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Share good examples of Christian Science

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The IbanezerScrooge

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I could just as easily make the same claim about you. I’ve already explain that I will seek explanations that support the scriptures not evidence that refutes them. That something that should be expected from a believer.

That's backward and not science. You don't look for evidence to only support your pre-accepted beliefs. You look at ALL evidence and draw appropriate conclusions from it whether it supports what you already believe or not.
 
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Aussie Pete

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He did this in a video, and not in a peer reviewed publication like an actual scientist would?
He has invited anyone to debate the issue with him. So far, one person has responded. Many others have tried to refute him. Obviously not the same thing.

Jim Tour is a genius, one of the most awarded and respected scientists on the planet. He does not need to talk about OOL or evolution. He could get on with repairing severed spinal cords, making graphene at low cost, his nanomachinery inventions and a host of other patented tools to make life better. I'm delighted that someone of his stature dares to take on those who blindly follow Darwin and those who subscribe to his racist and elitist theories. Somehow he manages to find time to do both.
 
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Aussie Pete

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Shoot - I also linked Prof. Dave's video - should have read through the whole thread first!
Professor Tour responded to Prof Dave's video. Jim Tour demolishes him.
 
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BNR32FAN

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That's backward and not science. You don't look for evidence to only support your pre-accepted beliefs. You look at ALL evidence and draw appropriate conclusions from it whether it supports what you already believe or not.

Not if your a believer. A believer will reject everything that is refuted by God’s word because he believes God’s word over all else. Science is not the authority on truth, God is. Science has been proven wrong time after time. God never has and never will be proven wrong.
 
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Hans Blaster

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It's like you *almost* get that technology is cumulative and self-accelerating, but you're just so dedicated to your narrative that you can't see it.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Professor Tour responded to Prof Dave's video. Jim Tour demolishes him.

Oddly enough, the first video I ever saw about James Tour was Prof. Dave's response to Tour's response. In it Prof. Dave illustrates how Tour squeals like a stuck pig and is utterly wrong. Tour's indignation rises almost to the level of WLC when he is challenged.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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I’ve already explain that I will seek explanations that support the scriptures not evidence that refutes them. That something that should be expected from a believer.
If that's really the way you feel, why waste your time in the science forums?
 
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BNR32FAN

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If that's really the way you feel, why waste your time in the science forums?

To discuss young earth and evolution with other Christians. If you don’t want to discuss these topics with people who believe the scriptures why waste your time posting on a Christian forum?
 
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pitabread

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To discuss young earth and evolution with other Christians. If you don’t want to discuss these topics with people who believe the scriptures why waste your time posting on a Christian forum?

FYI, but there is a Christian-only section on this forum. If you just want to discuss with other Christians, you might want to try there.

This particular section is open to both Christian and non-Christians.
 
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pitabread

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God never has and never will be proven wrong.

Given the multitude of beliefs about God, they all can't right. Especially when said beliefs contradict.

From there, it's only a hop, skip and a jump to all of them being equally wrong.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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To discuss young earth and evolution with other Christians. If you don’t want to discuss these topics with people who believe the scriptures why waste your time posting on a Christian forum?
I'm in the science forums mainly to help get the science right (save people wasting time arguing over incorrect ideas), to learn how science can be distorted, to have my views challenged, to learn how believers accommodate science (or not), and out of curiosity why the belief system 'took' with believers but not with me.
 
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pitabread

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‘Regular’ science is today defined as atheist science - with a presupposition of materialism and naturalism.

Until someone invents a way to test the supernatural, methodological naturalism is all we've got.
 
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sjastro

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You are not making any sense.
The wheel is the key to your hypothesis and since the indigenous Australians never possessed the wheel your hypothesis fails full stop.

I also notice how you refuse to address the issue about fires.
Your hypothesis makes a simple prediction, there should be no evidence of fires being older than 6000 years irrespective of whether humans were involved or not.
The oldest evidence of a wildfire comes from the fossils of charcoalified plants from the late Silurian era dated 420 million years ago.

