Setting boundaries in marriage

hisbloodformysins · Mar 9, 2008

CuriousInIL said:
If that is what is being done then I am in agreement that is appropriate. But, some of the earlier posts said that neither right and wrong nor the other spouses feelings (best interests might be a better term) was taking into account--only the feelings of the boundary setting spouse, and that IMO is wrong wrong wrong.

I do not think it is so obvious especially because only have one side of the story.

NO offense curious... but I have doubts that you've read all my posts....

You are not going to ever get the other persons side unless they are here posting their side as well.

I'm guessing you have some preconceived idea??

I actually started a thread all about this personal issue in the married couples only section titled "A personal issue" maybe you already read it. I noticed that the people who became defensive to my post or sided with my husband were men, and they were focused on the "denying my husband sex" portion of my complaint, and not hearing the whole complaint.

I'm not saying that that is where you are coming from, you've already made your point clear, that you feel like it's something that needs to be discussed. I've already described more then once my attempts to discuss this issue and how my husband blatantly ignore my request for more sensitivity. I really don't have anything more I can say about it. You either agree or you don't, either way it's ok.. everyone thinks differently.

Thanks for posting.

HB

Yitzchak · Mar 9, 2008

I didn't say that. What I said was that right and wrong come into the equation, your feelings come into the equation, and his feelings come into the equation. Then those are balanced, discussed and hopefully agreement is reached.

My "problem" with a number of the posts on this thread, including many of yours, is that what I took from them is that each spouse can just set any "boundary" they want, without any regard to the other spouse's feelings and without regard to right and wrong. I do not believe that is the way that a married couple should act. As I said above, I think it is a balance between three things.

If you want my opinion, let me know either by a return post or PM. But, as I have been trying to confine myself to the issues raised by the broader topic of boundary setting in general, and not to the specific conduct in your particular case, I will end this post here.

My position on the matter is that there are two parts to the issue...The first part is maintaining the integrity of choice or free will, whatever you wish to call it.

The second seperate issue is what is the right way to use free will and when is it proper to submitt my will to someone else?

But to hand someone a blank check of control over my life is what living without boundaries is about. Even if that person is your spouse , that is not biblical or even good common sense....

But to make it super duper clear here....in order for the integrity of free will and choice to exist... The final decision remains with the individual. It is their choice and theirs alone to make..

That may make some people uncomfortable that their husband or wife can say no for no other reason than just because that is the choice they are making... But that is ultimately what happens anyway....Why do you suppose there are so many divorces ? Because people ultimately make their own choices.....

mkgal1 · Mar 9, 2008

hisbloodformysins said:
Yes, i'm interested in hearing abouy them.... I think we are both billy goats

Oh, I posted them in post #97.

mkgal1 · Mar 9, 2008

S

Yitzchak said:
My position on the matter is that there are two parts to the issue...The first part is maintaining the integrity of choice or free will, whatever you wish to call it.

The second seperate issue is what is the right way to use free will and when is it proper to submitt my will to someone else?

But to hand someone a blank check of control over my life is what living without boundaries is about. Even if that person is your spouse , that is not biblical or even good common sense....

But to make it super duper clear here....in order for the integrity of free will and choice to exist... The final decision remains with the individual. It is their choice and theirs alone to make..

That may make some people uncomfortable that their husband or wife can say no for no other reason than just because that is the choice they are making... But that is ultimately what happens anyway....Why do you suppose there are so many divorces ? Because people ultimately make their own choices.....

Such a clear explanation, as always.

Free will is so important in a relationship. It allows for honesty, security to be one's self, and true intimacy.

When one spouse feels they don't have the freedom to say "no"...a wedge of dishonesty begins & resentment creeps in.

hisbloodformysins · Mar 9, 2008

That's the thing about it... everyone does have free will.... even the ones that don't feel like they do.

I do get a little annoyed with personalities that don't say no, just please everyone else... but hold resentment inside and act like a martyr.... they like to blame other people for how THEY feel.... "this person is treating me this way whine whine whine"

But yet they do nothing about it.

