Should I do this? Looking for ethical and morally biblical for - and - against....

[jada]

Here's what I think I might be hearing.

It is totally possible that I am wrong.

That I am supposed to sell all my belongings.
He tells me about John the Baptist, going out into the desert.
He tells me about Moses, going out into the desert.
He tells me that all the apostles left everything at the drop of a hat and literally walked away from everything...

I was upset with God for what looks like letting the wicked prosper, and I heard clear as day over and over "the only thing you are good for is nailing to a cross". Then he told me to pick up my cross and follow him. I saw how people spit and railed at Jesus as he pulled this dead weight, this heavy, splintery cross, through the dirt, doing his duty only to be convicted and killed. He said that was what I was good for...

I am worried that I have been through some very difficult circumstances, and that although it has been several years now, the desire to leave this place grows stronger, like I hear this calling...sort of wooing...saying come with me.

But lets get real: if I leave everything, then I have to take my cats to the pound, where I have been told two of them will be put down. I have tried to find homes for them, but no takers.

I would not have any savings to fall back on. Not even enough to get back home if I got into trouble.

My family would be totally freaked out, and it would seem dishonest to simply not tell them. They would be very frightened for my mental stability. I'm a little concerned myself, that I might be totally off my rocker if I think God is talking to me - I mean - what if I'm wrong?

I would not have money to pay my outstanding bills, or a job to make that money. To put this in perspective, I have over 60K in student loan debt, so although I am not complaining, it is not like I would be exactly responsible if I just stopped making payments.

I have tried to talk to my pastor about this, and he asks me to write this stuff in a journal. Not stuff to show anyone else, just for myself. Which is all fine and dandy, but its not exactly answering my questions. There is a pattern to this, but where its leading, I am not sure. He and the associate pastor have said that they have been impressed with my strength of character and consistencey, and that the circumstances over the last few years have been both remarkable in their intensity and unusual...so they suspect that I am being attacked heavily on a spiritual, emotional, intellectual and physical level. Why, they are not really sharing.

And to top it off, every night I have trouble sleeping, with thoughts running through my head saying give up now, there is no reason to go on, why don't you just lay in the dirt and die, you don't matter, you'll always be in bondage to your debt (or watching my parents grow old and suffer, never have children, die alone, or whatever - stuff that I am not totally in control of, but that would be painful for me to be powerless about).
I know these are lies, but when I'm trying to sleep, they are tough to ignore. I often wake up crying to Jesus to make it stop, or at least take me to Heaven now so I won't be tormented any longer. I also pray against the enemy and tell him to leave me alone in the name of Christ. But the thoughts come every night and make it difficult to sleep.

So, ethically and morally, what would you do?
Would you sell everything and run out into the "wilderness".
Or what?

 

[sunlover1]

Doesn't sound like anything God would
say.

 

[bliz]

Seek out a spiritual advisor in your community who can help you sort these things out. There is so much we don't know about you that it would be hard to know how to advise you, and irresponsible to give you advise.

Continue to pray for guidance.

Keep reading the Bible.

Find someone, probably an older women, who can help you think about all of this.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Here's what I think I might be hearing.

It is totally possible that I am wrong.

That I am supposed to sell all my belongings.
He tells me about John the Baptist, going out into the desert.
He tells me about Moses, going out into the desert.
He tells me that all the apostles left everything at the drop of a hat and literally walked away from everything...

I was upset with God for what looks like letting the wicked prosper, and I heard clear as day over and over "the only thing you are good for is nailing to a cross". Then he told me to pick up my cross and follow him. I saw how people spit and railed at Jesus as he pulled this dead weight, this heavy, splintery cross, through the dirt, doing his duty only to be convicted and killed. He said that was what I was good for...

I am worried that I have been through some very difficult circumstances, and that although it has been several years now, the desire to leave this place grows stronger, like I hear this calling...sort of wooing...saying come with me.

But lets get real: if I leave everything, then I have to take my cats to the pound, where I have been told two of them will be put down. I have tried to find homes for them, but no takers.

I would not have any savings to fall back on. Not even enough to get back home if I got into trouble.

My family would be totally freaked out, and it would seem dishonest to simply not tell them. They would be very frightened for my mental stability. I'm a little concerned myself, that I might be totally off my rocker if I think God is talking to me - I mean - what if I'm wrong?

I would not have money to pay my outstanding bills, or a job to make that money. To put this in perspective, I have over 60K in student loan debt, so although I am not complaining, it is not like I would be exactly responsible if I just stopped making payments.

