Seventh-day Adventist Church is Christian - not a cult

rturner76 · Sep 5, 2024

BobRyan said:
yep - that would be a huge problem.

It is also a trend in many Charismatic and Televangelist circles IMO. Things like "the money doctrine" and "holy laughter" to me are more setting trends than teaching sound scriptural interpretation.

BobRyan said:
yep. That is why we have exec council meetings on years outside of the every-5-year quinquinium meeting of representative world wide.

That's on reason why even though I don't see eye to eye on every teaching of your church, I am confident that the SDA Church is favored. Especially considering the charity and volunteer programs. To me, it doesn't mean as much to determine things like "was Mary really sinless." as it is for Christians to house the homeless, feed the hungry, and clothe the naked." That is the mission of the Church and "make disciples of the nation. If a Church is focused on that, that are focused on God's work period.

BobRyan · Sep 5, 2024

KevinT said:
I thought you were going to bring up the times when the international date line has been moved, and suddenly an island nation had its days changed. So what used to be Saturday was now called Sunday. So the Adventist people had to decide whether to keep worshiping on the old 7th day (but now 1st day), or to change to the new Saturday.

KT

My brother used to live in the Marshall Islands - island of kwajalein - so when they made that change it was a big deal for him -- but everyone else in western/eastern hemisphere on planet Earth was pretty much ok.

germo155 · Sep 11, 2024

Diamond72 said:
I am not sure who Ellen is but I think this forum is for those that agree with their beliefs. A place for Seventh-day Adventist who accept the 28 Fundamental Beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church

Is its abou

JesusFollowerForever said:
Yes the sabbath is most important it is a sign between God and the believers who do His will. People just do not get it, the Lord did not say pick a day and rest, he said very specifically the last day of the week, Saturday as it corresponds to God's rest after the creation, I hope people will get it one day. Anyways none in paradise will have a choice and will abide by the commandments witch are eternal, because they love God and Obey his voice.

Blessings

Blessings

And that means that if I lets say go to Sunday and Saturday to church, is that wrong then I do that also Sunday? Does God really look about the day, so that means u never sing or worship or pray on Sunday? Coz that is from evil?

SabbathBlessings · Sep 11, 2024

germo155 said:
If one is keeping Sunday over obeying God's commandments, they have someone else as their authority. We can't serve two masters.
What, we should worship God daily! not only Saturday.

Who said anything about only worshipping God on Saturdays. We should worship God 24/7 365 He should be the center of our life, and if so, we should obey Him through faith and love and that would include keeping the 4th commandments along with everything that proceeds out of the mouth of God we are told to live by Mat 4:4

germo155 said:
, is that about the day?

Accord to God yes

Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.

germo155 said:
U guys seem to worship lot more sabbath then Jesus.

Did Jesus break God's commandments? Not once. He was accused of it, but He faithfully kept the commandments John 15:10 1 Peter 2:21-22 including the Sabbath Luke 4:16 and told us not to break the least of these commandments. Mat 5:19-30. He is also our example to follow 1 John 2:6

germo155 said:
Jesus healed sick in sabbath btw.

Yes and not a sin to do so

germo155 said:
What do you then do in sabbath, u go to church?

Thats part of it, just like the custom of Jesus and the apostles did every Sabbath Luke 4:18 Acts 18:4

germo155 said:
And what difference it makes if someone goes to church Friday, or Monday? Praising, worshipping everyday is false?

There is nothing wrong with going to church on any day of the week, but that still doesn't delete our moral obligation to obey God and keep His commandments. When we keep our traditions in lieu of obeying the commandments of God as Jesus quoted directly from the Ten Commandments that's when Jesus says things go terribly wrong- worshipping Him in vain, our hearts our far from Him, ending up in a ditch. It's a really big warning, but sadly many never believe His teaching Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13

germo155 said:
U guys still live under Old Testament laws?

The New Covenant is established on better promises, not "better" laws Heb 8:6. God wrote the Ten Commandments with His own finger Exo 32:16 Exo 31:18 and they are perfect Psa 19:7 you can't make something perfect more perfect. But now instead of us doing, the New Covenant has God doing, He is writing His law in our hearts and minds and as long as we don't change our mind-i.e. rebel Rom 8:7-8 but keep through love and faith Rom 3:31 Exo 20:6 John 14:15 1 John 5:3 it will lead us on the narrow path back to reconciliation Rev 22:14. Its why its still a sin to break the least of these commandments even in the NT Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 James 2:10-12

SabbathBlessings · Sep 11, 2024

germo155 said:
Is its abou

And that means that if I lets say go to Sunday and Saturday to church, is that wrong then I do that also Sunday? Does God really look about the day, so that means u never sing or worship or pray on Sunday? Coz that is from evil?

