Should Genesis be taken literally?

Bronze messiah · Mar 11, 2017

My issue is whether it's literal or not, Adam and Eve, and Noah and his sons, would have to resemble dark and wooly haired Ethiopian or Egyptian like characters. Because there is no way possible that any other race created the negroid, but the negro, every other race. So far in churches globally lies to us so we can think that Christ Moses Adam are all white olive Caucasian men. (Rather than the negro Causasian.)

2PhiloVoid · Mar 11, 2017

-57 said:
So, when I read the bible as see where it say God made man from the dust then woman from mans rib and believe it...I'm drinking kool aid?

No, you're not drinking kool-aid. You're drinking Sacred Cosmogony, as opposed to mere (and literal) Sacred Cosmology.

Cosmology vs Cosmogony - What's the difference? | the-difference-between.com

-57 · Mar 11, 2017

2PhiloVoid said:
No, you're not drinking kool-aid. You're drinking Sacred Cosmogeny, as opposed to mere (and literal) Sacred Cosmology.

Cosmology vs Cosmogony - What's the difference? | the-difference-between.com

Let me ask you....As a christian...Why do you refuse to tell us why we sin? Where our sin nature came from?

joshua 1 9 · Mar 11, 2017

-57 said:
Why do you refuse to tell us why we sin? Where our sin nature came from?

What verse are you referring to?

2PhiloVoid · Mar 11, 2017

-57 said:
Let me ask you....As a christian...Why do you refuse to tell us why we sin? Where our sin nature came from?

I don't refuse. It's just that when I say it, you don't "get it." You want some all-inclusive, comprehensive, as well as hermetically sealed assurance that every single tiny little detail can be accounted for....as if God divulged His whole plan to us, along with the details of His ongoing work, and has kept absolutely nothing back. Well, I'm sorry, but what I call the Epistemological Indices of the Bible inform us, or at least give us hints, that God hasn't told us the whole story...

expos4ever · Mar 11, 2017

-57 said:
Wow, what an exchange. Admitting evolutionism is fact is denying the bible is fact.

No. Misrepresentation is one of two arrows in the quiver of the creationist. The other, of course, is the use of poisonous demonizing "you are a heretic" rhetoric.

You must surely know that one can coherently understand the book of Genesis to be, at least in part, "inspired myth". Now I know you may have some objections related to reconciling:

1. The Biblical account of sin and death entering the world as the result of the fall of Adam and Eve; and

2. The claim of evolution that billions of living things had lived and died before human beings even arose (and therefore before a putative "fall").

Fair enough - at first glance, I do not see how this contradiction can be resolved without doing away with the concept of a "literal" fall (since I think it is wildly implausible that the theory of evolution is false).

So, yes, I posit there was no such a thing as a literal fall - the Adam and Eve story is a metaphor to describe the human condition. You are free to counterargue, of course.

But I would hope that we can have an adult dialog about this, without all the name-calling and demonizing (and I have done some of this myself, I fully concede).

expos4ever · Mar 11, 2017

-57 said:
As a christian...Why do you refuse to tell us why we sin? Where our sin nature came from?

I am prepared to suggest it is "baked" into our genes through the process of evolution.

JacksBratt · Mar 11, 2017

HenryM said:
Jacks, do you feel like me, that after spending some time on this thread you need a good washing? I did. Good scrubbing to take away the dirt. There's no conversation with some, unfortunately, as they are God's too, and you get mud on you when dealing with them. But it's ok, we can take it off.

And if I could say so, they seem to not take account of God's words seriously. How do you think they take yours or mine words then?

For the most part, I find bantering with these folk drives me to do more research in the scriptures. Many times seeing things that I did not see before. Or reading the essay or presentation of another fellow bible believer.

In the end, it only strengthens my believe in the literal account of every aspect of the word of God, the fact that man is foolish, and the fact that some people put more faith in the observations of other men than they do in the words of God Himself.

Ya, I need a break from time to time, yet, there is nothing new under the sun and it almost always boils down to the same arguments with both sides solidly rooted in their views, not to be changed.

-57 · Mar 11, 2017

joshua 1 9 said:
What verse are you referring to?

I'm referring to your simple disregard for the bible that gives us the answer. So, if Genesis is wrong..a myth, parable, analogy..whatever....then why do we sin and where did our sin nature came from?

Is the question so difficult you can't answer it?

-57 · Mar 11, 2017

2PhiloVoid said:
I don't refuse. It's just that when I say it, you don't "get it." You want some all-inclusive, comprehensive, as well as hermetically sealed assurance that every single tiny little detail can be accounted for....as if God divulged His whole plan to us, along with the details of His ongoing work, and has kept absolutely nothing back. Well, I'm sorry, but what I call the Epistemological Indices of the Bible inform us, or at least give us hints, that God hasn't told us the whole story...

