Serve or Submit to Mary?

[Chris†opher Paul]

Who does this? What Catholic documents contain this idea, if any?

Is this not idolatry and breaking of the First Commandment?

"Nobody can serve two masters" - Jesus Christ

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Please help, I can't be Catholic if this is true.

 

[devoted]

Relax sOuljah, this is not hard, as it seems.

What was/is your relationship with Mary? Do you pray the rosary daily?

This whole thing has made me at Mass (Today is feast Mary, Mother of God) give myself to her service in a new way.

I was thinking about you sOul. And what came to mind was 'what is the worst thing you think will happen if you gave yourself totally to Mary?' My answer was, she would only lead us to Jesus. She can not/will/does not do anything but lead us to Jesus. So the more you give to her the more you are led to Jesus.

Giving yourself to her IS giving yourself to Jesus, it can't be anything but giving yourself to Jesus. She gives what you give to her, to Jesus and this is the best way to reach him wouldn't you say? God saw fit that the best way for us to receive Jesus was through Mary, right? Well then if you give yourself to God through her, can you see how that is a more perfect way of giving yourself to God than by just giving him yourself with out her intercession?

Have you ever prayed the morning offering? What do you think that is all about? Through Mary's immaculate heart, I offer all my joys prayers works suffering of this day in union with the sacrifice of the Mass being said through out the world.

What an awesome thing, this Mother holds us all together in her love and she takes our frail attempts at pleasing the infinite and eternal God that as you know our works are but "dirty rags" and she adorns them with her own virtues which I know, you know our far more perfect than anyone else's. This is what makes our sacrifices acceptable to God that they are offered by and receive from Mary’s hands.

This does not take anything away from Jesus because it is all because his merits that our lady intercedes for us. With offer ourselves to her service in union with Christ who together offered Jesus’ sacrifice to the father for the redemption of mankind. Co-redeemer with Jesus simply means just that, with Jesus she offers, not equal to or better than or different from, but with Jesus. She is perfectly united with Jesus and calls us into this union with her and her son.

Look in the scriptures, it was Mary that began Jesus’ ministry, it was Mary that said to him after finding him in the temple "Why have you done this?" What she was saying was 'you know your hour has not come.' and he in returns says to her at Cannon "My our has not come" and she says..."Do what ever he tells you." She began his ministry, she with her fiat brought us a savior and it is she that will always lead us home to Jesus, never away.

Maybe I should ask you what you find upsetting about this?

 

[sklippstein]

Soul.....i think perhaps u are confusing worship? We worship Christ . Mary is an intercessor.

 

[devoted]

Let me make a correction, it is because of Jesus' merits that Mary is perfect and it is because of Jesus' merits that she can be our intersessor. Offering what we have to the father. She keeps nothing for herself she gives all to the father. Her will as it was at calvery is so much in union with God's will that she would never do anything outside of his will. Father, Son and Spirit is her God too, and she bows to them too. She would never have you do anything differently than that. That is how you can know whether or not devotion to her is true and not false. It will lead you to worship the Father more and it will not ask you to worship Mary. This is not what she seeks. Worshipping God is her end for you and not what she seeks for herself.

 

[panterapat]

Souljah,

Mary is a multiplier of graces. She takes our feble efforts and perfects them to present to her Son. To place yourself in Mary's care or to even be her "slave" is to be drawn in closer to the divine life of Jesus. Mary always points to Jesus. She always tells us, "Do whatever He tells you."

In Christ through Mary,
Patrick

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Maybe I should ask you what you find upsetting about this?

The word "serve."

The word "submit."

The word "slave."

Those being applied to Mary is blasphemy in my eyes. I am a slave to the Lord Jesus Christ alone.

I have no problem with Mary being an intercessor. But I have a big problem "serving" her, even if it is supposed to bring me to Christ. She is supposed to pray for us and help us, not be our master.

Relax sOuljah, this is not hard, as it seems.

I can't relax, I am having a crisis here. I agree with everything about the RCC except for this idea. Even if it is just in the "devotion" category, it strikes me as very odd that they Magesterium wouldn't correct these words, "serve Mary." If this is accepted as devotion, what is to say it won't move up to Dogma later?

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

She always tells us, "Do whatever He tells you."