Look at it this way- did God care about a tree? God gave Adam and Eve every tree to eat but one and when they choose to listen to the other spirit over obeying God it changed everything.

Does God care about a day? Enough so to bless, sanctify and make it holy and for Him to come down from heaven and write His eternal law with His own finger, so yes God cares about the holy day of the Lord thy GodIn scripture we are told whoever we obey is who we serve. Rom 6:16 So keeping the Sabbath shows our allegiance to God Eze 20:20, the only God who has the power to create heaven and earth Exo 20:11, the only God who has the power to sanctify Eze 20:12 We are told someone would change God's times and laws Dan 7:25 which is what happened with Sunday as predicted. Its best we serve the one True God and He gave the Sabbath as a sign if keeping He is our God Eze 20:20

germo155 · Sep 11, 2024

Diamond72 said:
I am not sure who Ellen is but I think this forum is for those that agree with their beliefs. A place for Seventh-day Adventist who accept the 28 Fundamental Beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church

Is its a

SabbathBlessings said:
Look at it this way- does God care about a tree? God gave Adam and Eve every tree to eat but one and when they choose to listen to the other spirit over obeying God it changed everything.

Does God care about a day? Enough so to come down from heaven and write His eternal law with His own finger, so yes God cares about a day. In scripture we are told whoever we obey is who we serve. Rom 6:16 So keeping the Sabbath shows our allegiance to God Eze 20:20, the only God who has the power to create heaven and earth Exo 20:11, the only God who has the power to sanctify Eze 20:12 We are told someone would change God's times and laws Dan 7:25 which is what happened with Sunday as predicted. Its best we serve the one True God and He gave the Sabbath as a sign if keeping He is our God, we are His people Eze 20:20

so u break other commandments time to time, but never sabbath? Have u ever pray on Sundays?

SabbathBlessings · Sep 11, 2024

germo155 said:
Is its a

so u break other commandments time to time, but never sabbath? Have u ever pray on Sundays?

I pray everyday, not sure what that has to do with being disobedient to God's commandments.

I am going to assume you are asking if I ever break the commandments from time to time and not accusing.

Yes, I have sinned and broke God's law and its a terrible feeling, sin should be painful. Everything Jesus suffered for us because of our sins and to continue down that path I don't understand why any Christian would want to. Rom 6:1-2 We are not saved in our sins, we are saved from sin Mat 1:21. We are told we must confess and forsake our sins Pro 28:13 which is why when Jesus healed He said go and sin no more. Living in perpetual sin is not how someone who loves Jesus should live. John 14:15 But Jesus is so faithful and if we slip and fall, we have an Advocate in Jesus Christ who is now our High Priest and we can take our sins to Him when we are truly sorry and repent, which means a change of heart and direction. He is so faithful to cleanse us of all sin and unrighteousness, but through Jesus Christ and our love and faith in Him we can overcome sin and keep His commandments. John 14:15-18 Phil 4:13 If we are not trying to keep God's law and rebelling against it, its really not a good sign Rom 8:7-8 Heb 3:7-8 but we can always pray to God for more love and faith in Him and ask for His help in obeying Him. He hears our prayers if its according to His will 1 John 5:14

germo155 · Sep 11, 2024

SabbathBlessings said:
I pray everyday, not sure what that has to do with being disobedient to God's commandments.

I am going to assume you are asking if I ever break the commandments from time to time and not accusing.

Yes, I have sinned and broke God's law and its a terrible feeling, sin should be painful. Everything Jesus suffered for us because of our sins and to continue down that path I don't understand why any Christian would want to. Rom 6:1-2 We are not saved in our sins, we are saved from sin Mat 1:21. We are told we must confess and forsake our sins Pro 28:13 which is why when Jesus healed He said go and sin no more. Living in perpetual sin is not how someone who loves Jesus should live. John 14:15 But Jesus is so faithful and if we slip and fall, we have an Advocate in Jesus Christ who is now our High Priest and we can take our sins to Him when we are truly sorry and repent, which means a change of heart and direction. He is so faithful to cleanse us of all sin and unrighteousness, but through Jesus Christ and our love and faith in Him we can overcome sin and keep His commandments. John 14:15-18 Phil 4:13 If we are not trying to keep God's law and rebelling against it, its really not a good sign Rom 8:7-8 Heb 3:7-8 but we can always pray to God for more love and faith in Him and ask for His help in obeying Him. He hears our prayers if its according to His will 1 John 5:14

Relationship matters, obeying comes after we build relationship and Grace transforms us, our try can be hard to do. Spending time with him def transforms us amen!

SabbathBlessings · Sep 11, 2024

germo155 said:
Relationship matters, obeying comes after we build relationship and Grace transforms us, our try can be hard to do. Spending time with him def transforms us amen!

