Shalom, I'm dani'el

[dani'el]

I am a believer in Torah observant Messianic Judaism for over ten years now. Torah is my base, the 66 book Bible my authority, Yeshua my example and, as God my savior and master. I follow as much as possible a 1st century form of worship. And while I take what is good from both Christianity and contemporary Judaism, I am beholding to the rulings of neither camp, their denominations nor sects. Messianism is its own form of faith, replete with our own sectarian divisions. Just looking for the truth in scripture.

 

[DiscipleOfChrist85]

I respect your position and I say good for you but Im curious to see how messianism is different from other christian and jewish traditions ?

 

[HARK!]

Welcome Dani'el,

I suspect that you might be interested in this forum: https://www.christianforums.com/thr...d-agree-before-posting-in-this-forum.7764449/

If so, don't forget to make a post in that thread, after you have voted. to make that vote count.

Shalom

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Shalom dani'el! Good to meet you and may you blessed!

 

[dqhall]

I am a believer in Torah observant Messianic Judaism for over ten years now. Torah is my base, the 66 book Bible my authority, Yeshua my example and, as God my savior and master. I follow as much as possible a 1st century form of worship. And while I take what is good from both Christianity and contemporary Judaism, I am beholding to the rulings of neither camp, their denominations nor sects. Messianism is its own form of faith, replete with our own sectarian divisions. Just looking for the truth in scripture.

Welcome. I have seen differing opinions of what Messianic Judaism is posted in Christian Forums. When I was in Israel I met several Messianic Jews who met in churches or other buildings instead of synagogues. English speaking Israeli Jews seemed to like Americans as did the English speaking Christian Arabs of Nazareth. Tourism is a source of much revenue for them.

 

[dani'el]

I respect your position and I say good for you but Im curious to see how messianism is different from other christian and jewish traditions ?

Messianic Judaism basically seeks (as much as possible) to recreate the beliefs and worship of the 1st century believers in Yeshua, the Notsarim (Nazarenes). We use the 66 book Bible and believe in Yeshua as ha'moshiach, which separates us from contemporary (Rabbinic) Judaism; and we hold Torah to be still true and wholly applicable today, which separates us from Christianity. From there it gets complicated, a there are many types of MJ. One synagogue I am affiliated with holds services in a contemporary Jewish style, complete with rituals, dress, and liturgies and prayers (in Hebrew and English). The place where I worship now refers to themselves as a qahal (pronounced ka-hal; an assembly; an ecclesia) and has a much more relaxed form of service. Another I used to attend had many rituals and customs of Rabbinical Judaism, but the services were more like a Christian Church. I prefer where I am now. We make no pretenses, just parse out scripture to glean as much truth as possible. Same with history and other things related to our faith.

 

[Cute Peonies]

Welcome dani'el

 

[dani'el]

Shalom dani'el! Good to meet you and may you blessed!

v'atah.

 

[dqhall]

Messianic Judaism basically seeks (as much as possible) to recreate the beliefs and worship of the 1st century believers in Yeshua, the Notsarim (Nazarenes). We use the 66 book Bible and believe in Yeshua as ha'moshiach, which separates us from contemporary (Rabbinic) Judaism; and we hold Torah to be still true and wholly applicable today, which separates us from Christianity. From there it gets complicated, a there are many types of MJ. One synagogue I am affiliated with holds services in a contemporary Jewish style, complete with rituals, dress, and liturgies and prayers (in Hebrew and English). The place where I worship now refers to themselves as a qahal (pronounced ka-hal; an assembly; an ecclesia) and has a much more relaxed form of service. Another I used to attend had many rituals and customs of Rabbinical Judaism, but the services were more like a Christian Church. I prefer where I am now. We make no pretenses, just parse out scripture to glean as much truth as possible. Same with history and other things related to our faith.

I was part of a lecture society of Jews and Christians in Northern Virginia started by Ed Gitow. Once we ate lunch at a rabbi’s home. He told of the shame he suffered having to go to a hospital due to an emergency during Shabbat. The next time he moved, he moved to within a half mile of a hospital in case he might have another emergency, he would be closer to the hospital. He told us he had prayed for a Christian before. In Jerusalem I attended a Jewish church service close to the time Rosh Hashanah. They blew ram’s horn shofars like trumpets. That year Rosh Hoshanah was on Shabbat so the blowing of horns was forbidden as resting on the Sabbath took precedence over working to blow ram’s horns.

 

[Unqualified]

Do you try to obey the law @dani'el ? Welcome to the forum, my friend

 

[dani'el]

I was part of a lecture society of Jews and Christians in Northern Virginia started by Ed Gitow. Once we ate lunch at a rabbi’s home. He told of the shame he suffered having to go to a hospital due to an emergency during Shabbat. The next time he moved, he moved to within a half mile of a hospital in case he might have another emergency, he would be closer to the hospital. He told us he had prayed for a Christian before. In Jerusalem I attended a Jewish church service close to the time Rosh Hashanah. They blew ram’s horn shofars like trumpets. That year Rosh Hoshanah was on Shabbat so the blowing of horns was forbidden as resting on the Sabbath took precedence over working to blow ram’s horns.

I'm a little confused: you say "In Jerusalem I attended a Jewish church service." Were they Jewish Christians, Jewish Meshiachim (Messianics), or a mixed Messianic congregation?