In anticipation of the expected excuse the dating is wrong when humans were involved in the making of hearths up to 50000 years ago, two independent dating methods can be employed.
Fires that cause rocks to heat up can be dated using luminescence dating and charcoal using carbon-14.
Where both methods are available the dates are generally consistent with some exceptions which can be explained.
 
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tas8831

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According to the genealogy records in the scriptures the earth is only 6,000 years old. That means only 4,000 of those years were BC. So 3,500 BC would be 500 years after creation.
Perhaps you can explain why you think if creation happened it took 500 years for fully modern humans with perfect genomes and superior knowledge* to invent the wheel?


*these are things forum creationists have claimed at one time or another.
 
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tas8831

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How about you provide evidence that life spontaneously arose. You cannot.
Interesting to see creationists ask things like this when they know that they cannot and will not ever be able to do the same for their mere beliefs about the OOL.

I cannot provide this, as we are not yet there in our research. Despite what propagandists will say, OOL research is actually not well funded and relatively few groups are working on it. He is one group's work, however:

Astrobiology and Origins of Life
2021
Tu, V.M., et al. Bridges (2021) A review of the phyllosilicates in Gale Crater as detected by the CheMin instrument on the Mars Science Laboratory, Curiosity rover. Minerals, in press.

Hazen, R.M., and Morrison, S.M. (2021) Mineralogical environments of the Hadean Eon: Templates for the Origins of Life? In: A. Neubeck and S. McMahon, Eds., Prebiotic Chemistry and the Origin of Life. Springer. In press.
2020
Hao, J., Knoll, A.H., Huang, F., Hazen, R.M., and Daniel, I. (2020) Cycling phosphorus on the Archean Earth: Part I. Continental weathering and riverine transport of phosphorus, Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta, 273, 70-84.

Hao, J., Knoll, A.H., Huang, F., Schieber, J., Hazen, R.M., and Daniel, I. (2020) Cycling phosphorus on the Archean Earth: Part II. Phosphorus limitation on primary production in Archean ecosystems, Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta, 280, 360-377.

Rampe, E.B., et al. (2020) Mineralogy of Vera Rubin Ridge from the Mars Science Laboratory CheMin instrument. Journal of Geophysical Research – Planets, 125, e2019JE006306.

Johnson, S., Graham, H., Des Marais, D.J., and Hazen, R.M. (2020) Detecting life on Earth and the limits of analogy. In Planetary Astrobiology (V. Meadows et al., eds.), pp. 121–150. Univ. of Arizona, Tucson, DOI: 10.2458/azu_uapress_9780816540068-ch005.

Castle, N., et al. (2020) Detection and Quantification of Minor Phases in CheMin X-Ray Diffraction Results from Mars. ACS Earth and Space Chemistry, in press.

Morris, R.V., et al. (2020) Hydrothermal precipitation of sanidine (adularia) having full Al,Si structural disorder and specular hematite at Maunakea Volcano (Hawai’i) and Gale Crater (Mars). Journal of Geophysical Research – Planets, 125, e2019JE006324. Error - Cookies Turned Off

Rampe, E.B., et al. Mineralogy and geochemistry of sedimentary rocks and aeolian sediments in Gale crater, Mars: a review after six Earth years of exploration with Curiosity. Geochemistry (Chemie der Erde), 80, 12605.

Achilles, C.N, et al. (2020) Evidence for Multiple Diagenetic Episodes in Ancient Fluvial-Lacustrine Sedimentary Rocks in Gale Crater, Mars. Journal of Geophysical Research – Planets, 125, e2019JE006295. Error - Cookies Turned Off

Fornaro, T., Brucato, J.R., Poggiali, G., Corazzi, M.A., Biczysko, M., Jaber, M., Foustoukos, D., Hazen, R.M., and Steele, A. (2020) UV Irradiation and near infrared characterization of laboratory Mars soil analog samples. Frontiers in Astronomy and Space Sciences. UV Irradiation and Near Infrared Characterization of Laboratory Mars Soil Analog Samples
2019
Estrada, C,, Sverjensky, D.A., and Hazen, R.M. (2019) Selective adsorption of aspartate facilitated by calcium on [Mg(OH)2]-brucite. ACS Earth and Space Chemistry, 3, 1-7. DOI: 10.1021/acsearthspacechem.8b00081

Chan, M.A., et al. (2019) Deciphering biosignatures in planetary contexts. Astrobiology, 19, 28 p. doi: 10.1089/ast.2018.1903

Hao, J., Sverjensky, D.A., and Hazen, R.M. (2019) Redox states of Archean surficial environments: the importance of H2,g instead of O2,g for weathering reactions, Chemical Geology, 521, 49-58.

