Click to expand...

Your questions are fair ones, Stormy, and I am going to try to give the best answers I can taking into account the limited amount of time that I have. If I had more time, I could think it over better, and give better answers. But I hope the ones that I give you now will be good enough!

There are a number of reasons why I would say that they Bible is the highest authority. One reason is that, although the Bible was never intended to be a science text book, a number of scientific facts were stated in the Bible thousands of years before they were discovered by scientists. Just to give two examples, the fact that the air has weight, and that the Earth is floating in space without any visible support. (Job 26:7).

Another reason why I consider the Bible to be an authority is because of its historical accuracy. Again and again and again, archaeology has proved much of the Bible to be true, and has refuted anti-Bible skeptics. I'm not necessarily that every scripture has been proven to be true by archaeology, but no one has ever successfully disproved the historical accuracy a single passage in the Bible.

A third reason why I consider the Bible to be authoriy is because of fulfilled prophecy! For example, in chapters 44 and 45 of the Book of Isaiah, it is prophesied that a man named Cyrus would become the Emperor of a world-ruling empire, and that he would set the Jewish people free from the Babylonian exile, and that he would allow them to return to the Proised Land and rebuild Jerusalem. Since this prophecy was written 150 to 200 years before Persian Emperor Cyrus was even born, there is no way that Isaiah could have even known that this was going to happen, unless by a direct revelation from God.

Another examply of fulfilled Bible prophecy is found in Isaiah 13:20, where it was not only propesied that they city of Babylon would be destroyed, but also that it would never be inhabited again. Particulary, not the line, "Nor will the Arabian pitch tents there ...."(Isaiah13:20b, NKJV) The very fact that no pure-blooded Arab has ever pitched a tent in the ruins of Babylon, to this day, stands as a testimony to the fact that at least the prophecies in the Bible were revelations from God, and not mere man-made predictions!

Stormy, you asked me, "Authority for what?" Well, the short answer is, everything. But for the moment, I will focus on these issues: the nature of God, faith, morals, doctrine, and how to live our day-to-day lives! On and for those issues, the Bible is the highest authority that we have on Earth today!

Hope that I have done an okay job of answering your questions!

With love in Christ,

MRHarvey

thank you for sharing what you believe.....

StormyOne said:

it is possible to believe that the bible is the highest authority without believing it is inerrant/infallible.... what you have said is you believe that the bible is the highest authority on earth....

Having said that, while that is your belief I would ask why do you believe the bible is the highest authority? Authority for what?

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To have the experience of watching a new born baby come into this world is beyond words. Then to watch the little one take it's first breath. To see someone angry and stern truly repent - their life totally changes. This too is more than words can express. Only the highest authority is able to give life, able to change the heart to express repentance in a true way that changes anger to love. That's why I believe in God, that's why I believe in His written word.

Authority for what? Authority to give life and to take it. Authority to take us beyond the grave!

That said, I do not believe the words of the Bible themselves lead anyone to believe in the Bible or in the God of the Bible in a way to change one's life from anger to love. Without the spirit of God accompaniny the writing of the words -- the Bible as a book is nothing!

Restin

Restin said:

To have the experience of watching a new born baby come into this world is beyond words. Then to watch the little one take it's first breath. To see someone angry and stern truly repent - their life totally changes. This too is more than words can express. Only the highest authority is able to give life, able to change the heart to express repentance in a true way that changes anger to love. That's why I believe in God, that's why I believe in His written word.

Authority for what? Authority to give life and to take it. Authority to take us beyond the grave!

That said, I do not believe the words of the Bible themselves lead anyone to believe in the Bible or in the God of the Bible in a way to change one's life from anger to love. Without the spirit of God accompaniny the writing of the words -- the Bible as a book is nothing!

Restin

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while I agree that God is to be the highest authority, I do not share the view that the bible is the written word of God as God did not write the bible....

This is one of the big issues I am confused about. I whole heartedly don't believe in the dietary laws. But cannot bring myself to break them.

Before when I believed them 100% I would probably have taken the burrito, and thanked them graciously, but informed them due to diet concerns I cannot have the sausage, however I it looks delicious and if you don't mind, can I please just pick out the sausage.

I was never truly hesitant, outside of not being sure just how to explain it, because what I did was for the glory of God

Now I would be torn between just eating it or sticking to the laws because I can't bring myself to break them- if they are real.

Windmill said:

This is one of the big issues I am confused about. I whole heartedly don't believe in the dietary laws. But cannot bring myself to break them.

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This is called indoctrination. And until you change your relationship with the issue, it's best to not depart from the dietary laws.

Just understand there are millions of people indoctrinated to feel guilty about a whole host of actions you feel totally fine about.

If you are interested in looking more deeply, step one is to ask why the laws were created in the first place. Or - what principle did they originate from? Once you have this, you may be able to come into better relationship with the principle even though you are not following a particular form that came from it.

