Did Shepherds Really Break a Lamb's Leg on Purpose?

[probinson]

I'm not so sure God "brakes" us either. I mean, come on, 2/3 of God's name is GO!

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I'm not so sure God "brakes" us either. I mean, come on, 2/3 of God's name is GO!

But the brakes are put on those who are unruley and continue to stray. Not on those who listen to the Shepherd and do as they have been taught by Him.

I don't think though that every trouble can be labeled as a "brake". Just living life has some troubles. It's just part of life. I guess we need to seek discernment from God in knowing the difference between a "brake" that God has put on us and a "break" that our enemy has put on us. We can follow His guidence to have the "brake" removed, and the other we can rebuke in Jesus name and run the damned to hell satan/devils over.

 

[Tamara224]

I'm not so sure God "brakes" us either. I mean, come on, 2/3 of God's name is GO!

Seriously, though... God's Name isn't 'God' ... that's more of a 'label' actually.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

A lie? From the pit of hell, no less? Better be careful with the way you use careless words, DW, someone (I mean, Someeone) is listening.

But why is it a “lie” (from the pit of hell, no less)? Because it does not jive with a lopsided doctrine of God you have been taught that says that God can only be good when He is at your beck and call, doing only the things that give you pleasure, and indulging you with every toy you want?

Is God good when He chastens you, DW (Heb. 12.5-6)?

Is God still good when those chastenings are painful (Heb. 12.11)?

Was He good to Job when the devil said, “stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has,” and God replied, “Behold, all that he has is in your power” (Job 1.9-12)?

Was God good when He allowed patriarchs to be tortured, mocked, beaten, imprisoned, sawn in two, stoned, hacked to death, needy, destitute, afflicted, tormented (Hebrews 11.35-38)?

Was God good to Paul when He refused to remove the thorn in the flesh from him (2 Cor. 12.7-10)?

Apparently you work under the false assumption (i.e., the doctrine of men) that God can only be “good” when you are benefiting from Him, that God is only "good" when He “blesses” you but when misfortune happens then it must be the devil. Someone once said in this forum that the 'unpardonable sin' is calling God’s truth a lie (attributing to the devil the works of the Lord). I don’t necessarily agree with that, but I will say that you are on thin ice when you are crediting the doings of the Lord to the devil and the things that come from the hand of God as being “from the pits of hell.”

I am sure the devil thanks you.

But to me, it’s scary. Just don't stand too close to me when you make these kind of observations, DW ...



~Jim

Being as satan IS a liar I feel that all lies are technically from where he lives. So I would consider any lie taught from the pulpit as from there too.

God IS good no matter what may be happening around us or to us. Our troubles and struggles in life do in no way undo His goodness. One thing we can be assured of I believe is "He has plans for us that are good and not evil". Truth is not our perception of what's going on it's HIS.

I can't say that all that is going on in my life is good. But I can still confidently proclaim "God IS good!"

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I wonder if the Israelite shepherds practised braking the lambs legs. I know the writer says that it is practised in some sheep raring nations.

Also, I do not think God brakes our legs to prevent us "rogue" ones from breaking away and until we can learn our names and not fear the shepherd. Yes, we are sheep but not sheep sheep as in animals.

I think of the story of the prodigal son and I don't see God's heart as one of braking His children's leg, no matter how prodigal they are. The father simply gave the son his share of the inheritance and let him go. He didn't put some "weight" on him to slow him down or anything like that.

In fact, if there is anything that weighs the believer down and controls his outward behaviour but not transform his heart, it is the heavy yoke of the law which no one can bear.

Also, doesn't the author of hebrews say, "Let us throw off every weight and the sin [in the context, the sin of unbelief] that so easily entangles and let us run with perserverance..." (Heb 12:1)

Wouldn't you consider the prodigal son waking up in a pig slough as a "brake" point?

As far as the Heb 12:1 scripture goes, that would fit perfectly with the idea of a "brake" having been applied. The brake comes from disobedience, while the "throwing off of it" comes from obedience. It may not come off immediately, but perseverence in obedience to Him will throw it off.

