Should Christians interact with Gays at all?

Pliny the Elder · Nov 28, 2008

Angel4Truth said:
Your inacceptance of evidence doesnt mean evidence doesnt exist - again you want atheism only - if you thought creation science was a myth you wouldnt be so afraid of kids hearing both sides because if it was so mythical they would believe yours only.

Scientists are the ones that have determined that there is no evidence and as such they can deem what can and what cannot be taught, I have no problem with a comparative religion class but I do not want pseudo science anywhere near a science class.

Pliny the Elder · Nov 28, 2008

Angel4Truth said:
Hey im all for taking my kids (that you blame) out of secular school altogether. I mean you all tend to believe the gay harrassment received only comes from us fundys right?

Well you are all welcome to it - I fully support your right to have a completely secular school as long as you fully support my kids attending a christian with my tax dollars. Fair? Thats equal rights.

And they will still be taught evolution in science class.

Angel4Truth · Nov 28, 2008

Pliny the Elder said:
Scientists are the ones that have determined that there is no evidence and as such they can deem what can and what cannot be taught, I have no problem with a comparative religion class but I do not want pseudo science anywhere near a science class.

There are real scientists who are christians as well - there is no missing link (although evolutions want there to be so they keep changing their theories)
But again you prove my point - it was demanded that evolution be taught alongside creation - then when it was - atheists started removing creation

You want your rights but you dont want anyone else to have theirs if you disagree. So dont ask me for more rights that go against what I believe or cry how unfair because as soon you get them - i know what will happen - we wont have any left. I know to beware the intolerance of the tolerant.

Angel4Truth · Nov 28, 2008

Pliny the Elder said:
And they will still be taught evolution in science class. Of course I support the Christian kids getting out of public school I do not want them around my kids.

Then its yes you agree that we could use our tax dollars to support the schools of our choice?

geekgirlkelli · Nov 28, 2008

Angel4Truth said:
Hey im all for taking my kids (that you blame) out of secular school altogether. I mean you all tend to believe the gay harrassment received only comes from us fundys right?

Well you are all welcome to it - I fully support your right to have a completely secular school as long as you fully support my kids attending a christian with my tax dollars. Fair? Thats equal rights.

I wasn't blaming your kids. Where did you get that? Sheesh you assume so much. If you missed the point I can't help you, I think I was pretty clear, and no I don't just blame fundies, though fundy theology and bigotry is the number one propagator of anti-gay propaganda at this point, yes.

No, I don't support it. If you want religion taught in school then pay to send your kid to a Christian school. Would you be willing for your tax dollars to send my kids to an all-gay school?

Angel4Truth · Nov 28, 2008

geekgirlkelli said:
I wasn't blaming your kids. Where did you get that? Sheesh you assume so much. If you missed the point I can't help you, I think I was pretty clear, and no I don't just blame fundies, though fundy theology and bigotry is the number one propagator of anti-gay propaganda at this point, yes.

No, I don't support it. If you want religion taught in school then pay to send your kid to a Christian school. Would you be willing for your tax dollars to send my kids to an all-gay school?

No but i do support YOUR tax dollars being spent on the school of your choice yes. My tax dollars should be for the school i choose.

See what i mean though, I support TOTALLY equal rights - its those against christian values that do not. You want my tax dollars and your own.

Pliny the Elder · Nov 28, 2008

There are real scientists who are christians as well - there is no missing link (although evolutions want there to be so they keep changing their theories)

Yes there are Christian scientists and yet not one has ever been able to find any verifiable evidence that creationism is remotely possible, SO therefore it remains a hypothesis of shich you amy want to look up the difference in that an theory.

And no the theories do not change they are merely solidified with further evidence. And if you look at the fossil record there are far fewer gaps than there used to be in fact it is almost complete.

But again you prove my point - it was demanded that evolution be taught alongside creation - then when it was - atheists started removing creation

Evolution is science, creationism is not and if you teach creationism our kids we just be firther behind the rest of the world in science of which we are now so far behind we will never catch up and science is what made this country great and now without it we will cease to be the leader in anything.

