Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
For God will be found by all that “want” Him.
I'm sorry, but this is just delusional and not how reality works.
If a "born again" christian later in life becomes a muslim or an atheist... then continueing to call him a christian makes very little sense.
The problem with that approach for me is that I went through some psychosis several years ago. There may have been some genuine spiritual experience mixed with the psychosis, but it also may have been entirely psychosis. It wasn't like most people describe psychosis, but each person's psychosis is probably a customized expression of their own personality. ... The strange thing about my experience was the intermittency. Most people with psychosis have difficulty functioning and need medication. For me it was like lightning strike dramatic hallucinations every few weeks and then delusional beliefs were spawned by those hallucinations. But I never missed a day of work, and nobody could tell anything was wrong with me during that year or so.Well ... for what it's worth, intellectual and/or philosophical pursuit of God has not proven profitable for anyone I know personally.
To be honest, even if you "prove" to yourself by logic or philosophy that God exists, that still isn't faith. Even the demons believe, and they have personal experience of God - and it does nothing to "save" them.
I think we sometimes get too caught up in intellectual belief and proofs and such because of the way the Scriptures are translated in English.
Faith in God does require belief, but every person I know that I've gotten into the heart of the process with them - has been an experiential process of coming to know God. Even if a person begins with intellectual belief, they need to progress to KNOWING God through experience.
Beginning this process usually starts with a willingness and sincerely seeking. Usually without challenging God in one's own pride. (God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.) I say usually because sometimes for His own reasons, God does intervene even for those with a prideful approach. But usually openness and humility is fruitful.
Sincerely wanting God and knowing we need him is the best frame for seeking. And once a person has experienced God, especially repeatedly and in different ways, it becomes impossible NOT to believe. It's like trying to believe your mother doesn't exist.
This has been my experience and what I know from others.
If someone really "wants" to believe something, he'll find a way to rationalize it.
It's the human psych.
And it's not a rational enterprise.
Jesus said “ye must be born again” this is what makes one a Christian. What happens afterwords does not change the fact the “new birth” has happened. For the “new creation” or the “new birth” is why Christ died. To bring us the new birth, without it no one can live in heaven. For it’s the new birth that makes one capable of living there.
Much love in Christ, Not me
Sure, it’s not so much a proof as it is a challenge to theists to take on the burden of proof. Even if you can’t disprove premise 2, the best it gets you is to agnostic atheism, not hard atheism.Sorry, but imo that conclusion does not follow.
It can also be that evidence exists, but that it simply hasn't been discovered yet.
True.
But that’s not what we’re talking about here.
For God will be found by all that “want” Him.
We’re talking about how one may “know” God exists.
I do want to know. That’s why I’m interested in hearing if there’s a rebuttal to my argument. That would let me know.So you really don’t want to know if He does exist? Curious.
Much love in Christ, Not me
Step 2 in that proof isn't clear to me. I like your reasoning otherwise. I might change step 1 to say "If God exists and God is relevant to humans then there will be evidence that God exists." Lots of irrelevant Gods can be imagined that would not leave evidence.
So you really don’t want to know if He does exist?
You can believe whatever you want off course.
Nevertheless, the fact remains.... calling a muslim, hindu, scientologist, atheist,... a "christian", simply because he converted and subsequently deconverted from christianity at some point in his life, is completely meaningless.
I do want to know. That’s why I’m interested in hearing if there’s a rebuttal to my argument. That would let me know.
1+1=2 is a matter of language, not truth you come to know through experience.If you really do want to know, than all you have to “do” is to do righteousness in all things. For He waits in righteousness, to bless those willing to walk in righteousness. It’s really that simple. But you will have to “do” something to know.
If it helps, will will “know” God exists just like you “know” one and one is two. (by experience)
Let me explain; someone or something told you, one and one is two. You took that information and applied it in your life and than by “experience” you came to “know” it’s true. You will come to “know” the truth of God the same way.
Much love in Christ, Not me
Should a person who transitioned from believing Christian to disbelieving ex-Christian be able to clearly explain why this happened? For example, "I became convinced that such and such essential Christian belief is false."
Many atheists will say that the burden of proof is on Christians and non-belief should be the default when the proof is absent. But ex-Christians are a special type of non-believers. They are not blank slates waiting for verifiable truths to be written upon them. They have scribbled-out their previous writing, and it seems to me that this scribbling might require some explanation to be considered justifiable.
When I try to ask myself why I don't believe, I can only shrug my shoulders. I just don't believe anymore. I'm not sure why. This bugs me.
There “is” a starting point for a Christian, it is the new birth. This is what makes one a Christian. Once the new birth has happened, it has happened. Can never be undone. This is why Jesus said “you “must” be born again. This is that which makes one a Christian or not.
1+1=2 is a matter of language, not truth you come to know through experience.
We’ve spoken before about righteousness and you failed to explain to me what that was, so your suggestion that all I have to do is “walk in righteousness” is incoherent gibberish. If you really wanted to let me know, you’d attack premise 2 of my argument.
My teacher didn't just tell me that. My teacher also demonstrated it.Let me explain; someone or something told you, one and one is two.
You took that information and applied it in your life and than by “experience” you came to “know” it’s true
You will come to “know” the truth of God the same way.
Gee, I could swear that actually believing in god and the bible, were one of the main requirements to be called a christian.
To call someone a christian while that person does NOT believe in the christian god, jesus, the bible, the NT,..... what is the point?
Question, how did you come to know one and one is two?
“Righteousness” is “that which is right.”
Go and “do” this and you will “know the truths of God”
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?