I have tried to talk to my pastor about this, and he asks me to write this stuff in a journal. Not stuff to show anyone else, just for myself. Which is all fine and dandy, but its not exactly answering my questions. There is a pattern to this, but where its leading, I am not sure. He and the associate pastor have said that they have been impressed with my strength of character and consistencey, and that the circumstances over the last few years have been both remarkable in their intensity and unusual...so they suspect that I am being attacked heavily on a spiritual, emotional, intellectual and physical level. Why, they are not really sharing.

And to top it off, every night I have trouble sleeping, with thoughts running through my head saying give up now, there is no reason to go on, why don't you just lay in the dirt and die, you don't matter, you'll always be in bondage to your debt (or watching my parents grow old and suffer, never have children, die alone, or whatever - stuff that I am not totally in control of, but that would be painful for me to be powerless about).
I know these are lies, but when I'm trying to sleep, they are tough to ignore. I often wake up crying to Jesus to make it stop, or at least take me to Heaven now so I won't be tormented any longer. I also pray against the enemy and tell him to leave me alone in the name of Christ. But the thoughts come every night and make it difficult to sleep.

So, ethically and morally, what would you do?
Would you sell everything and run out into the "wilderness".
Or what?

What is the most important thing in your life? What, in your life is the most important thing you should be concerned about?

Where are you going when you die?

NOTHING else is more important then that question. now you ask?

That I am supposed to sell all my belongings.

If, and that is a big IF, having all those possession is causing you to not walk the walk of righteousness, then by all means get rid of it, and fast. For example a person who has much, and is not humble, should in fact sell everything he/she owns, so that they become humble. If having riches makes you proud, haughty, prideful, boastful, arrogant, Greedy, then yes sell everything you own to save your soul. But if you are still humble even though you have possessions, and those possesssion is dont causing you to sin, AND you are willing to give it all up if God so required it of you, then you need not sell all that you own, because it is not hindering your walk by having them.
If then it is harder for a rich person to enter into Heaven, why does one desire to be rich ? If then it is harder for a rich person to enter into Heaven, it stands to reason it is easier for a poor person to enter into Heaven, if it is harder for a rich person. therefore desire to be poor. Is it not written:

1Cor:10:24: Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.

Haven't you noticed, those who are rich have in fact seeked his own. i would rather have lots of money to give away and live in a box, then to live in a mansion and give none. Therefore desire not to have riches.

The only thing you should desire, is to be a True Christian, do only those things which please Christ. my question for you is this. What you are doing right now, how you are living right now, Does this please Christ ? If then your situation right now does please Christ, then do not change it. BUT if your situation that you are living right now, does not please Christ, Then by all means change it, so that it does. For example you are talking about going out to the desert because you feel it is what God desires you to do. Are you doing something now, that is unpleasing to Christ ? If so, and going to the desert will change that, then by all mean head out to the desert right now.
Our life on this planet is to determine, where we will spend eternity. If you are in a situation that is sinful, then by all means, do whatever is necessary to get rid of that sinfulness, even if it means moving out into a desert, if that is what it will take. But if you are walking righteous now, then do not change.
Again can't stress enough, there is only one thing important in this life " where are you going when you die? "

You said :

And to top it off, every night I have trouble sleeping, with thoughts running through my head saying give up now, there is no reason to go on, why don't you just lay in the dirt and die, you don't matter, you'll always be in bondage to your debt (or watching my parents grow old and suffer, never have children, die alone, or whatever - stuff that I am not totally in control of, but that would be painful for me to be powerless about).

None of that matters, Are you going to Heaven? This is what is important, if then you know you are, then there is no fear of death. Know this also, no matter where you lay down your head, either in your own house or in the desert, you will have tribulations and satan will continually tempt you. So no matter where you are at on this planet, these things will come upon you. Have your thoughts on Christ and where you are going, even through all this problems. Peter was in prison for two years, TWO YEARS, and he was innocent, but God still allowed him to remain there for a whole two years, and he was a just man in the eyes of God. Our troubles and our problems are minor. The condition of your soul, is what is Major and should be your priority over every thing else in your life.
So then here is the best advise i can give you. ASK GOD what you should do, and be still where you are at until which point He makes it known to you what He wants you to do:

Mt:7:7: Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Mt:21:22: And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

Believe and you shall receive, but be patient, it may take two years before He answers you.

In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[dayhiker]

Hi Jada,
I'd dave gave you some good things to think about.
If God is telling you to simplify your life then by all means do it. I'd have a hard time to say walk away from your debts and not pay them. Clearly your debt is pressing in on you. I'm guessing that you must have studied for a pretty intense job to have that much college debt. Is the responcibility of that job weighing on you as well?