Truth is NO ONE can control you. If you let someone control you then you are just as guilty if not more guilty for the what is happening to you. Just taking a passive stance while someone is being the more aggressive one... and hoping someday they'll quit... while you just sit there and don't stand up for yourself.....

I wonder if some of these personalities get a need meet feeling like a victim. It is so much easier to place blame on someone else, play the poor me role, gain everyone's sympathy.... and not take responsibility for what you allow from other people.

HB

mkgal1 · Mar 9, 2008

I wonder about that too. I sometimes think people that play the victim may esteem themselves for their sacrifices. Equating their sacrifices with *goodness*.

Truth is, nothing kills a marriage (or any relationship) more than resentment. That is our enemy..that is what we have to fight to keep out of our marriages.

I thought of another example to use relating to this and Curious's question of setting boundaries using right/wrong. As you mentioned earlier, HB, some situations just aren't a matter of right or wrong, but MORE a matter of individual needs. For example: let's say a husband has a need to arrive at church promptly. He likes to be in his seat when everything begins. To him, that says a lot about his character, and he has a deep need to be respected. His wife, on the other hand, has a greater need to feel confident when she walks into church. It's not out of vanity, but she doesn't want to be distracted thinking that something may be out of place. She wants to respect her husband and be on time, but every week she fails, and causes them to arrive as church is beginning. What should the husband do? Yelling at her all the way to church, telling her how he hates being late is only going to ruin the teaching for BOTH of them. It will probably sour the entire day...Satan wins in that scenario. If the husband says nothing, he is suffering the consequences of his wife's behavior...that is going to cause feelings of resentment to rise in him. Also, not a good answer. This can't be defined by deciding who is right/ who is wrong. Some people will choose *sides*, but that isn't going to solve the problem either. It is just that the spouses have differing priorities. That happens. I think the best way to set a boundary in this case, and a way to put the choice into the wife's hands, would be for the husband to tell his wife that he has the need to be in his seat when church begins. He can explain to her what that means to him. He then should explain to her that he is going to leave at a certain time...if she is ready then, they will go together. If she isn't....he will save her a seat, and she can meet him there. Now, it will be up to his wife to decide what is more important to her, arriving with her husband or taking her time in getting ready. Now the husband is free from the stress her choices were putting on him.

I realize some may see this as manipulation. It isn't...this is being done in love. There is no expectation on the husband's part as far as what decision his wife makes. He should be okay with either decision she makes. Satan has no foothold in this situation.

hisbloodformysins · Mar 10, 2008

mkgal1 said:
I wonder about that too. I sometimes think people that play the victim may esteem themselves for their sacrifices. Equating their sacrifices with *goodness*.

Truth is, nothing kills a marriage (or any relationship) more than resentment. That is our enemy..that is what we have to fight to keep out of our marriages.

I thought of another example to use relating to this and Curious's question of setting boundaries using right/wrong. As you mentioned earlier, HB, some situations just aren't a matter of right or wrong, but MORE a matter of individual needs. For example: let's say a husband has a need to arrive at church promptly. He likes to be in his seat when everything begins. To him, that says a lot about his character, and he has a deep need to be respected. His wife, on the other hand, has a greater need to feel confident when she walks into church. It's not out of vanity, but she doesn't want to be distracted thinking that something may be out of place. She wants to respect her husband and be on time, but every week she fails, and causes them to arrive as church is beginning. What should the husband do? Yelling at her all the way to church, telling her how he hates being late is only going to ruin the teaching for BOTH of them. It will probably sour the entire day...Satan wins in that scenario. If the husband says nothing, he is suffering the consequences of his wife's behavior...that is going to cause feelings of resentment to rise in him. Also, not a good answer. This can't be defined by deciding who is right/ who is wrong. Some people will choose *sides*, but that isn't going to solve the problem either. It is just that the spouses have differing priorities. That happens. I think the best way to set a boundary in this case, and a way to put the choice into the wife's hands, would be for the husband to tell his wife that he has the need to be in his seat when church begins. He can explain to her what that means to him. He then should explain to her that he is going to leave at a certain time...if she is ready then, they will go together. If she isn't....he will save her a seat, and she can meet him there. Now, it will be up to his wife to decide what is more important to her, arriving with her husband or taking her time in getting ready. Now the husband is free from the stress her choices were putting on him.

