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shalom, something to ask

wingcross

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Shalom,

I got baptised last year as a christian. I am not sure what i am. Later lot of things happen, I was no longer accepted in my church, ppl dun accept me anymore. Some misunderstandings which has no truth in it.
I find my fellow christians avoiding me. Most of them.

I been 'wandering' like a zombies around two months. I was badly depressed and perhaps almost end it with my ways. Basically I am still not mentality stable. Trying to gather my last strength to arise. Had dreams and whisperings. Then I found MJ, I am still not sure if i should belong to MJ or not. Not sure if the word belong is the right word. But i seems to be pulled towards MJ.

I think I am alone here. Not sure if they are other MJ in this town. I am in Malaysia. Is there any such MJ fellowship there ?

Another question is I am using CJB. I am a chinese. Is this bible appropriate ? before all this bad things happen, i noticed certain things is not right with other bibles. Some scriptures are removed in some version. In KJV or NKJV, Torah are not included and replaced with other words. Seems i am getting to the truth, i am getting more attack.

Strange it may seems, something is pulling me towards Israel. And I am alone here. I am pretty confused with myself. Words arent helping me much. I find myself getting immuned to it, maybe i need to get right with the right ppl.
 

visionary

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Bless your heart, you are not alone.... strange as it may sound, we can relate. ... for many of us have in following the truth ended up back up into this corner where we can stand on the truth and no other. When it happened to us, .. we too were confused as to why others could not see. We were also feeling alone and out of step with the world. We could not understand the sometimes venonmous attacks and cruelity with which we were cast aside. The spirit that lead others to behave was strange to our eyes and ears. We would go home and pray some more and study some more and seek to make sure that we read and understood the Word in the light of the Holy Spirit. We too, for many of us, been baptised a Christian. It is only in the Lord that we find our strength and convictions. You will too. You will find your mind cleared in the presence of the Lord. Go to Him. Ask for the Mount Sinai experience that Moses had. Ask Him for the Pentecost experience or the Damscus experience, so that you too can speak with convictions like Paul, Moses or any of the Apostles. Any of those experiences will give you mental, spiritual, and emotional strength that only the Lord can give. You will truly see, understand, and have the compassion and wisdom to do the good deeds that the Lord does.

We here at this corner welcome you. Please feel free to bring the struggles, the challlenges, the doctrines, the understandings and we will share with you what we have come to see and understand. Let there be harmony among the brethren. Let the Lord lead us all into the light. Bless your heart for hanging on to the Lord when things look so bleek right now. May the Lord place His loving arms around you and talk with you as one close friend, that you may know Him, trust Him, and love Him as much as He loves you. May you experience Rev 3:20 with a personal visit from Him who is the Holy One of Israel. May you talk to Him to your hearts content, and take that precious moment through the rest of your life, knowing that He is as real as any promises He makes.
 
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Wags

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You can check the international congregation listing found on YashaNet.

Another possible resource is TorahResource.com I know that Tim Hegg has presented seminars in Asia - I just can't remember exactly where. (Possibly he went to Korea since at least one of his book is translated into Korean.) But he might know of a messianic congregation in your area.

I have on occasion met other messianic beleivers from your country so I know you are not the only one.
 
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Wags

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wingcross said:
I notice everythng is Torah in CJB ... but when i check other bible, the contents is totally different.

Well the CJB was written to appeal to Jewish readers and therefore uses Jewish names and terms. It doesn't necessarily mean that something has been left out of the other bibles.
 
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Bananna

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If you want my opinion...Read every version of the bible you can understand then learn to translate Greek and Hebrew for yourself using the many tools available on line. Since none of the bibles can be understood simply by translating word for word, they take some liscense in telling us what is meant and even the Complete Jewish Bible is nothing more than a glorifed New International Version with Hebrew words substituted here and there. Do realize that all periods, commas and other punctuation are purely fictitious. Even the capitalization is not there. Context is everything.

Since we do not have original documents it is often difficult for us to tell what all has been added or taken away from the scriputes. I've noted more of a problem with Matthew through Revelation. The Newer Testaments were not as maticulously kept, because they were not originally considered scriptures.

JMO
 
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Bruce101

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wingcross said:
my previous pastor told me that this CJB is the closest as most of the hebrew words found in there remain unchanged to preserve the meanings.

IF one ask me, what denomination am I, what should i tell him ? a christian or a messianic believer or a messianic ?

Believer
 
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shmuel

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The Newer Testaments were not as maticulously kept, because they were not originally considered scriptures.

Actually the Tanakh was only meticulously keep only after the Masoretes standardized the text around 600 CE. Non-standard manuscripts were disposed of. That is why the Qumran find was so valuble. Qumran sheds light on the text as it existed in the time period immediately surrounding the life of Yeshua. There are, in fact, two text families for the Tanakh as a whole and three text families for Torah. The text family from which the LXX was translated is quite distinct from the proto-Masoretic text. We also know that the earliest books in the Tanakh were extensively editted to update the spelling and grammar.