Windmill said:

I whole heartedly don't believe in the dietary laws. But cannot bring myself to break them. .....

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Avona has a point, well spoken.

The principals written in Romans 14, sets an example for us, not to despise the weak, don't judge the strong. I had live a life judging my husband for many years. Likewise, my husband had lived a life despising my 'weakness', many years.

As our family matured, God gave us to reexamine our foundation principals. What was the purpose of it all. As the re-examination went forward we began to pray for one another, which led us to forgive each other. Presently, the despising and the judging between us left. Along with it the bondage also left. Praise God

Not only pray, but live and forgive as in - The Lord's Prayer - Matthew 5.

God Bless,
Restin

Indeed, thanks guys I won't rush these things

moicherie said:

In the english language 'The house of Jack' means 'The house belongs to Jack'
'The word of God' means 'The word belongs to God', (what we call The Bible does not apply to this description)
Many paintings are inspired by God that does not mean the paintings belong to God. He is not running an art gallery.
The highest authority on earth today is creation - it was a witness of a Creator long before The bible...

Click to expand...

Moicherie, while I believe with all my heart in the importance of worshipping God in -- and getting to know God better through -- creation, I would hesitate to say that creation is a higher authority than the Bible.

Creation has often been referred to as God's General Revelation, while the Bible is God's Special Revelation. You can't study one without the other and expect to come to a proper understanding of the nature and character of God; you need to study both of them together! God's Special Revelation helps you to understand God's General Revelation better, and vice-versa!

In a previous posting, I attempted to answer the question, "[The Bible is an] Authority for what?" One point that I left out of that particular posting, but I will bring up now, is that the Bible is an authority when it comes to salvation, and what salvation is, and how to receive it.

Therefore, part of the reason why I wouldn't say that creation is a higher authority than the Bible, is because you cannot learn how to gain salvation from the study of the creation alone. (If you could, every scientist who has ever lived would be saved!)

Not only that, but seeking to learn about the nature and character of God from the study of creation alone -- without the Bible -- can potentially lead to pantheism. It can potentially lead to worshipping the creation, rather than the Creator. And that in turn leads to all kinds of evils! Romans, chapter one (especially verses 18 through the end of the chapter) describes the kinds of evils that that can lead to, in great detail!

In short, when I say that the Bible is authority, I am not necessarily saying that all of the Bible should be taken literally, word for word. But I AM saying that the Bible is an adequate guide to salvation! And the knowledge that God reveals about Himself through His General Revelation is simply not sufficient for salvation!

With Love in Christ,

MRHarvey

1. The dichotomy between "general revelation" and "special revelation" is wholly theological, that is, theoretical-analytical and imposed. The scriptures usually classified as "special revelation" do not make this distinction. In those scriptures, that which is revealed is revealed. That which is occluded is occluded. There is no maybe-sorta-kinda: God self-reveals. And creation reveals God.

2. Not knowing that his songs would later be collected and added to the library we now call The Bible, David said "The heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament showeth His handiwork" and "The heavens declare his righteousness, and all the people see His glory."

If nature does not in fact declare God, David was mistaken. Perhaps this was mere poetic exuberance and he didn't mean what he said.

3. Not knowing that his letter to some Romans would later be combined with other letters and then added to the library we now call The Bible, Paul stated that "that which may be known of God" was "manifest" in creation and and "shewed" to creation by God Himself -- it was "clearly seen" and "understood." The very fact that it was "manifest," "shown," "clearly seen," and "understood" was Paul's justification for declaring all humanity "without excuse" in whatsoever choices the race subsequently made.

If God cannot in fact be authentically known from the work of His hands, and does not show Himself clearly in and to creation, then Paul was not just mistaken but also grossly misjudged humankind.

Other witnesses to the revelatory power of creation include Job and Isaiah. And me. None of these witnesses wax quite so lyrical about the revelatory power of the scroll.

Post-Jesus, writers began to lyricize Him as well. But even in Jesus, the same sound pattern of revelation applied. God self-revealed in Jesus. And, through One born of a woman, creation revealed God.

Ironically it was because of scroll-dependence that the first-century Jews had a spot of trouble perceiving 'God with them.' It would be a shame for us to commit the same error.

MRHarvey said:

Moicherie, while I believe with all my heart in the importance of worshipping God in -- and getting to know God better through -- creation, I would hesitate to say that creation is a higher authority than the Bible.

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So you think that the book God wrote with His own creative hand is of less authority than the books that was written by His creatures. That is an interesting position to take.

Windmill said:

This is one of the big issues I am confused about. I whole heartedly don't believe in the dietary laws. But cannot bring myself to break them.

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The reverse is true for me. I believe in the dietary laws, but sometimes I struggle to keep them.