So, as a christian.....you're telling me that in Genesis God didn't reveal why we sin? Or as an evolutionist you're telling me it didn't happen the way God described it in Genesis....so I then ask you, why do we sin? How did our sin nature come about?

-57 · Mar 11, 2017

expos4ever said:
I am prepared to suggest it is "baked" into our genes through the process of evolution.

So, we evolved the ability to sin? Was it a sin mutation?...after all the bible MUST be wrong when it tells us it was an act of disobedience.

2PhiloVoid · Mar 11, 2017

-57 said:
So, as a christian.....you're telling me that in Genesis God didn't reveal why we sin? Or as an evolutionist you're telling me it didn't happen the way God described it in Genesis....so I then ask you, why do we sin? How did our sin nature come about?

Isn't it enough for us to know that we do sin? Why do you need to know 'why'...?

-57 · Mar 11, 2017

2PhiloVoid said:
Isn't it enough for us to know that we do sin? Why do you need to know 'why'...?

Well you see, it's like this.....The bible tells us why we sin. You disagree with the bible....so, I ask you in your christian opinion why do we sin? Where did our sin nature come from?

SLB · Mar 11, 2017

Big Drew said:
So, is it possible that this is what happened with Genesis? That after years of oral tradition some of the "facts" changed?

To get this back to your original question, in what way do you think the Biblical narrative may have been enhanced?

2PhiloVoid · Mar 11, 2017

-57 said:
Well you see, it's like this.....The bible tells us why we sin. You disagree with the bible....so, I ask you in your christian opinion why do we sin? Where did our sin nature come from?

And precisely "why" do we sin, you ask? So, the Bible is now a psychology textbook?

You're missing my point: we can take from the Bible the implication that we human beings tend toward "autonomy" and therefore choose to not cooperate with our Maker,....But this by no means has to indicate to us that the Garden of Eden story is an account EXACTLY reflecting what has taken place within human history as homo sapiens have grappled with the idea of "the divine."

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

-57 · Mar 11, 2017

2PhiloVoid said:
And precisely "why" do we sin, you ask? So, the Bible is now a psychology textbook?

You're missing my point: we can take from the Bible the implication that we human beings tend toward "autonomy" and therefore choose to not cooperate with our Maker,....But this by no means has to indicate to us that the Garden of Eden story is an account EXACTLY reflecting what has taken place within human history as homo sapiens have grappled with the idea of "the divine."

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

So, Adam and Eve didn't sin in the garden the way Genesis tells us? Why do we sin? Why is it that Theo-Evos can't answer that question?

joshua 1 9 · Mar 11, 2017

-57 said:
I'm referring to your simple disregard for the bible that gives us the answer

I have read the Bible many times. I do not disregard the Bible. Also to accuse me is considered a flame or a personal attack and it is a violation of the rules here on this forum.

expos4ever · Mar 11, 2017

The Times said:
There are preventative measures that God had put in place, foreseeing the destruction of his creation by Atheists who push the world from homosexual agenda to transgender agenda to Transhumanist agenda.

Honestly, how do you come up with stuff?

joshua 1 9 · Mar 11, 2017

-57 said:
So, Adam and Eve didn't sin in the garden the way Genesis tells us?

1 Timothy 2:14 "Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner." The word used here is "transgression" this means:

3847 parábasis (from 3844 /pará, "contrary" and bainō, "go") – properly, an "overstepping" (BAGD); a deliberate going over "the line." 3847 ("a stepping over the line") in the NT refers to the willful disregard (breaking) of God's law which defies His drawn-lines (boundaries); an arrogant "over-stepping."

Jesus teaches us that we are to pray: "Thy Will be done." This involves the Holiness of God. I tend to follow the Holiness teachings of John Wesley. We are to be sanctified and set apart for God's purpose. If we do not live Holy Sanctified lives before God we may still be saved but we will not be used by God. For many are called but few are chosen. Few people answer the call to live the life that God is calling us to live.

The Bible says we are to purify our flesh, this is our garment and this is what the Bride must do to prepare for the return of the Bridegroom: "They have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb and made them white" Also we read about Oil for our lamp. This means we are to be Filled with the Spirit of God. The christians that live in the flesh will be "left behind" and they will go into the tribulation period. They do not even believe in a pre trib rapture so they admit that they will go into the tribulation period. Just like atheists admit in the end they will perish and be destroyed.

We have to be careful what words we use because our words are a demonstration of our faith and Jesus says: "According to your faith be it unto you." Matthew 9:29

Speedwell · Mar 11, 2017

-57 said:
Nice dodge...
Once again...As a christian...Why do you refuse to tell us why we sin? Where our sin nature came from?

Refuse? I have answered you many times in various forums over the years.

We sin because at some point we acquired the knowledge of good and evil and the ability to contemplate our own mortality--which the other creatures do not possess--either by eating a piece of magic fruit or in some other fashion and thus sin and death came into the world.

Now you can go back to pretending I have never answered the question.

Should Genesis be taken literally?

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