We as individuals can only take to much stress. It sounds like your stress level has been reached and your mind is telling you to simplify. That's not to say God isn't working with your inner being to get you to simpliy your life.

In the final analasys, do what the Holy Spirit is telling you o do. Believe God.

dayhiker

 

[Dvorah27]

Here's what I think I might be hearing.

It is totally possible that I am wrong.

That I am supposed to sell all my belongings.
He tells me about John the Baptist, going out into the desert.
He tells me about Moses, going out into the desert.
He tells me that all the apostles left everything at the drop of a hat and literally walked away from everything...

I was upset with God for what looks like letting the wicked prosper, and I heard clear as day over and over "the only thing you are good for is nailing to a cross". Then he told me to pick up my cross and follow him. I saw how people spit and railed at Jesus as he pulled this dead weight, this heavy, splintery cross, through the dirt, doing his duty only to be convicted and killed. He said that was what I was good for...

I am worried that I have been through some very difficult circumstances, and that although it has been several years now, the desire to leave this place grows stronger, like I hear this calling...sort of wooing...saying come with me.

But lets get real: if I leave everything, then I have to take my cats to the pound, where I have been told two of them will be put down. I have tried to find homes for them, but no takers.

I would not have any savings to fall back on. Not even enough to get back home if I got into trouble.

My family would be totally freaked out, and it would seem dishonest to simply not tell them. They would be very frightened for my mental stability. I'm a little concerned myself, that I might be totally off my rocker if I think God is talking to me - I mean - what if I'm wrong?

I would not have money to pay my outstanding bills, or a job to make that money. To put this in perspective, I have over 60K in student loan debt, so although I am not complaining, it is not like I would be exactly responsible if I just stopped making payments.

I have tried to talk to my pastor about this, and he asks me to write this stuff in a journal. Not stuff to show anyone else, just for myself. Which is all fine and dandy, but its not exactly answering my questions. There is a pattern to this, but where its leading, I am not sure. He and the associate pastor have said that they have been impressed with my strength of character and consistencey, and that the circumstances over the last few years have been both remarkable in their intensity and unusual...so they suspect that I am being attacked heavily on a spiritual, emotional, intellectual and physical level. Why, they are not really sharing.

And to top it off, every night I have trouble sleeping, with thoughts running through my head saying give up now, there is no reason to go on, why don't you just lay in the dirt and die, you don't matter, you'll always be in bondage to your debt (or watching my parents grow old and suffer, never have children, die alone, or whatever - stuff that I am not totally in control of, but that would be painful for me to be powerless about).
I know these are lies, but when I'm trying to sleep, they are tough to ignore. I often wake up crying to Jesus to make it stop, or at least take me to Heaven now so I won't be tormented any longer. I also pray against the enemy and tell him to leave me alone in the name of Christ. But the thoughts come every night and make it difficult to sleep.

So, ethically and morally, what would you do?
Would you sell everything and run out into the "wilderness".
Or what?

No, honey, I don't believe God is telling you to do any of these things. For one, God wants us to be responsible. 1. You have responsibilities towards the animals in your care. He would not have you do anything to put them in harm's way. They cannot care for themselves, but they rely on you. God has put them in your care.
2. You have a responsibility to pay your debts. God would not have you put yourself into a position in which you would not be able to repay those whom you owe. That would be stealing.
3. You have a responsibility towards your family. We do not simply abandon those who care about us. What kind of witness would that be ? No, I don't believe God would have you do that.
4. IF God is telling you something, it may not be literal. It may simply mean that you need to distance yourself from something in your life which is not edifying to your walk with him. Wandering in the desert does not necessarily mean a physical act.

Pray to know God's will in all things & ask for discernment & clarification. What you think he is saying to you may not be what you think, that's IF you're hearing from him at all. It doesn't sound to me that it is God giving you these messages, to be honest.

 

[sparassidae]

I agree with Dvorah27. Giving away posessions it a completely different idea to abandoning debt.

 

[BigNorsk]

Many people when they become a committed Christian look around and say God wouldn't have wanted me to do this and they leave their obligations, that even includes spouses and children.

Well, that's just not correct thinking.

Take the Israelites they were told to kill everyone in the promised land, and not to make any agreements with those people. Yet, when they did make an agreement, even though it was because they were tricked, they honored it.

You need to honor your commitment on those student loans. It would be a dishonor to God to do otherwise. Can you imagine what people would say. Why didn't she pay? Oh, she "found God" and claimed to be a Christian so she just walked away from it. Wow, so much for Christians having a good reputation.

As for family, you are still guided by the Commandment, honor your father and mother. We of course love God more, and we understand that that can bring some conflict sometimes, but being a Christian is not abandoning your family either.