2018

Moore, E.K., Hao, J., Sverjensky, D.A., Jelen, B.I., Meyer, M., Hazen, R.M., and Falkowski, P.G. (2018) Geological and chemical factors that impacted the biological utilization of cobalt in the Archean Eon. Journal of Geophysical Research Biogeosciences,123, 743-759. DOI: 10.1002/2017G004067

Fornaro, T., Brucato, J.R., Feuillie, C., Sverjenski, D.A., Hazen, R.M., Brunetto, R., D’Amore, M., Barone, V. (2018) Binding of nucleic acid components to the serpentinite-hosted hydrothermal mineral brucite. Astrobiology, 18, 19 p. DOI: 10.1089/ast.2017.1784

Vaniman, D.T., et al. (2018) Gypsum, bassanite, and anhydrite at Gale crater, Mars. American Mineralogist, 103, 1011-1020.

Muscente, A.D., Prabhu, A., Zhong, H., Eleish, A., Meyer, M.B., Fox, P., Hazen, R.M., and Knoll, A.H. (2018) Quantifying ecological impacts of mass extinctions with network analysis of fossil communities. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, doi = 10.1073/pnas.1719976115.

Rampe, E.B., et al. (2018) Sand mineralogy of the Bagnold Dunes, Gale crater, as observed in situ and from orbit. Geophysical Research Letters, 45, 9488-9497.

Fornaro, T., Boosman, A., Brucato, J.R., Loes ten Kate, I., Siljestrom, S., Poggiali, G., Steele, A., and Hazen, R.M. (2018) UV irradiation of biomarkers adsorbed on minerals under Martian-like conditions: hints for life detection on Mars. Icarus, 313, 38-60.

Bristow, T. F., et al. (2018) Clay mineral diversity and abundance in sedimentary rocks of Gale crater, Mars, Science Advances, 4, eaar3330.

2017

Jiang, W., Pacella, M.S., Athanasiadou, D., Nelea, V., Vali, H., Hazen, R.M., Gray, J.J., and McKee, M.D. (2017) Chrial acidic amino acids induce chiral hierarchical structure in calcium carbonate. Nature Communications, 8, 15066.

Estrada, C.E., I. Mamajanov, J. Hao, D.A. Sverjensky, G.D. Cody, and R.M. Hazen (2017) Aspartate transformation at 200°C with brucite [Mg(OH)2], NH3, and H2: Implications for prebiotic molecules in hydrothermal systems. Chemical Geology, 457, 162-172.

Rampe, E.B., et al.. (2017) Mineralogy of an ancient lacustrine mudstone succession from the Murray formation, Gale crater, Mars. Earth and Planetary Science Letters, 471, 172-185.

Hao, J., D. A. Sverjensky, and R. M. Hazen (2017) A model for late Archean chemical weathering and world average river water, Earth and Planetary Science Letters, 457,191-203.

Hao, J., D. A. Sverjensky, and R. M. Hazen (2017) Mobility of nutrients and trace metals during weathering in the late Archean, Earth and Planetary Science Letters, 471, 148-159.

Hazen, R.M. (2017) Chance, necessity, and the origins of life: A physical sciences perspective. Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society A375, 20160353. DOI: 10.1098/rsta.2016.0353

Estrada, C., Sverjensky, D.A., and Hazen, R.M. (2017) Cooperative and inhibited adsorption of D-ribose with Ca2+ and Mg2+ onto brucite [Mg(OH)2] with divalent cations. ACS Earth Space Chemistry 1, 591-600.