I realize some may see this as manipulation. It isn't...this is being done in love. There is no expectation on the husband's part as far as what decision his wife makes. He should be okay with either decision she makes. Satan has no foothold in this situation.

That is a good way of explaining it. Thanks

HB

CuriousInIL · Mar 10, 2008

hisbloodformysins said:
NO offense curious... but I have doubts that you've read all my posts....

I have read all your posts in this thread and some posts of yours in other threads. But, oh my goodness no, I have not read all of your posts overall and if I said something like that, it was intended to be entirely limited to your posts in this thread. No offense, but I have a life. Why would I undertake to read your over 2000 posts?

hisbloodformysins said:
You are not going to ever get the other persons side unless they are here posting their side as well.

I agree, which is why I most often try to discuss the generalities of the topics rather than the specific facts at issue in the OP.

hisbloodformysins said:
I'm guessing you have some preconceived idea??

No, none at all in this area at least.

hisbloodformysins said:
I actually started a thread all about this personal issue in the married couples only section titled "A personal issue" maybe you already read it. I noticed that the people who became defensive to my post or sided with my husband were men, and they were focused on the "denying my husband sex" portion of my complaint, and not hearing the whole complaint.

I'm not saying that that is where you are coming from, you've already made your point clear, that you feel like it's something that needs to be discussed. I've already described more then once my attempts to discuss this issue and how my husband blatantly ignore my request for more sensitivity. I really don't have anything more I can say about it. You either agree or you don't, either way it's ok.. everyone thinks differently.

Thanks for posting.

HB

Well, I am not being defensive--and I don’t think you are even saying that I am, although I am confused by these statements and whether you are trying to apply them to me—for the simple reason that I have not engaged in any behavior and so have nothing to defend. All I have shared is my opinion and whether it is 100% correct—which it of course is —or just 99.99% correct, I would not and could not be defensive because it is still just opinion and not behavior and conduct.

Yitzchak said:
My position on the matter is that there are two parts to the issue...The first part is maintaining the integrity of choice or free will, whatever you wish to call it.

Yitzchak said:
The second seperate issue is what is the right way to use free will and when is it proper to submitt my will to someone else?

But to hand someone a blank check of control over my life is what living without boundaries is about. Even if that person is your spouse , that is not biblical or even good common sense....

But to make it super duper clear here....in order for the integrity of free will and choice to exist... The final decision remains with the individual. It is their choice and theirs alone to make..

That may make some people uncomfortable that their husband or wife can say no for no other reason than just because that is the choice they are making... But that is ultimately what happens anyway....Why do you suppose there are so many divorces ? Because people ultimately make their own choices.....

I have absolutely no idea what you are saying here if this is intended to be responsive to anything that I or others on here have said. In addition, can you please clarify especially this:

Yitzchak said:
But to hand someone a blank check of control over my life is what living without boundaries is about. Even if that person is your spouse , that is not biblical or even good common sense....

Are you saying that boundaries as being discussed in this thread have direct biblical support? If so, what is it?

Rembrandtfan · Mar 10, 2008

CuriousInIL said:
Are you saying that boundaries as being discussed in this thread have direct biblical support? If so, what is it?[/font]

The best way to find that out is to read the Boundaries book, then you can come to your own conclusion whether or not it's biblical. Check it out of the library if you don't want to buy it. It explains the meaning of boundaries, and quotes scripture for support. Also, if you google "Cloud and Townsend Ministries" you can find their website and get some info there, too.

CuriousInIL · Mar 10, 2008

Rembrandtfan said:
The best way to find that out is to read the Boundaries book, then you can come to your own conclusion whether or not it's biblical. Check it out of the library if you don't want to buy it. It explains the meaning of boundaries, and quotes scripture for support. Also, if you google "Cloud and Townsend Ministries" you can find their website and get some info there, too.