Yes, it does! Keep studying His Word for yourself and praying to God to lead us in all Truth.

God bless!

Diamond72 · Sep 11, 2024

germo155 said:
Have u ever pray on Sundays?

I never stop praying.

germo155 · Sep 12, 2024

Diamond72 said:
I never stop praying.

So then, what difference it makes Sunday vs Saturday. I can also think sabbath is Saturday, but if u dont go to church isn't that anymore sabbath? Or if I dont worship at Saturday it's not sabbath? Has it more to do with Faith, that when its Saturday, its sabbath, rather then going to church this or that day? Your heart position, a belief. So if u pray Sunday, and also worship in Sunday, prayer can be also turn to worship as you know

JesusFollowerForever · Sep 12, 2024

germo155 said:
Is its abou

And that means that if I lets say go to Sunday and Saturday to church, is that wrong then I do that also Sunday? Does God really look about the day, so that means u never sing or worship or pray on Sunday? Coz that is from evil?

You do not break the commandment of GOD if you rest Saturday and also worship Sunday, praying or worshipping God is never evil on the contrary. what is important and is a test of our faithfulness and obedience to GOD's voice is that we follow the commandments. they are not burdensome as many think.

Blessings.

Diamond72 · Sep 12, 2024

germo155 said:
So then, what difference it makes Sunday vs Saturday.

What I do not understand is why people do things on the Sabbath that would cause others to have to work.

KevinT · Sep 12, 2024

Diamond72 said:
What I do not understand is why people do things on the Sabbath that would cause others to have to work.

This is a whole rabbit whole that one can go down. My understanding is that some traditional Jews will hire gentiles to come into their houses and turn their lights on, or their stove etc. That has always seemed strange to me. But on the other hand, if I needed fuel for my car, I would not consider that I was making the gas station attendant do work for me if I stopped for a self-serve fill-up. This almost never comes up because I try to plan ahead.

In general, I try not to do things that would make other people work for me on the Sabbath. But if they have already chosen to work, and they would not change their working if I was absent, that I am OK with using their services. For example, if I had to travel on the Sabbath, I personally don't mind pulling through a fast-food drive-through because they are going to be there regardless. But this is just me. Others likely disagree with that, and I was raised to not buy and sell on the Sabbath.

@Diamond72, what example were you thinking of in your post?

Not directly related to the above, but I'd like to tell a quick side-story. When I was in college in Tennessee, we took a sociology trip to New York City. We visited Little Italy, Chinatown etc, to learn about the different cultures. And we also visited a Jewish temple. Feeling that we had at least a little in common with them, we mentioned that we also kept the Sabbath as a day of rest. "Ah, that is interesting," replied the priest (or other official). "Tell me, if you go camping, will you light a fire to cook your food?" "Yes, we replied." "Well, then you aren't really keeping the Sabbath." I have thought about this incident many times, and I think it speaks to the heart of what bothers other Protestants about our Sabbath keeping. Exactly WHAT are you doing? Are you trying to keep all the Mosaic regulations put up about the Sabbath? I have been brought up in an environment where we keep Sabbath as a way of honoring God without all the campfire restrictions. But on what grounds do I base that? As an adult, I rely on Jesus stating that "the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."

KT

Diamond72 · Sep 13, 2024

KevinT said:
I was raised to not buy and sell on the Sabbath.

There use to be laws about that. Esp the sunday sale of alcohol. When I worked in a hardware store we were open sunday and holidays and I hated it. Also we did not do that much business. When I quit that job I was amazed that they have festivals and stuff on the weekends that I knew nothing about.

A gas station is a convivence store and there is nothing in there that is not harmful to people. Esp to sell them cigarettes' and alcohol. I personally would not do that. They say if we don't someone else well. Then let them. Jesus said let the dead bury the dead. If we are rescued, saved, healed and delivered our life should be a reflection of that.

KevinT · Sep 14, 2024

Diamond72 said:
A gas station is a convivence store and there is nothing in there that is not harmful to people.

I think my local convenience store sells plain water, but I think I know what you mean

KT

Diamond72 · Sep 14, 2024

KevinT said:
I think my local convenience store sells plain water, but I think I know what you mean

How safe bottled water is a study all onto itself. In Hong Kong they boil the water because they do not feel it is safe even though the city says it is safe to drink the water there. In general bottled water is filtered and considered to be safe to drink.

Carl Emerson · Sep 21, 2024

BobRyan said:
The internet has some web sites discussing this topic so - I would like to explain why independent reviewers such as Walter Martin in his book "Kingdom of the Cults" argued as a non-SDA scholar - that the Adventist church is NOT a cult.

1. He admits in his book that doctrinal differences do exist between Christian denominations of every kind - but those doctrinal differences do not suffice to call them a cult.