Achilles, C.N, et al. (2017) Mineralogy of an active Eolian sediment from the Namib Dune, Gale Crater, Mars. Journal of Geophysical Research, Planets, 122, 2344-2361.

Moore EK, Hao J, Sverjensky DA, Jelen BI, Meyer M, Hazen RM and Falkowski PG Geological and chemical factors that impacted the biological utilization of cobalt in the Archean Eon. (in review)

Hao J, Sverjensky DA and Hazen RM Limits on the partial pressure of H2 in the Archean atmosphere during weathering of basaltic minerals. Geochemica et Cosmochimica Acta (in review)

Estrada C, Sverjensky DA and Hazen RM Selective adsorption of calcium-aspartate ligands onto [Mg(OH)2]-brucite: Implications for calcium in prebiotic chemistry. Astrobiology (in review)

Estrada C, Sverjensky DA and Hazen RM Enhanced and inhibited adsorption of D-ribose with Ca2+ and Mg2+ onto brucite [Mg(OH)2]. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta (in review)

Hazen RM Chance, necessity, and the origins of life. Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society A (in review)

Estrada CE, Mamajanov I, Hao J, Sverjensky DA, Cody GD and Hazen RM (2017) Aspartate transformation at 200 °C with brucite [Mg(OH)2], NH3, and H2: Implications for prebiotic molecules in hydrothermal systems. Chemical Geology 457:162-172

Gherase D, Hazen RM, Krishnamurthy R and Blackmond DG (2017) Mineral-Induced Enantioenrichment of Tartaric Acid. Synlett 28(1):89-92

Wenge J, Pacella MS, Athanasiadou D, Nelea V, Vali H, Hazen RM, Gray JJ, McKee MD (2017) Chiral acidic amino acids induce chiral hierarchical structure in calcium carbonate. Nature Communications 8:15066

2016

Ertem G, Ertem MC, McKay CP and Hazen RM (2016) Shielding biomolecules from effects of radiation by Mars analogue minerals and soils. Astrobiology 6(3):280-285

Grew ES, Krivovichev SV, Hazen RM and Hystad G (2016) Evolution of structural complexity in boron minerals. Canadian Mineralogist 54(1):125-143

2015

Liu X-M, Kah LC, Knoll AH, Cui H, Kaufman AJ, Shahar A and Hazen RM (2015) Tracing Earth’s O2 evolution using Zn/Fe ratios in marine carbonates. Geochemical Perspective Letters 2(1):24-34

Estrada C, Sverjensky DA, Pelletier M, Razafitianamharavo A, Hazen RM (2015) Interaction between L-aspartate and the brucite [Mg(OH)2]-water interface. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 155:172-186

Grosch EG, Hazen RM (2015) Microbes, mineral evolution, and the rise of micro-continents: Origin and co-evolution of life with early Earth. Astrobiology 15(10):922-939

Nance JR, Armstrong JT, Cody GD, Fogel ML, Hazen RM (2015) Preserved shell-binding protein and associated pigment in the Middle Miocene (8 to 18 Ma) gastropod Ecphora. Geochemical Perspectives Letters 1:1-8

Grew ES, Dymek RF, De Hoog JCM, Harley SL, Boak JM, Hazen RM and Yates MG (2015) Boron isotopes in tourmaline from the ca. 3.7–3.8 Ga Isua supracrustal belt, Greenland: Sources for boron in Eoarchean continental crust and seawater. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 163:156-177

2014

Hazen RM (2014) Enantioselective adsorption on rock-forming minerals: A thought experiment. Surface Science 629:11-14

Lee N, Foustoukos DI, Sverjensky DA, Cody GD, Hazen RM (2014) The effects of temperature, ph and redox state on the stability of glutamic acid in hydrothermal fluids. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 135:66-86

Lee N, Sverjensky DA, Hazen RM (2014) Cooperative and competitive adsorption of amino acids with Ca2+ on rutile (α-TiO2). Environmental Science and Technology 48:9358-9365

