Should Christians support the creation of a Palestinian state in the Holy Land?

[Paxton25]

JERUSALEM -- Palestinian militants in Gaza fired more than 50 shells into Israel yesterday, the heaviest barrage in two years, Israeli officials said.

Hamas fires rockets at Israel in one of the worst attacks in years - NYPOST.com

I say let one of those Hamas rockets ''accidentally'' hit the Dome of the Rock and rebuild the Temple already!

Palestinians aren't Arabs; they're Mediterranean Philistines who have no historic claim to the land. Why not allow Israel to send them back to Greece or Turkey?

Origin of the Name Palestine

Gen. 12 1 Now the LORD had said to Abram:
“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.

2 I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.

3 I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

Who dares to support partition of the Holy Land???

 

[ebia]

Should Christians support the creation of a Palestinian state in the Holy Land?

Yes.

 

[Paxton25]

Joel 3:1 For behold, in those days and at that time,
When I bring back the captives of Judah and Jerusalem,
2 I will also gather all nations,
And bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat;
And I will enter into judgment with them there
On account of My people, My heritage Israel,
Whom they have scattered among the nations;
They have also divided up My land.

Joel 3 - New King James Version - BibleGateway.com

 

[ebia]

You seem to have lost track of where Jesus fits into the picture.

 

[solarwave]

Yes there should be a Palestinian state. It would hopefully reduce the fighting and the Palestinians deserve a state of their own, recognized by the world. I don't really mind where they get their state.

 

[Hairy Tic]

JERUSALEM -- Palestinian militants in Gaza fired more than 50 shells into Israel yesterday, the heaviest barrage in two years, Israeli officials said.

Hamas fires rockets at Israel in one of the worst attacks in years - NYPOST.com

I say let one of those Hamas rockets ''accidentally'' hit the Dome of the Rock and rebuild the Temple already!

## You do realise that would cause no end of trouble ? It would cause even worse trouble than dropping a bomb on St. Peter's.

Besides, what possible reason can a Christian have to want to rebuild the Temple ?

Palestinians aren't Arabs; they're Mediterranean Philistines who have no historic claim to the land. Why not allow Israel to send them back to Greece or Turkey?

Origin of the Name Palestine

Gen. 12 1 Now the LORD had said to Abram:
“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.

2 I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.

3 I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

Who dares to support partition of the Holy Land???

## Why not ? Because the Bible - well, selected bits of it - is totally useless as a guide to modern geo-politics. It's not meant as one. One might as well use the Iliad to "prove" that Greece has a right to the Troad (AKA SW Turkey). If the Iliad is no sound basis for Greek foreign policy - why should the OT be a sound basis for Israeli foreign policy ?

Genesis 12:3 has been amply fulfilled anyway - 12:2 certainly does n't apply today in the Gaza Strip: dropping phosphorus on Palestinians is a strange way of being a blessing to them.

Far too often, the Bible has been the occasion for atrocious enormities - the world has no need of another.

As for this:

• "Why not allow Israel to send them back to Greece or Turkey?"

- not long ago, Protestants were treating the expulsion of the Jews from Spain in 1492 as leading evidence of the Hellishness of Catholicism: so it's hilarious (in a way) to find some Protestants favouring similar measures, against a different people, by the Jews.

 

[wannabeadesigirl]

Yes, we should create a separate Palestinian state in the Holy Land
Palestinian and Israeli Christians alike are being killed and displaced in the fighting. My first loyalty lies with my own family. Anything that is destroying their lives should not be supported by us, including the creation of a new Jewish nation.

Secondly, I don't know if you realized this, but the glory of God is described as having LEFT the temple in the Minor Prophets of the Old Testament. In other words, God FORSOOK his temple, and LEFT the people he had chosen because of the injustices they committed towards the widowed, orphaned, and foreigner. That injustice is still taking place today. There was also a suggestion that Jesus himself understood this when he wept for Jerusalem and said he longed to take it and it's children under his wing. Why would Jesus grieve for that city if something bad were not going to happen?

Thirdly, do not EVER suggest the Christian church should support the rebuilding of the temple. The lambs slaughtered there in days of old were representative of the final sacrifice, that is the Lamb of God, Jesus. He is the only sacrifice the world needs, and to build something to reinstate the old style of worship is an affront to the God who gave of himself to save US.

Fourth, the Jewish people of the world REJECT the Messiah. Anyone else who dares do that (Hindu, Buddhist, Atheist, Agnostic, etc) is automatically condemned to eternal hell fire by Christians (both malignant and well meaning alike). So now I ask the question: Why the grace for those who reject Christ, even when their own prophets point him out as the Messiah?
Don't get me wrong: I understand we are graphs on the olive tree, and that God has had the Jewish people under his wing for millenia. I also believe the Jewish people will come to know Christ as their messiah sometime in the future.
However, to blindly allow the Zionist movement to condone the senseless killing of other people because "God Is with them" is ridiculous. God is with those who do his will, which includes praying for both sides of the issue, and doing what we can for our own family.
As for the temple thing...no. Just No. Any man who claims to be the Messiah, and accepts sacrifices placed in the temple is NOT Jesus, and I will be dead before I secede that opinion.

 

[laconicstudent]

Seeing as the Jews aren't special anymore, and the Church is the New Israel, certainly. Its not as if the secular Israel of today has been particularly laudable.

Who dares to support partition of the Holy Land???