At any rate, the society you were part of sounds interesting. The Rabbi you mention is following a Talmudic/Rabbinical form of Judaism. He is likely bound by the 613 mitzvoth; those "laws" people like to throw out at Messianics. First off, Torah is usually more accurately translated as "instructions." And second, while based on Torah they are found in the Gemara not as a list but as many halachic rulings over many years by various rabbis. As I said earlier, we do not consider ourselves bound by those rulings. I do look at them and try to understand the reasoning, as these were godly men. But I do not always agree, and never blindly follow.

We too typically blow the shofar to begin our service. It is how the ancient Hebrews were called to service, to meetings, or to arms. For us it is a clear signal it is time to shut up, get to our seats, and prepare for worship. Much more effective than a deacon standing up front saying "Can I have your attention; we all need to be seated; it's time to start." ... "Please, can I have your attention ... !" I will admit, though, that being inexperienced at it we sometimes sound more like slaughtering goats than a call to worship. Still, it will get your attention!

 

[dani'el]

Do you try to obey the law @dani'el ? Welcome to the forum, my friend

Thanks; and yes.

I follow the instructions and commands found in Torah and expounded on in scripture. Not the 613 mitzvoth of Rabbinical Judaism.

 

[dqhall]

I'm a little confused: you say "In Jerusalem I attended a Jewish church service." Were they Jewish Christians, Jewish Meshiachim (Messianics), or a mixed Messianic congregation?

At any rate, the society you were part of sounds interesting. The Rabbi you mention is following a Talmudic/Rabbinical form of Judaism. He is likely bound by the 613 mitzvoth; those "laws" people like to throw out at Messianics. First off, Torah is usually more accurately translated as "instructions." And second, while based on Torah they are found in the Gemara not as a list but as many halachic rulings over many years by various rabbis. As I said earlier, we do not consider ourselves bound by those rulings. I do look at them and try to understand the reasoning, as these were godly men. But I do not always agree, and never blindly follow.

We too typically blow the shofar to begin our service. It is how the ancient Hebrews were called to service, to meetings, or to arms. For us it is a clear signal it is time to shut up, get to our seats, and prepare for worship. Much more effective than a deacon standing up front saying "Can I have your attention; we all need to be seated; it's time to start." ... "Please, can I have your attention ... !" I will admit, though, that being inexperienced at it we sometimes sound more like slaughtering goats than a call to worship. Still, it will get your attention!

They met at Christ Church (Anglican) near the Jaffa Gate of the Old City and were Israelis. I can not tell you what type of Jewish Christian they were. Not sure of the definition of Messianic. An interpreter was not present at this church. The Turks gave land to the British for a church in Jerusalem after the British helped them against the Russians during the Crimean War.

At a different church in Israel I had an earphone and a lady was translating the Hebrew service into English. The pastor talked about the Passover; they ate it with haste. He spoke about the importance of moving very quickly, if you ever have to flee persecution.

I remember the Torah as the first five books of the Bible. It is also called the Pentateuch. Paul liked the laws that were against sexual immorality.

A Jewish friend in Virginia taught there are 29 types of work you may not do on Shabbat. I was pulled over for driving my rental car in a Jewish neighborhood during Shabbat. I was carrying a 35 mm camera during the Sabbath in Tiberias and a man was screaming at me. The last time I was in Israel I stayed in my hotel room for Shabbat. There was WiFi that did not exist during my first journeys to Israel.

 

[dani'el]

They met at Christ Church (Anglican) near the Jaffa Gate of the Old City and were Israelis. I can not tell you what type of Jewish Christian they were. Not sure of the definition of Messianic. An interpreter was not present at this church. The Turks gave land to the British for a church in Jerusalem after the British helped them against the Russians during the Crimean War.

At a different church in Israel I had an earphone and a lady was translating the Hebrew service into English. The pastor talked about the Passover; they ate it with haste. He spoke about the importance of moving very quickly, if you ever have to flee persecution.

I remember the Torah as the first five books of the Bible. It is also called the Pentateuch. Paul liked the laws that were against sexual immorality.

A Jewish friend in Virginia taught there are 29 types of work you may not do on Shabbat. I was pulled over for driving my rental car in a Jewish neighborhood during Shabbat. I was carrying a 35 mm camera during the Sabbath in Tiberias and a man was screaming at me. The last time I was in Israel I stayed in my hotel room for Shabbat. There was WiFi that did not exist during my first journeys to Israel.

The definition of "Messianic" depends on who you are talking to. The term has been hijacked and assimilated by many groups. Many Christian churches would say any Jew who converts to Christianity, even if Dispensational is Messianic. On the other hand there are those who say a Messianic is anyone who believes in Yeshua and follows Torah. At the extreme are those who say it is only Jews who believe in Yeshua but who want to preserve their Jewish identity and so still live as Jews, keeping the 613 mitzvoth.

Interpretations of how strictly to enforce the mitzvoth, especially on Gentiles vary.

 

[CallofChrist]

Welcome to the forums @dani'el

 

[HIM]

Just looking for the truth in scripture.

Me too! Welcome to the forum.

 

[dani'el]

Welcome to the forums @dani'el

Yes, I have read these many times, and had them quoted as proofs we are "under grace, not the law" many more times. To be under the law is to be under its curse, and that happens with unreported sin. We do not teach salvation by works, rather that by grace through faith/trust alone. And you cannot quote scripture about obedience and teach against Torah. Reread your texts with those points in mind.

 

[Joined2krist]

Shalom!

 

[dani'el]

Shalom alechem!

 

[sunshineforJesus]

Hi and welcome here.