Services

[ChoirDir]

A question for my Catholic Brethren:
With the changes made in Catholic Churches with Sunday Services, ie Sunday Mass on Saturday evenings, do the Catholics still have a Vespers service on Saturday? If so what is the structure of the service? I know of the similarites between the Divine Liturgy and the Mass.

 

[kimber1]

okay call me stupid.. what's Vespers service?

 

[Polycarp1]

The Daily Office is a set of, originally seven, brief services of Scripture and prayer, observed in religious orders. Many devout Christians found it meaningful to read them, individually or in small groups, and some parishes offered them.

The original list was:
Matins -- either midnight or at dawn
Prime -- at the beginning of the day, often combined with either Matins or Lauds
Lauds -- morning service
Terce -- the third hour of day
Sext -- the sixth hour of day, usually at noon
None -- midafternoon
Vespers -- at sundown
Compline -- just prior to bedtime

The church has reduced this to four: Morning, Noon, Evening, and Compline. Breviaries are available for personal or group keeping of the Daily Office.

Some churches offered Vespers as an evening prayer service, distinct from the Mass.

With the relative scarcity of ordained priests in colonial areas, Matins (incorporating Lauds) and Evensong/Vespers were very common -- and gave rise to the traditional Protestant (non-Eucharistic) worship services.

 

[ChoirDir]

Vespers is an evening service of the canonical hours

 

[nyj]

With the changes made in Catholic Churches with Sunday Services, ie Sunday Mass on Saturday evenings...

What do you mean "with the changes made" ChoirDir? You see, it's comments like this that raise the hackles of every Catholic here on this board. For your information, the Catholic Church has always had Sunday Mass on Saturday evenings (exactly what else do you think Vigil Masses are?), it's even attested to in the New Testament.

Please, in the future, address your posts in a more civil manner. Thank you.

 

[kimber1]

what do you mean by canononical errors?

 

[ChoirDir]

What do you mean "with the changes made" ChoirDir? You see, it's comments like this that raise the hackles of every Catholic here on this board. For your information, the Catholic Church has always had Sunday Mass on Saturday evenings (exactly what else do you think Vigil Masses are?), it's even attested to in the New Testament.

Please, in the future, address your posts in a more civil manner. Thank you.

Why are you always so hostile? I was born a Catholic. Back in the 60's there was no such thing as a Saturday evening Mass! Mass was strictly held on Sundays only except for feast days. This is my last answer to you NYJ. I find you to be rude and always looking to pick a fight

 

[ChoirDir]

Polycarp
Thanks for the answers. I found your comment on Protestantism interesting.
Do you have any info on the contents of the Vespers service?

 

[Polycarp1]

I can link to the Episcopal Church's Evening Prayer service, which is taken straight from medieval Catholic Vespers services, if that's OK. I don't know if there's a Catholic breviary on the Internet.

 

[ChoirDir]

Thanks Polycarp. With some of my experiences with Episcopals/Anglicans, it seems they have a lot in common with the Orthodox. I have even found E/A web sites that use some of the same music we do

 

[Wolseley]

Let's all try to remain low-key, folks. That goes for everyone.

You can find good information on the Divine Office here: http://liturgyny.catholic.org/lithours.htm.

 

[nyj]

Why are you always so hostile?

I'm not hostile. I object to your misrepresentations, of which this is just the latest.

Back in the 60's there was no such thing as a Saturday evening Mass!

That's odd, because Pope Pius XII, in 1953, in the Apostolic Constitution Christus Dominus, talks about the legitimacy of a Saturday evening Mass. That is seven years before the 60's even started and nine years before Vatican II.

Also, as I stated earlier, the Church has always held Vigil services which clearly attests (feast day or no) to the legitimacy of a Saturday evening service.

I find you to be rude...

What's rude, IMO, is coming in here and insinuating that what you call changes (which really are nothing but anecdotal comments on your part) detracts from our claims of Apostolicity. That's rude ChoirDir. As for my own attitudes, I'll reflect on your comments, but I can't help but be reminded about Jesus' comments about the speck, the log and the eye.

 

[Miss Shelby]

Why are you always so hostile? I was born a Catholic. Back in the 60's there was no such thing as a Saturday evening Mass! Mass was strictly held on Sundays only except for feast days. This is my last answer to you NYJ. I find you to be rude and always looking to pick a fight

I've known NYJ for a long time, and I can vouch that he wasn't trying to pick a fight with you. He is just a very matter of fact person. You are fairly new to the board. He wanted to let you know that sometimes feathers get ruffled with miscommunications. That's all.

Michelle

 

[ChoirDir]

Thank you Wolseley

 

[ChoirDir]

For any of my Catholic Brethren interested in learning more about Vespers in the Catholic faith please check out this site
http://www.shrinesf.org/vespers.htm

 

[nyj]

I don't know if there's a Catholic breviary on the Internet.

This is the best one I have found, and is the one I use. You can actually get each day on PDF.

http://www.liturgyhours.org/

 

[pax]

I think the reasoning evening Masses weren't as common prior to the 60's was that the communion fast was from midnight of the preceding day until the time Holy Communion was received.

The structure of Evening prayer is as follows:

Introductory verse ("God come to my assistance, Lord make haste to help me. Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now, and will be forever. Amen. Alleluia")

Then a hymn may be sung or said

The first antiphon is recited then a psalm, then the Glory be, then the Psalm prayer, and then the antiphon is repeated.

The second antiphon is recited, then a psalm, then the Glory be, then the Psalm prayer, and then the antiphon is repeated.

The Third antiphon is recited, then a Canticle (from the NT at evening prayer), then the Glory be, and the antiphon is repeated.

Then there is a short reading, which in a communal celebration may include a homily.

Then the Gospel canticle is recited (with its antiphon and followed by the Glory be). At evening prayer it's the Magnificat, at Morning Prayer, the Benedictus, and at Night Prayer, the Nunc Dimmitus.

After the Gospel Canticle various intercessions/petitions are asked

The Our Father and the closing prayer are recited

Morning and evening prayer may end with a blessing by a priest or deacon if celebrated communally otherwise it ends with the verse, "May the Lord bless us, protect us from all evil, and bring us to everlasting life. Amen."