Thats right, she doesn't say, "Serve Me"

 

[devoted]

Originally posted by panterapat
Souljah,

Mary is a multiplier of graces. She takes our feble efforts and perfects them to present to her Son. To place yourself in Mary's care or to even be her "slave" is to be drawn in closer to the divine life of Jesus. Mary always points to Jesus. She always tells us, "Do whatever He tells you."

In Christ through Mary,
Patrick

 

Thank God there is another Catholic on this forum who understands this? I was beginning to feel like the lone ranger.

 

[devoted]

Originally posted by s0uljah
The word "serve."

The word "submit."

The word "slave."

Those being applied to Mary is blasphemy in my eyes. I am a slave to the Lord Jesus Christ alone.

I have no problem with Mary being an intercessor. But I have a big problem "serving" her, even if it is supposed to bring me to Christ. She is supposed to pray for us and help us, not be our master.



I can't relax, I am having a crisis here. I agree with everything about the RCC except for this idea. Even if it is just in the "devotion" category, it strikes me as very odd that they Magesterium wouldn't correct these words, "serve Mary." If this is accepted as devotion, what is to say it won't move up to Dogma later?

 I don't think it will ever be dogma but do as our lord recommend we do "let tomorrow take care of it's self...do not worry."

Slave and submit and serve...what will it get you if you did these things? Jesus, Jesus and more Jesus. I guess I should not spring on you that it is most pleasing to Jesus when we offer him Mary's heart to receive him in Holy Communion.

There is a book by Scott Hahn "Hail Holy Queen" and if you can not get this book I will be happy to send you a copy, you need something to help you get this.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Slave and submit and serve...what will it get you if you did these things? Jesus, Jesus and more Jesus.

Yeah, I understand your point, but I am not declaring that I serve anyone but Christ. If I am really serving Christ, I shouldnt have to say I am serving Mary.

 

[devoted]

You don't have to if you don't want to...but how are you going to ask Mary to pray for you if you don't 'submit' yourself to her by bringing you petitions to her in prayer?

When you ask her to pray for you aren't you putting yourself in her hands? Aren't you submitting in that way, turning the matter over to her?

Being her 'slave' would be living to do God's will. Serving her would be serving God's people.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

I ask her as a Mother to help me ask the Father for help, etc. I don't ask her as a "Mistress". IOW, asking for intercession does not equate to servitude.

 

[devoted]

~I ask her as a Mother to help me ask the Father for help, etc~

And do you think you are not submitting in doing this? You are trusting that she will bring your petition to a happy close are you not?

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by devoted
~I ask her as a Mother to help me ask the Father for help, etc~

And do you think you are not submitting in doing this? You are trusting that she will bring your petition to a happy close are you not?

Sure, I trust her. I dont submit to her. Or serve her.

 

[devoted]

Explain to me in your own words the difference.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

I ask for her help as a Mother when I do to the Father. I dont think I am doing works, or having faith, etc, in her name.

 

[Stormy]

I would think that the problem of worshipping Mary would arise if you were able to pray and see her without instantly seeing her Son.

Mary is not a substitute for God. I do not care for her role as co-redeemer.

It seems to imply that Jesus was not fully capable of redeeming mankind.

Mary had nothing to do with our salvation other than giving birth.

God in his wisdom and power could have found, or made, another suitable vessel to deliver his Son.

All praise to God!

I hear you say that Mary was this and that... but how can I know that this is knowledge from God and not merely the folly of man?

Are all these Mary statements that you make related to infallible statements from the Pope?

 

[devoted]

Have you ever in trusted a matter over to the saints like in a novena? That is submitting your prayer to them so they will bring it to God's throne in heaven, they have a much better way of asking for your intention and it pleases God that he gives them the special privilege of answering certain prayers, like St. Anthony. His specialty is lost objects. Do you ask him to help you talk to God in a novena? Or do you ask him to bring the matter to a close for you?

Same thing with Mary, but in devotion to her ALL that we do is through her intercession in order that she will make it more pleasing to God because it is her going to God with your prayer, not just you or her there as a back up. She takes your prayer and she makes it her prayer and brings this to the father. Remember she will not do anything outside his will so you can trust that God’s will- will surly be done because he can refuse his Mother nothing.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

That is submitting your prayer to them

Submitting a prayer in this sense means the same thing as submitting a letter to a company. Or filling out a form on the internet, and hitting, "Submit Reply"

You were using submit like we submit our very will to her.

Not the same thing at all.