2. Most often when attacks are made against Adventists they settle for finding that one denomination differs with another on some point instead of making a case that the difference amounts to forfeiting the Christian faith entirely.

3. Martin condemns the idea of taking some obscure unpublished statement, or a one-off statement from this or that person, or x-church-member as the main foundation of substance for the claim that a given group is not Christian, or does indeed hold to some odd belief, or is a cult. Since it is true that dissenters.. and one-off accusers are common in all denominations.

4. Martin argues that one must take the published denominational doctrinal statements - endorsed as such - for the group's agreed upon statement. He also accepts a formal request and response to specific questions - sent to the denomination itself - as a reasonable claim for what the denomination actually teaches/believes.

This is helpful since it avoids the empty round-and-round that can be had from straw-man arguments.

================================

Adventists do teach that;

1. IN the OT "The Angel of the Lord" is very often (in fact always) a Christophany -- it is YHWH - God Himself. Adventists make this same claim about Michael the Archangel - that it is He who is also God the Son, who is called THE Angel of the Lord.

So then one may differ with Adventists and make their own claim that Michael is not "The Angel of the Lord" etc - but that would be "another Michael" and not the one that Adventist speak of since Adventist most certainly to not argue that God the son is a created being , it not YHWH etc.

We also note that in Gen 18 - God the Son and two angels appear to Abraham as "three men walking". But that does not make them humans.

2. Adventists teach the pre-advent Investigative judgment found in Dan 7 where -- the entire time that judgment goes on in God's throne room courtoom in heaven -- saints are being persecuted. They teach that as Dan 7 says - the judgment does not start until after the fall of the fourth beast - pagan Roman empire.

So then one may view the details on Dan 7 differently but that is merely a difference between groups.

3. Adventists teach the 1 Cor 12 and Eph 4 idea of spiritual gifts continuing - until the point that Eph 4 identifies.

4. Adventists teach that prophets speak with prophetic authority and that includes people like Agabus in the book of Acts who writes no scripture at all - but still gets messages for the church - given to him by God.

5. Adventists teach that the Ten Commandments were never down-sized to nine and that the Sabbath commandment has never been deleted or edited by God to point to something other than the 7th day of creation week being remembered. We also teach the Is 66:23 doctrine that for all eternity after the cross in the New Heaven and New Earth - that "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship". (Since the Sabbath was MADE for mankind Mark 2:27 when it was made, Gen 2:3-4)

============= That is a small sample - I will add more for those who think it should be included

My point is that "difference are fine" and they do exist - but all the examples above are things that Dr Walter Martin knew already about the Adventist church and still he affirmed that they do not constitute an example of a cult.

=======================

This thread is not intended to address the impossibly large scope of "all things that I agree or differ with regarding the teachings of the Seventh-day Adventist denomination".

IT is also not about "so-and-so person in the 1800's believed this in an unpublished letter".

I am just trying to keep this to the subject of difference that do not constitute a cult - vs ones that do.

For me to call SDA a cult is inappropriate but I do feel that word Sect is a fitting description.

My reasoning for this is that I have seen the gospel conveyed to great effect by members and this is what matters most. I am not SDA, I hope you don't mind my comment.

SabbathBlessings · Sep 21, 2024

Carl Emerson said:
For me to call SDA a cult is inappropriate but I do feel that word Sect is a fitting description.

My reasoning for this is that I have seen the gospel conveyed to great effect by members and this is what matters most. I am not SDA, I hope you don't mind my comment.

Not a sect according to the definition, but will agree we differ in beliefs than the mainstream Christians and okay with that. Jesus never taught to follow the majority.

There is only one gospel in scripture- the good news in Salvation in Jesus Christ and why Jesus taught from the beginning- repent for the Kingdom is at hand because He came to save us from our sins Mat 1:21, not save us in them.

Carl Emerson · Sep 21, 2024

SabbathBlessings said:
Not a sect according to the definition, but will agree we differ in beliefs than the mainstream Christians and okay with that. Jesus never taught to follow the majority.

There is only one gospel in scripture- the good news in Salvation in Jesus Christ and why Jesus taught from the beginning- repent for the Kingdom is at hand because He is coming to save us from our sins Mat 1:21, not save us in them.

My respect for SDA does not come from doctrine but rather how Jesus finds among you faithful servants.

Example - I was at University, and a Muslim, who knew I was a believer, tapped me on the shoulder and asked if we could have coffee together. He explained that he wanted to know all about the resurrection of Jesus! So I spent quite some time explaining the core truths of the faith.

It was not until he traveled down country and stayed with an SDA family who knelt with him on the kitchen floor crying out for his soul that he was born again.

Seventh-day Adventist Church is Christian - not a cult

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