 

[Christina M]

Wouldn't you consider the prodigal son waking up in a pig slough as a "brake" point?
.

I don't.

I consider it consequences for his actions.... and then coming to his senses.

But the brakes are put on those who are unruley and continue to stray. Not on those who listen to the Shepherd and do as they have been taught by Him.

Exaclty, Quaffer!

This, too, is not God putting on the brakes.... it is consequences of being unruly and straying.

The same with all those scriptures Jim M keeps posting about sickness and suffering and God putting it on people.. . First off, those are only referencing disobedient and rebellious people. Second, God tells us in His Word what to do to avoid those sad consequences.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

And he came to his senses why? Because the brakes got applied.

So, what do you say is God putting on brakes then? If there are unlikable consequences to our actions how is that not "the brakes"? The brakes (as in a devise that helps you stop when you need to) are a good thing (not breaks). If one will not walk in obedience, then I believe God will step in and intervene. In my experience that has always played out as me suffering the consequences of my actions...God applying brakes.

Yes, God tells us how to avoid the brakes. But if we refuse, He loves us enough to allow our actions to set in action what happens as a result of disobedience. I don't believe He "puts" those chains on us but our disobedience does.

 

[JimB]

Being as satan IS a liar I feel that all lies are technically from where he lives. So I would consider any lie taught from the pulpit as from there too.

God IS good no matter what may be happening around us or to us. Our troubles and struggles in life do in no way undo His goodness. One thing we can be assured of I believe is "He has plans for us that are good and not evil". Truth is not our perception of what's going on it's HIS.

I can't say that all that is going on in my life is good. But I can still confidently proclaim "God IS good!"

Well put, Q.

One thing I might add is that a lie is a lie when it is deliberate. We are too free to call each other liars (which is, IMO, a judgment of someone’s character). Because a person makes an erroneous statement does not mean they are lying.

Or does it? (Remember, I use a standard English dictionary.)

~Jim

 

[JimB]

*****
The same with all those scriptures Jim M keeps posting about sickness and suffering and God putting it on people.. .
*****

O Lord, please help me to stop using scripture that is offensive to some in this forum. Sincerely yours, Jim M

 

[probinson]

O Lord, please help me to stop using scripture that is offensive to some in this forum. Sincerely yours, Jim M

The scripture is not offensive, nor did Christina say or even imply that it was.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Well put, Q.

One thing I might add is that a lie is a lie when it is deliberate. We are too free to call each other liars (which is, IMO, a judgment of someone’s character). Because a person makes an erroneous statement does not mean they are lying.

Or does it? (Remember, I use a standard English dictionary.)

~Jim

A story, if untrue is a lie. If the person telling it does not know it's a lie I would not call them a liar. As you've said, a liar is someone who deliberately tells an untruth knowing it's an untruth.

 

[HopfrogX]

Great post!

 

[DiscipleWhomJesusLoves]

Thank you DiscipleWhomJesusLoves.

No breaking and no braking.

I know that when God shows me new things, reveals more of Himself and His ways, it causes me to grow through joy, freedom, delight - lightness in my inner being, not weight and darkness.

So much I keep hearing God send trials, God sends trials, God sends trials...

I know it isn't true, because of the way He's begun to shown me He works in my life, yet when horrible things happen it's hard to keep standing on the truth, because I believed for years, both before I came to Christ and after, that He would "hurt me for my own good."

I recognise the pain I am going through now as the enemy trying to steal from me what God has done, to destroy my life, and ultimately to kill me.

That's NOT God's work! He is my Deliverer, He is lifting the burden, He is taking the pain upon Himself.
He doesn't give me heaviness - He is Light, He doesn't give me the darkness and confusion - He pours Light and clarity into my situation.

A good shepherd may have to resort to strange means to nurture his sheep, but our Shepherd is the Best Shepherd, and He always leads with kindness - if anyone doubts that - LOOK!

1 Cor. 13:

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.