You want your rights but you dont want anyone else to have theirs if you disagree. So dont ask me for more rights that go against what I believe or cry how unfair because as soon you get them - i know what will happen - we wont have any left. I know to beware the tolerance of the tolerant.

Your rights nor mine include teaching something that there is no scientific evidence for.

Pliny the Elder · Nov 28, 2008

Angel4Truth said:
Then its yes you agree that we could use our tax dollars to support the schools of our choice?

As long as your schools teach science not creationism. Otherwise we will have even more kids that are ignorant and cannot find jobs.

Angel4Truth · Nov 28, 2008

Pliny the Elder said:
Yes there are Christian scientists and yet not one has ever been able to find any verifiable evidence that creationism is remotely possible, SO therefore it remains a hypothesis of shich you amy want to look up the difference in that an theory.

And no the theories do not change they are merely solidified with further evidence. And if you look at the fossil record there are far fewer gaps than there used to be in fact it is almost complete.

Evolution is science, creationism is not and if you teach creationism our kids we just be firther behind the rest of the world in science of which we are now so far behind we will never catch up and science is what made this country great and now without it we will cease to be the leader in anything.

Your rights nor mine include teaching something that there is no scientific evidence for.

Im not sure your getting it. Just because you dont happen to believe theories alternative to evolution it doesnt mean they dont exist - but sadly you are afraid of real choice and people making up their own minds.

Angel4Truth · Nov 28, 2008

Pliny the Elder said:
As long as your schools teach science not creationism. Otherwise we will have even more kids that are ignorant and cannot find jobs.

Thank you for proving my point - you think your rights are all that matters and with that there is no point in continuing because you have proven what i have been saying all along. You want my rights removed and you want me to pay for them to be removed while you cry unfair when your the one being unfair and one sided.

Pliny the Elder · Nov 28, 2008

Angel4Truth said:
Im not sure your getting it. Just because you dont happen to believe theories alternative to evolution it doesnt mean they dont exist - but sadly you are afraid of real choice and people making up their own minds.

You do not grasp the difference in theory and hypothesis, creationism is not nor ever has been a theory. Look up the scientific method.

Scientific Law: This is a statement of fact meant to explain, in concise terms, an action or set of actions. It is generally accepted to be true and univseral, and can sometimes be expressed in terms of a single mathematical equation. Scientific laws are similar to mathematical postulates. They dont really need any complex external proofs; they are accepted at face value based upon the fact that they have always been observed to be true.
Specifically, scientific laws must be simple, true, universal, and absolute. They represent the cornerstone of scientific discovery, because if a law ever did not apply, then all science based upon that law would collapse.
Some scientific laws, or laws of nature, include the law of gravity, Newton's laws of motion, the laws of thermodynamics, Boyle's law of gases, the law of conservation of mass and energy, and Hooks law of elasticity.
Hypothesis: This is an educated guess based upon observation. It is a rational explanation of a single event or phenomenon based upon what is observed, but which has not been proved. Most hypotheses can be supported or refuted by experimentation or continued observation.
Theory: A theory is more like a scientific law than a hypothesis. A theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers. One scientist cannot create a theory; he can only create a hypothesis.
In general, both a scientific theory and a scientific law are accepted to be true by the scientific community as a whole. Both are used to make predictions of events. Both are used to advance technology.
In fact, some laws, such as the law of gravity, can also be theories when taken more generally. The law of gravity is expressed as a single mathematical expression and is presumed to be true all over the universe and all through time. Without such an assumption, we can do no science based on gravity's effects. But from the law, we derived Einstein's General Theory of Relativity in which gravity plays a crucial role. The basic law is intact, but the theory expands it to include various and complex situations involving space and time.
The biggest difference between a law and a theory is that a theory is much more complex and dynamic. A law governs a single action, whereas a theory explains an entire group of related phenomena.
An analogy can be made using a slingshot and an automobile.
A scientific law is like a slingshot. A slingshot has but one moving part--the rubber band. If you put a rock in it and draw it back, the rock will fly out at a predictable speed, depending upon the distance the band is drawn back.
An automobile has many moving parts, all working in unison to perform the chore of transporting someone from one point to another point. An automobile is a complex piece of machinery. Sometimes, improvements are made to one or more component parts. A new set of spark plugs that are composed of a better alloy that can withstand heat better, for example, might replace the existing set. But the function of the automobile as a whole remains unchanged.
A theory is like the automobile. Components of it can be changed or improved upon, without changing the overall truth of the theory as a whole.
Some scientific theories include the theory of evolution, the theory of relativity, the atomic theory, and the quantum theory. All of these theories are well documented and proved beyond reasonable doubt. Yet scientists continue to tinker with the component hypotheses of each theory in an attempt to make them more elegant and concise, or to make them more all-encompassing. Theories can be tweaked, but they are seldom, if ever, entirely replaced.
A theory is developed only through the scientific method, meaning it is the final result of a series of rigorous processes. Note that a theory never becomes a law unless it was very narrow to begin with. Scientific laws must exist prior to the start of using the scientific method because, as stated earlier, laws are the foundation for all science. Here is an oversimplified example of the development of a scientific theory.