Not that interested. My question was really just an offhand comment to the earlier comment by Yitzchak that living without boundaries--which I took to be boundaries as they were discussed in this thread--was not biblical. That is a statement that I find very hard to believe; but I don't care enough about it to read a book that seems to have little if any relevance to my beliefs and thoughts.

Yitzchak · Mar 10, 2008

Are you saying that boundaries as being discussed in this thread have direct biblical support? If so, what is it?

Boundaries is just a modern way of saying free will.... There is so much written on that subject that it is worthy of several threads...

However , much of the free will issue discussion centers around God giving us free will when it comes to our relationship with God. Boundaries deals with our free will with respect to other people... I don't know how to make that any more clear..... I need to go offline right now but will try to post a little more later on it..... But yes it has direct biblical support ...a whole bunch of it....

mkgal1 · Mar 10, 2008

CuriousInIL said:
Are you saying that boundaries as being discussed in this thread have direct biblical support? If so, what is it?

There has already been several verses cited in this thread, as well as Scriptural references. The best biblical support is looking at how Christ lived His life here on this earth. He used boundaries to allow Him to stay true to God's plan and to keep others from controlling His time. You see that more in His last year of His life.

Exactly what problem do you have with boundaries? If you disagree with the idea of setting boundaries...how would you resolve the conflicts that have been mentioned in this thread? Just to not confuse things, let's only use one example. Let's use the husband/wife problem with punctuality. If you were the husband, how would you resovle this? Let's say you have already sat down and calmly explained to your wife how you have a need to be in your seat before church begins. She listened to you and even understands your need...but, she still can't seem to make it out the door on time. You can feel the resentment building every Sunday morning...now, what do YOU do?

mkgal1 · Mar 10, 2008

CuriousInIL said:
Not that interested. My question was really just an offhand comment to the earlier comment by Yitzchak that living without boundaries--which I took to be boundaries as they were discussed in this thread--was not biblical. That is a statement that I find very hard to believe; but I don't care enough about it to read a book that seems to have little if any relevance to my beliefs and thoughts.

So then, are you saying you aren't really interested in understanding Boundaries...just really wishing to *challenge* what Yitzchak has said?

In previous posts, Yitzchak has really given enough explanation as to why living without boundaries is not biblical. I would suggest that if you truly want the answer to that...take your time and read through the previous posts. Yitzchak has done an excellent job in his explanations.

mkgal1 · Mar 10, 2008

mkgal1 said:
There has already been several verses cited in this thread, as well as Scriptural references. The best biblical support is looking at how Christ lived His life here on this earth. He used boundaries to allow Him to stay true to God's plan and to keep others from controlling His time. You see that more in His last year of His life.

Exactly what problem do you have with boundaries? If you disagree with the idea of setting boundaries...how would you resolve the conflicts that have been mentioned in this thread? Just to not confuse things, let's only use one example. Let's use the husband/wife problem with punctuality. If you were the husband, how would you resovle this? Let's say you have already sat down and calmly explained to your wife how you have a need to be in your seat before church begins. She listened to you and even understands your need...but, she still can't seem to make it out the door on time. You can feel the resentment building every Sunday morning...now, what do YOU do?

Curious....I would still love to hear your resolution for this conflict.....

hisbloodformysins · Mar 11, 2008

CuriousInIL said:
I have read all your posts in this thread and some posts of yours in other threads. But, oh my goodness no, I have not read all of your posts overall and if I said something like that, it was intended to be entirely limited to your posts in this thread. No offense, but I have a life. Why would I undertake to read your over 2000 posts?

LOL

No, I was referring to my posts in this thread

hisbloodformysins · Mar 11, 2008

CuriousInIL said:
Not that interested. My question was really just an offhand comment to the earlier comment by Yitzchak that living without boundaries--which I took to be boundaries as they were discussed in this thread--was not biblical. That is a statement that I find very hard to believe; but I don't care enough about it to read a book that seems to have little if any relevance to my beliefs and thoughts.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion I guess... i'm glad you post curious, makes it interesting.

hisbloodformysins · Mar 11, 2008

mkgal1 said:
Curious....I would still love to hear your resolution for this conflict.....