5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Gal. 5:

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

God is LOVE. He fits the above descriptions perfectly, and that is how He works, always.

I lift up my eyes to the hills, where does mt help come from? My help comes from the LORD...

Amen!

What does the Word say, "He leads me beside still waters and lays me down on green pastures."

And even if you should stray and walk through the valley of the shadow of death, what does the Word say, "He is with you, His rod (for wacking those wolves!) and staff (to hook you up and out of the pit), they comfort you!"

Praise God, no breaking no braking. For these are the ways of the devil.

 

[DiscipleWhomJesusLoves]

Wouldn't you consider the prodigal son waking up in a pig slough as a "brake" point?

As far as the Heb 12:1 scripture goes, that would fit perfectly with the idea of a "brake" having been applied. The brake comes from disobedience, while the "throwing off of it" comes from obedience. It may not come off immediately, but perseverence in obedience to Him will throw it off.

How you are defining it is different from what the OP or writer of the Sheep Mag said. He's talking about a weight to slow the sheep down. You know, like chaining a metal bowling ball to your leg so you don't stray to far. Of course, the disadvantage of that too, as explained, is that the sheep can't run away fast enough too should a predator come.

So all I'm saying is that God doesn't do this to us today. He doesn't tie or weigh us down so we would be good. It's not His style.

As for the prod son, I see it more as a turning point, not some form of "braking" as defined in the OP.

 

[Svt4Him]

Yet I do it to my children all the time. Ask them how much I limit their freedom until they learn things.

And a sheep can't run away fast enough if the enemy isn't seen. God really has no problem seeing any enemy, so I think the analogy is perfectly just. And the rod isn't just for wacking wolves, it's also used to wack sheep. (my friend had his arm broken by one of his, kind of ironic thinking about the OP)

As for the sheep story, if it's a lie, and satan is the father of all lies, then I don't really know if God is going to strick someone down for agreeing with Him. It's a lie that sheep get their legs broken so they are more 'in line'. Who again is the father of all lies?

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Amen!

What does the Word say, "He leads me beside still waters and lays me down on green pastures."

In the same scripture reference it also says, "thy rod and thy staff they comfort me"

The Good Shepherd is able to head off the wolfs when He's had to apply the brake or the rod to a disobedient sheep. He is the same yesterday, today, and FOREVER!

I don't think I'm appliying it differently than the Sheep Magazine responder at all. To me it all fits together quite nicely with scripture.

 

[bithiah2]

I really looked into this,

I found lots of preachers and commentators who use this as an illustration, but, I could not find any reference to it from any source on shepherds and raising sheep. (currently or historically)

I guess it is possible that the term “brake” has been misunderstood to mean “break”

In any event, personally I have no problem with the concept either way.

I think that God could “break” my leg in order to “brake” my behavior. But, it’s not fair to say shepherds “break” the legs of their sheep if one can’t produce an actual example of the practice.

John O.

a lot of pastors/shepherds "break" legs, arms, and hearts when they don't preach the Word and mistreat the people they are supposed to be leading by rudeness, being "untouchable" to everyone but the chosen few who give the most money or are "stars" or worse, by sleeping with the church members...
i have seen it all.
but i still go to church.
this was a good article, i just wanted to raise that point.
bithiah2

 

[Svt4Him]

I once heard breaking isn't like breaking a glass it's like breaking a horse.

 

[DiscipleWhomJesusLoves]

In the same scripture reference it also says, "thy rod and thy staff they comfort me"

The Good Shepherd is able to head off the wolfs when He's had to apply the brake or the rod to a disobedient sheep. He is the same yesterday, today, and FOREVER!

I don't think I'm appliying it differently than the Sheep Magazine responder at all. To me it all fits together quite nicely with scripture.

It may fit with scripture mixture. But not scripture without mixture.

 

[KleinerApfel]

I once heard breaking isn't like breaking a glass it's like breaking a horse.

There are ways to train a horse without "breaking" we mostly just can't be bothered to spend time and effort to do it that way I guess. Fortunately God's patience greatly exceeds ours.