http://wilstar.com/theories.htm

Pliny the Elder · Nov 28, 2008

Angel4Truth said:
Thank you for proving my point - you think your rights are all that matters and with that there is no point in continuing because you have proven what i have been saying all along. You want my rights removed and you want me to pay for them to be removed while you cry unfair when your the one being unfair and one sided.

I have no problem with you teaching it in comparative religion classes but not science classes, if you have kids that go to college and think creationism is a theory they will be laughed out of class as imbeciles.

I had a Christian girl in one of my college science classes that thought evolution was crap, she flunked out of college and is probably working at Burger King now.

IzzyPop · Nov 28, 2008

Angel4Truth said:
Evidence that is acceptable to atheists - there is plenty of evidence that is acceptable to christians yet atheists are afraid of both evolution and creation being taught and letting the children make their own determinations from both sides. Thats real education and real equality. you just proved my point. You want your rights but dont care about mine and think yours are worth more. That position is one of hypocrisy.

Think of the scopes trial - you gained your right but then proceeded to take away ours so dont cry persecution - discrimination or unfair. you guys are worse than you ever complained about.

This isn't even wrong.

I have no problem with creationism being taught provided it can be established as a valid theory. But it hasn't been. And given that the major ID/Creationism think tanks spend all their time and money attempting to disprove evolution as opposed to supporting creationism, I seriously doubt it will ever be.

Teaching anything other than evolution makes no sense. There is no other theory. Should we allow alchemy to be taught along side chemistry and allow the children to decide which is more valid? How about a unit on astrology to counter the unit on astronomy? Can the children then decide? And how will they learn the critical thinking skills to base their decision if we don't teach them actual science? They wouldn't learn it from math class because we would have to teach them numerology and then let them figure out which one is best for them...

geekgirlkelli · Nov 28, 2008

Angel4Truth said:
No but i do support YOUR tax dollars being spent on the school of your choice yes. My tax dollars should be for the school i choose.

See what i mean though, I support TOTALLY equal rights - its those against christian values that do not. You want my tax dollars and your own.

Actually no, I don't see it. I believe that in a state-run school, religion should be kept out of the curriculum. You want tax dollars to be spent teaching kids religion. I'm saying that's your job to teach at home and in your church, not the school's responsibility.

Wyzaard · Nov 28, 2008

Angel4Truth said:
Calling others liars is against forum guidelines as well.

Only if such accusations untrue and are made as an invective; upholding the intellectual integrity of the thread is more than ethical here.

Polycarp_fan · Nov 29, 2008

Pliny the Elder said:
I have no problem with you teaching it in comparative religion classes but not science classes, if you have kids that go to college and think creationism is a theory they will be laughed out of class as imbeciles.