We certainly have manuscripts for the NT that are much closer in time to the original manuscripts than we do for the Tanakh.
 
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shmuel

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Standard translation are quite reliable, while "home grown" translations done by persons who are unfamiliar with Hebrew grammar can be erroneous. Just this morning on a Sacred Name forum I dealt with the claim that the word "me" in the clause "and they will look on Me whom they pierced" in Zech 12:10 is a mistranslation. The problem was that the person was using an interlinear and thought that "me" resulted from a mistranslation of the particle "'et" that is used to indicate definite direct objects. However, the "me" is represented in the Hebrew by a yod suffix on the preposition "el", which means "to", "for", "toward", etc.

If you come to the text with the belief that standard translations are faulty, and you have little knowledge of the grammar or vocabulary then it is quite easy to produce a bad translation, while saying to yourself you are merely correcting a biased translation.

S
 
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shmuel

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I was asked in a PM for some references. Here is one dealing with the Tanakh:

http://www.bible-researcher.com/driver1.html

Here are some quotes from the article:

The Old Testament consists of a collection of works composed at various times from the twelfth to the second century B.C.; and much of it, e.g. genealogies, poems and stories, must have been handed down by word of mouth for many generations. It contains, however, scattered references to written texts; but how extensive or widely current these may have been cannot be said, as no manuscripts have survived from the period before the destruction of Jerusalem and the deportation of the Jews into exile in 587/6 B.C. The text therefore is not infrequently uncertain and its meaning obscure.

The whole Old Testament is written in classical Hebrew, except some brief portions which are in the Aramaic language (Ezra 4.8–6.18 and 7.12–26, Jeremiah 10.11, Daniel 2.4–7.28), a sister language which became the lingua franca of the Semitic world.

The earliest surviving form of the Hebrew text is perhaps that found in the Samaritan Pentateuch (Genesis–Deuteronomy). This text must date from a period before the secession of the Samaritans from Judaism, but it is preserved only in manuscripts the earliest of which is tentatively assigned to the eleventh century A.D. It differs from the orthodox Jewish text in some six thousand places, in about one third of which it agrees with the Greek translation, the Septuagint; a few of these differences are doctrinal or political in origin (e.g. Deuteronomy 27.4), a small number are helpful in difficult passages of the traditional Hebrew text, but the majority have little if any importance. The next witness to the Hebrew text is provided by the Scrolls from Qumran, commonly called the Dead Sea Scrolls, dated c. 150 B.C. to A.D. 75 or thereabouts. These include fragments, often minute, of every book in the Old Testament except Esther, one complete scroll of Isaiah and another of which approximately half has been lost, and a commentary on the first two chapters of Habakkuk containing most of their text. All these agree essentially with the 'received text' of the Old Testament except for orthographic variations or occasional variant readings hardly affecting the sense, and so suggest that stabilization of text is already beginning. Fragments, however, of Samuel and one of Jeremiah have a shortened form of the text like that of the Septuagint in these books. The only other fragment of this period is that known as the Nash Papyrus, which cannot be exactly dated, containing two excerpts from the Law (Exodus 20.2–17 and Deuteronomy 6.4–5); its chief interest is that the words are more or less clearly spaced.

Very few manuscripts are said to have survived the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. Soon after that disaster, therefore, the Jewish religious leaders set about defining the canon and finally standardizing the text. This last process went on for many centuries and resulted in the production of an eclectic text based on arbitrary rather than scientific principles. This was the Massoretic (so called from the Hebrew massorah, 'tradition') or traditional text found in all Hebrew Bibles.

This text was written in a purely consonantal alphabet, although the scribes at Qumran had already attempted to indicate the vowels by using certain letters for them (for example w for o and u, and y for e and i). This system, however, was soon found inadequate when, except in very restricted circles, the use of the old Hebrew language was dying out. Accordingly, in order to preserve the correct pronunciation in school and synagogue, the Massoretes inserted signs above or below or within the consonantal symbols to indicate this. Several systems are known, but that devised by the Rabbis of Tiberias (hence known as 'Tiberian') in the fifth to sixth centuries A.D. eventually prevailed. What they preserved, however, was not so much the original pronunciation as that current amongst themselves; further, however helpful these vowel-signs may have been, they are demonstrably not always correct. The present translators have therefore held themselves free to disregard the vowels and to re-vocalize the consonantal text wherever that seems desirable.

This text perpetuated not only genuine divergent readings but also numerous slips of the early copyists, made at a time when it was not copied with such meticulous care as in subsequent ages when it had come to be regarded as canonical and sacred; even then, however, many fresh errors found their way into it. The Rabbis soon felt the need to take account of and preserve any divergences that seemed to them important. They therefore listed a number of variant readings, omissions from and additions to the text as known to them, as well as possible corrections, which perhaps were often nothing but the conjectures of individual scribes. The consonants, however, were generally regarded as unalterable, and the usual method of indicating corrections adopted by the Massoretes was to attach the vowels of the word which they wished to be read to the consonants of that written in the text, although it might be an entirely different word.