Lee N, Foustoukos DI, Sverjensky DA, Cody GD, Hazen RM (2014) Hydrogen enhances the stability of amino acids in hydrothermal environments. Chemical Geology 386:184-189



2013

Livi KJT, Schaffer B, Azzolini D, Seabourne CR, Hardcastle TP, Scott AJ, Hazen RM, Erlebacher JD, Brydson R, Sverjensky DA (2013) Atomic scale roughness of rutile and implications for molecular surface adsorption. Langmuir 29:6876-6883

Noffke N, Christian D, Wacey D, Hazen RM (2013) Microbially induced sedimentary structures recording an ancient ecosystem in the ca. 3.48 billion-year-old Dresser Formation, Pilbara, Western Australia. Astrobiology Journal 13(12):1103-1124

Hazen RM (2013) Paleomineralogy of the Hadean Eon: A preliminary species list. American Journal of Science 313(9):807-843

2012

Hazen RM (2012) Geochemical origins of life. Fundamentals of Geobiology, eds Knoll AH, Canfield DE, Konhauser KO (Wiley-Blackwell, Oxford) pp 315-332

Hazen RM (2012) An accident waiting to happen (That’s Life). Eureka, The Times 33:14-19

Cleaves II HJ, Scott AM, Hill FC, Leszczynski J, Sahai N, Hazen RM (2012) Mineral-organic interfacial processes: potential roles in the origins of life. Chemical Society Reviews 41:5502-5525

Lee N, Hummer DR, Sverjensky DS, Rajh T, Hazen RM, Steele A, Cody GD (2012) Speciation of L-DOPA on nanorutile as a function of pH and surface coverage using surface-enhance Raman spectroscopy (SERS). Langmuir 28:17322-17330

2011

Bahri S, Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Azzolini D, Sverjensky DA, Hazen RM (2011) Adsorption and surface complexation study of L-DOPA on rutile (TiO2) in NaCl solutions. Environmental Science and Technology 45:3959-3966

Grew ES, Bada JL, Hazen RM (2011) Borate minerals and the origin of the RNA world. Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere 41:307-316

Parikh SJ, Kubicki JD, Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Hazen RM, Sverjensky DA, Sparks DL (2011) Evaluating glutamate and aspartate binding mechanisms to rutile (a-TiO2) via ATR-FTIR spectroscopy and quantum chemical calculations. Langmuir 27:1778-1787

Cleaves II HJ, Crapster-Pregont E, Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Sverjensky DA, Hazen RM (2011) The adsorption of short single-stranded DNA oligomers to mineral surfaces. Chemosphere 8:1560–1567

Livi KJT, Schaffer B, Azzolini D, Seabourne CR, Sader K, Shannon M, Sverjensky D, Hazen RM, Brydson R (2011) Imaging the surface of Rutile by STEM and its implication for organic molecule bonding. Proceedings of the Microscopy Conference 2011 (MC2011), August 28-September 02, Kiel/Germany, p M6_P621

This is just from the last 10 years.
I eagerly await your similar list of publications from creation scientists researching the mechanisms of Jehovah creation.
Because it did not. Because it cannot.
Unsupported overconfident assertions are so... creationisty.
Nobody browbeats me. My atheist father tried to convince me that evolution was true. Even as a child it made no sense to me.
Interesting. I had the opposite views as a child. Then, I was very science-minded even as a kid.
I was not raised a Christian.
Who browbeat you into thinking the universe is no more than 10,000 years old despite the reams of contrary evidence?
I don't have to disprove OOL theories. They fall apart all on their own.
Which means that you lack the wherewithal to do so, yet are supremely confident in your assertion.
Dr. Dunning? Meet Dr. Kruger.
 
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tas8831

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You did not then. Okay.
That you cannot point to any single issue, and that you think that all that view this will be as ignorant and gullible as creationist-types, tells me that you didn't watch it.
 
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tas8831

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Yes, quite an explosion. That is how things tend to work. Taking the YEC view, 4000 years - no powered flight. Then, just over 50 after we have rocket planes breaking the sound barrier.
How does YECism explain THAT?????
 
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