And yet, if these same kids go to college believing that the throat and rectum are actually part of the sex organ,s they will be cheered as hail-fellows-well-met. Even though "science" can show this position as utterly false.

I had a Christian girl in one of my college science classes that thought evolution was crap, she flunked out of college and is probably working at Burger King now.

And has no STD's or regrets from having an abortion. No internet footage of the Dorm-orgy she never attended will ever surface either.

You left that part out.

(Don't worry you'll get away with your inaccurate flame though because or you moral status here.)

So typical.

Polycarp_fan · Nov 29, 2008

IzzyPop said:
I have no problem with creationism being taught provided it can be established as a valid theory. But it hasn't been. And given that the major ID/Creationism think tanks spend all their time and money attempting to disprove evolution as opposed to supporting creationism, I seriously doubt it will ever be.

Teaching anything other than evolution makes no sense. There is no other theory. Should we allow alchemy to be taught along side chemistry and allow the children to decide which is more valid? How about a unit on astrology to counter the unit on astronomy? Can the children then decide? And how will they learn the critical thinking skills to base their decision if we don't teach them actual science? They wouldn't learn it from math class because we would have to teach them numerology and then let them figure out which one is best for them...

Hmm sounds very dark ages familiar. Monolithic authoritarianism opposed to any challenges. Darwinism is the new flat earth.

Hmm yeah.

Or just thread derail. Forgot about that.

Polycarp_fan · Nov 29, 2008

Here ya go:

Polycarp_fan said:
Certainly, Gays themselves are demanding that Christians leave them alone.

So much tension, anger and argument whenever a Christian has to engage a homosexual/Gay Activist, should a Christian even be doing it in the first place?

All quotes ESV:

Matthew 7:

1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
6"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.

///

2 Corinthians 6:

The Temple of the Living God

14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? 16What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said,

"I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
17Therefore go out from their midst,
and be separate from them, says the Lord,
and touch no unclean thing;
then I will welcome you,
18 and I will be a father to you,
and you shall be sons and daughters to me,
says the Lord Almighty."

///

Romans 1:

18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness . . .

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity . . .

32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them . . .

///

Romans 2:

9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism . . .

///

1 Peter 1:

13Therefore, prepare your minds for action; be self-controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed. 14As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."

22Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart. 23For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24For,

///

1 Peter 2:

11Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul. 12Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.

///

8Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble. 9Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing. 10For,
"Whoever would love life
and see good days
must keep his tongue from evil
and his lips from deceitful speech.
11He must turn from evil and do good;
he must seek peace and pursue it.
12For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous
and his ears are attentive to their prayer,
but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil."
13Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good? 14But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. "Do not fear what they fear; do not be frightened." 15But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander. 17It is better, if it is God's will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.

///

2 Peter 3:

17Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. 18But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

///

1 John 1:

5This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

2:

15Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For everything in the worldthe cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and doescomes not from the Father but from the world.

26I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray.

///

Jude 1:

3Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints . . .

17But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18They said to you, "In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires." 19These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

20But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit. 21Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.
22Be merciful to those who doubt; 23snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fearhating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.

Doxology
24To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy[/quote]

"All men are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
25but the word of the Lord stands forever." And this is the word that was preached to you . . .

///

Revelation 1:

. . . 25Only hold on to what you have until I come.

21:

1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."[/quote]

Nihilismus · Nov 29, 2008

Polycarp_fan said:
Darwinism is the new flat earth.

How so?

Polycarp_fan · Nov 29, 2008

Nihilismus said:
How so?

The almighty holders of the darwinian faith, when challenged by questioning, spout excommunication like any good old tongs weilding inquisitor. Look at the post about the Christian girl flunking out of college because she didn't "believe in" evolution.

But this thread is about Christians getting the heck away from homosexuals, as they should. There is no need to interact with those that hate with such a passion.

Go darwinian Christian-bashing in a new thread if you wish to feed that dictator.

Should Christians interact with Gays at all?

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