......

The Hebrew text as thus edited by the Massoretes became virtually a single recension probably remaining substantially unaltered from the second century A.D., but this text has not survived in any manuscripts dated before the ninth to eleventh centuries A.D. Unsatisfactory as it may be, however, it is perforce reproduced in all printed Hebrew Bibles. These began to appear late in the fifteenth century, when printed copies of single books or groups of books came from various presses, followed by the first complete Bibles in 1488 and 1491; but the text of Jacob ben Chayyim's Rabbinic Bible (Venice, 1524–5) is that found in most modern Bibles. Collections of various readings were published in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, unfortunately taken from late manuscripts and therefore of relatively little value. The most-used modern edition, with selected variations from Hebrew manuscripts and the principal divergences in the ancient versions implying a different Hebrew text, together with emendations proposed by modern scholars, is the third edition of R. Kittel's Biblia Hebraica (Stuttgart, 1937). It is the basis of the present translation.

The Hebrew text as thus handed down is full of errors of every kind due to defective archetypes and successive copyists' errors, confusion of letters (of which several in the Hebrew alphabet are singularly alike), omissions and insertions, displacements of words and even of whole sentences or paragraphs; and copyists' unhappy attempts to rectify mistakes have often only increased the confusion. (my emphasis added)

S
 
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shmuel

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Here is a reference about New Testament manuscripts:

http://biblefacts.org/history/oldtext.html

Codex Sinaiticus
Dates from the mid fourth century and originally included both Old and New Testaments plus the Epistle of Barnabas and the Shepherd of Hermas, all in Greek. Sin. was found in a monastery library on the slopes of Mount Sinai in 1859 and brought to St. Petersburg. In 1933 it was sold to the British Museum in London where it currently resides.

Codex Vaticanus
Fourth century Greek codex of the Old and the New Testaments. The codex was brought to the Vatican from Constantinople as a gift to the pope in the fourteenth century. The Old Testament lacks Gen.1-46:28; portions of II Kings 2; and Psalms 105-137. The New Testament is missing Heb. 9:14; I and II Tim.; Titus and Revelation.

It was not available to open scholarship until 1889. The original is still in the Vatican.
Neither Sinaiticus or Vaticanus contain the last twelve verses of Mark (Mark 16:9-20). However, the verses are included in some earlier fragments, and in the writings of Church fathers, even ones cited by scholars as second century. These are the only two Greek manuscripts (Sinaiticus and Vaticanus), out of a total of 620 which contain the Gospel of Mark, that omit the verses.

S
 
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Henaynei

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In the Phillippines:


¨Asia Pacific Messianic Fellowship.PO Box 212, 2600 BaguioCity.

¨BaguioCity Messianic Congregation.PO Box 509, 2600 BaguioCity. Call 63-74-446-2495.

¨ La Trinidad Bible Congregation.PO Box 133, 2601 LaTrinidad, Benguet. Shabbat service 9:30 am. Ph. 63-74-445-5144

¨ Petah Tikvah. Moises Debesfroto, Poblacion, Magsaysay, Davao del Sur 8004.

As Islam is the official religion of Malaysia it may well be that there are few Jewish congregations and scant to none Messianic Jewish congregations :( In all the places I looked I found no mention of Judaism, much less Messianics...


[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The different types of religion in Malaysia reflects the variety of races living there. Islam is the official religion but Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity and other religions are practiced freely. [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Islam is practiced predominantly by the Malays. Most of the Chinese believe in Buddhism and Taoism but others are Christians. Hinduism is mostly practiced by the region's Indian population. Many indigenous people have converted to Christianity but others still practiced animism. [/font]
[/font]
Malaysia's official religion is Islam, but the freedom of religion is guaranteed by the constitution. As in other areas, the cultural diversity plays a part in the religious preference of Malays. The Chinese population in Malaysia is basically Buddhist or Taoist with a few following Confucianism. Indians in Malaysia are usually Hindus (with a few being Sikh).
The vast majority of the Malays (particularly ethnic Malays) are Muslims, with Christianity being practiced by some Chinese, Indians, Eurasians and many of the indigenous people of Sabah and Sarawak
source
Muslim, Buddhist, Daoist, Hindu, Christian, Sikh; note - in addition, Shamanism is practiced in East Malaysia
All of the world's major religions have substantial representation in Malaysia, the main adherents of each largely reflecting the multi-ethnic character of the population. The variety of religions found in Malaysia is a direct reflection of the diversity of races living there. Although Islam is the state religion of Malaysia, freedom of religion is guaranteed. The Malays are almost all Muslims. The Chinese embrace an eclectic brew of Taoism, Buddhism and ancestor worship, though some are Christians. Although Christianity has made no great inroads into Peninsular Malaysia it has had a much greater impact upon East Malaysia, where many indigenous people have converted to Christianity , although others still follow their animist traditions. More


Hope this is some small help....

b'Shalom
Henaynei
[/font]
 
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