Yes curious, i am interested to... seriously, do tell

hisbloodformysins · Mar 11, 2008

mkgal1 said:
So then, are you saying you aren't really interested in understanding Boundaries...just really wishing to *challenge* what Yitzchak has said?

In previous posts, Yitzchak has really given enough explanation as to why living without boundaries is not biblical. I would suggest that if you truly want the answer to that...take your time and read through the previous posts. Yitzchak has done an excellent job in his explanations.

I think some people really do have a hard time not seeing boundaries as selfishness.... this includes people who try to control you then rebuke you because you resisted their control over you... pointing the finger at you as if something is wrong with you.

I've been praying that God will help me have more wisdom in dealing with people in general. I experience this all the time, in subtle ways... there's the co-worker who wants to tell me what I should do in my life, then when I disagree with him i'm dubbed "stuborn" and little passive aggressive comments are continuously made becuase I'm not changing my ways... but truth of the matter is.... the real heart of the matter is... he doesn't like it that i'm not letting him control me.

I find few people really have a healthy concept of boundaries. There's the mother in law who feels entitled to voice her opinion and tries to "help" by basically sticking her nose where it doesn't belong... and when confronted she states "i'm just being a mother" as if her being a mother entitles her to have a say in what choices we make. Those are unhealthy boundaries.

Seems most of soiciety still supports and enables unhealthy boundaries... that same co-worker continues his behavior but no one confronts him, though many are offended by him, not even the magager who states "oh he's set in his ways" though that same manager would ring someone else for the same behavior.

My grandmother causes so much turmoil in our lives... she slanders people... expects everyone to stop what they are doing to do things for her, but makes it clear that she won't inconvience herself to do things for you.... and when a few people have stood up to her she pouts and has a fit... and who ends up apologizing? They do. And when someone like myself comes along and says "oh no, that's not going to happen, you're not going to treat me or my family that way" I'm called "new aged" because I'm standing up for myself and my family.

Rolls eyes..

So anyways, i'm praying and asking God to help me not get so mad at people when i feel like they are trying to control me... while giving me the confidence to not be manipulated and learning how to let the emotions they display as a result of my asserting my boundaries to just wash off my back.... knowing that most people just don't like to be told no.

I've been called rebellious by a peer because I didn't agree with his philosophy on spiritual things... and i'm thinking "rebellious? that assumes that you are my authority.. but my dear you are not"

Someone isn't "rebellious" because they don't agree with you. That's idiotic thinking right there.

So like I've said... not meant offensively though it may offend... to each his own.

You might let someone treat you badly in the name of love, but in my opinion that is not love, you are not doing that person any favors. So in essence my way is love as well....

HB

Rembrandtfan · Mar 11, 2008

hisbloodformysins said:
You might let someone treat you badly in the name of love, but in my opinion that is not love, you are not doing that person any favors. So in essence my way is love as well....

HB

I find that when I set a boundary with someone, it motivates me to love that person more. If I am allowing them to take advantage of me, I may appear loving on the outside, but on the inside, I have distanced myself from them and I am breeding resentment. Setting boundaries is a way of connecting. You are being honest with someone and making them aware of a behavior that creates distance between themselves and others. It is not the same as striking back, for that would be wrong.

Yitzchak · Mar 11, 2008

I have an observation. It seems to me that those who object strongly to setting boundaries are those who violate boundaries... People who have been victimized by people not respecting their boundaries seem to welcome boundaries but people who are the violaters kind of like it the way it is....That is one reason why it is important for a person to set boundaries without waiting for the agreement of the person who is violating their boundaries....

Setting boundaries in marriage

He's my best friend

יצחק

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

He's my best friend

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

He's my best friend

Regular Member

He's here, the Phantom of the Opera

Regular Member

יצחק

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

He's my best friend

He's my best friend

He's my best friend

He's my best friend

He's here, the Phantom of the Opera

יצחק

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