I agree, this secular state calling itself Israel should be entirely disbanded, and Palestine should be returned to those who lived there for the past several centuries.

 

[brightmorningstar]

The various areas of the land given to the Jews by God have been occupied and relinquished throughout history and we see the same throughout the Bible, that there is a kind of Palestinian state there already is not a strange situation.
The Jews were supposed to be an example to the world and other nations. In a way they are, Jews and Arabs do live side by side in the State of Israel, something that one doesn’t really get in any of the surrounding states.

Whatever the significance of the land and God’s promises to the Jews, I assume they remain even though Christ has made a way for all, the current politics it seems to me it would be better to have a Palestinian state.
The biggest problem is that between Israel’s attacks on Palestine and during their blockades Hamas still fire rockets all the time.
So how about Palestine gets recognised as a state providing they recognise the state of Israel and cease rocket attacks?

Sadly among some Christians the view isnt so much pro-Palestine so much as anti- Israel. Quite why some Christians would seek to specifically go against God’s promises in the Bible to the Jews and support countries that want to wipe out Israel speaks volumes.

There are a growing number of Christian ministries now in the region for reconciliation of Jew and Arab and Christian, as a Christian I am more interested in supporting these than supporting politics.

 

[laconicstudent]

Sadly among some Christians the view isnt so much pro-Palestine so much as anti- Israel. Quite why some Christians would seek to specifically go against God’s promises in the Bible to the Jews and support countries that want to wipe out Israel speaks volumes.

Because Israel is often barbaric in its actions, perhaps? And a lot of us don't see some divine mandate for modern-day Zionism.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Because Israel is often barbaric in its actions, perhaps? [/quote] but isnt Hamas also barbaric?

And a lot of us don't see some divine mandate for modern-day Zionism.

But whatever modern-day Zionism is supposed to be, what about God's promises of the land to the Jews?

NB Note that Exodus 6 refers to God taking His people out of Egypt to be His people, it wasnt just for the land.

Its probably also harder for Arab Christians to live in Paltesine than Israel.

 

[wannabeadesigirl]

Its probably also harder for Arab Christians to live in Paltesine than Israel.

Partially because Israel helped! I don't think life was a bowl of cherries for Christians in Palestine before the partition, but at least their homes weren't being blown up by rockets on a regular basis.

As far as God promising the land to the Jews, it's a false assumption to believe that modern day Israel equals Jewish. The soldiers on the Israeli side are not primarily Jewish. There are Muslims, Christians, Secularists, Atheists, and Agnostics amongst their ranks as well. The same can be said for the Palestinian side.
You also have to remember that God also promised to bless Ishmael and his descendants. So where does that promise fall?

 

[laconicstudent]

Its probably also harder for Arab Christians to live in Paltesine than Israel.

Yes, thanks to Israel.

Arab Christians — National Geographic Magazine

As for Christians specifically living in Israel: http://www.haaretz.com/print-editio...m-want-jews-to-stop-spitting-on-them-1.137099

 

[brightmorningstar]

Wannabeadesigirl and Laconicstudent,
Hamas is a terrosit Islamic organisation that wants to see the state of Israel wiped off the face of the earth. They are basically in charge in Palestine. You seem to have more sympathy with Hamas lead Palestine than a country that wishes to live in peace without being rocketed even though it commits attrocities in retaliation. Why is that?


Gaza Christians Face Hamas Threats - Inside Israel - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com

 

[ebia]

Both sides have committed and continue to commit atrocities. Israel has consistently imposed conditions on the Palestinian people that ensures it remains a dysfunctional society. Under those conditions it is pretty much impossible for the Palestinians to produce the kind of movement that Israel demands.

Unless Israel starts living like a people called to be the light of the world it has claim to be treated as such. It's only came into existence and has got away with as much as it has because of a European desire to export it's collective guilt at the expense of the Palestinians, and a reading of the Scriptural narrative in N America biased by vested interest and poor theology.

 

[brightmorningstar]

ebia,

It's only came into existence and has got away with as much as it has because of a European desire to export it's collective guilt at the expense of the Palestinians

Depends how far you want to go back. According to the Bible the Jews were given the land by God. In recent times the idea of re-establishment of the land as Israel was 1917.
However the current position is that there is a state of Israel.

 

[Cooch]

There already are 3 Palestinian states. Jordan, Lebanon and Syria. The whole area was once known as Palestine and when British and French Mandate Palestine were divided up in 1949, over 80% was placed under Arab rule .
The "Palestinian" Arabs in the Gaza strip and the West Bank are no more "Palestinian than the Jordanians.

If Jordan and Syria had accepted the Arab refugees from Israel in the same way that Israel accepted Jewish refugees from Arab nations, there would not now be any conflict.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Good points Cooch.

If Jordan and Syria had accepted the Arab refugees from Israel in the same way that Israel accepted Jewish refugees from Arab nations, there would not now be any conflict.

possibly, though try speaking about the Jews regarding Islam.

 

[Cooch]

Good points Cooch.
possibly, though try speaking about the Jews regarding Islam.

From what I hear, Israel is a pretty secular state.
Most of them would probably not care much about Islam if they weren't surrounded by Islamic nations with a history of trying to wipe Isreal off the map.

It's worth comparing who is safer. A Muslim in Israel, or a Jew in Gaza. The answer says a lot about the difference.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Superb post Cooch. I agree, Israel is a pretty secular state.
and the Muslim is much safer in Israel than the Jew is in Palestine