Don't worry too much about rich people's apparent success or if you don't have it. Those riches are temporary at best, and in fact, they are hazardous to people's eternal life. As Proverbs say, the rich trust their wealth. We aren't to do that, but rather trust God.

Your post reads a lot like Ecclesiastes, have you read that recently for understanding?

Marv

 

[Mindstormed]

Hi Jada, I know this is an old post, but was wondering if you had any updates? I'm going through the same thing - a spirit of dispossession. The reason is unclear, but I know that we'll never know what's at the end of the tunnel unless we go through it.

 

[LoG]

Hi Jada, I know this is an old post, but was wondering if you had any updates? I'm going through the same thing - a spirit of dispossession. The reason is unclear, but I know that we'll never know what's at the end of the tunnel unless we go through it.

I have tried to talk to my pastor about this, and he asks me to write this stuff in a journal. Not stuff to show anyone else, just for myself. Which is all fine and dandy, but its not exactly answering my questions.

I think the answer she received from her pastor was a good one. Journaling is something I have done in past and it helped me a lot with various issues. When it is on paper it is somehow easier to see the reality or unreality of what goes on inside.

My .02

 

[wannabeadesigirl]

Jada,
You seriously need to begin by asking if the spirit speaking to you is the spirit of God. God never told us that all we are good for is being Crucified next to Christ. He's didn't even tell Christ that. Remember, Christ did tons more than just dying. He taught, he prayed, he ate, he fellowshipped, he had a family,he made mudpies as a child, he healed, he raised the dead, he rose again, he probably ate bugs too (seriously some insects, like locusts were totally on the Kosher diet)

And I can tell you from personal experience, those thoughts you hear telling you you're useless, to give up, that you're no good are NOT God. You don't even have to ask God if it's him because God is not a God of fear, or discouragement, but a God of a sound mind and peace. You are under spiritual attack, and it's hard to discern the voice of God through the other thoughts in your mind.

I would recommend reading The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis. They helped me in my spiritual battle, and provided great insight into the actions of our enemy.

Before you begin to even think about sacrificing all for the sake of the Gospel you need to get to a point where you can discern what God is telling you. Right now you're in no position to do that because you are also being told things no loving God would ever tell his beloved child.

Listen to the others on this thread. They're absolutely right about responsibilities. Even the Prophets of the Bible had responsibilities. Moses had a wife and two kids. He also had a bunch of people he was responsible for. John the Baptist had a responsibility to the people he baptized, and a responsibility to his ministry. Jesus, when he went into the wilderness had a responsibility and that was to become sympathetic to our own temptations.
Elijah had Elisha to take care of. Elisha had the entire nation of Israel to wakeup. Hosea had a prostitute for a wife, and 3 kids to take care of. Jonah had the entire nation of Assyria to warn.


Take care of your responsibilities first. Pay off your debts, take care of your kitties, stay with your family, talk to them, keep that journal, and by all means start to look into the possibility that those thoughts you have are not actually God at all but really the enemy hoping to discourage you and keep you away from the finish line.
After all of that is taken care of, if you still feel like you need to relenquish it all God will provide a way for everything, and everyone to be taken care of while you're fellowshipping with him. He'll give you a ministry, and he'll find someone to take care of your pets.

 

[phoenixgw]

Pretend your possessions are keys on a key chain. That includes your cats, your money, your clothes, your relationships, your hobbies, your time--everything. They're your keys. You can do with them what you want, yet you feel a longing to throw away your keys and follow the Lord.

That is not what the Lord wants. When the time comes, you will find the keys don't work as they should. Start with a relationship. Instead of handling the key yourself, begin praying to God and say, "You take it, Jesus. you know what should be done with it. Please show me. Thank you Jesus. Amen." Then you wait; it's not your problem anymore. Forget about it. When you need to know what to say or do when it's time to use that key, you'll know.

Try doing this with the other keys on your key chain. You will gain more confidence (and faith) as you pray and trust Jesus to show you what to do. Eventually, you may have some keys that you do not want to hand over to Jesus. This is natural; we are selfish, sinful creatures by nature. It may be a habit, a relationship, a vice--something we don't want to give to Jesus. Then we realize Jesus is gone. Our lives become more and more empty until we get to the moment of truth; either we give up the whole key ring and pray, "Take it! Take the keys Jesus. My life is your life: my possessions are your possessions. My relationships are your relationships. My cats are your cats." The burden is lifted. You know longer own these this things, Jesus does. You are now their steward (caretaker).

The alternative is to die clutching your keys with your cold dead hands.