Self-Torment

We are here to defend the truth, and to speak the truth in love. I'm sorry you believe I am not living up to this, ThienAn.

prodigal, Proverbs 16:9 is my favorite verse, not 9:16. If you are referring to it from someplace else, it must be a typo.

Originally posted by Josephus
Just as God can forgive and forget our sin totally and remember it no more, so too that works in reverse: that God "forgets" and chooses not to know our future choices at the point that such knowledge would limit the free will we have to please him by faith.

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I don't see how God's knowledge limits free will? I asked my little brother,
Q-Do you think God knows what you're thinking?
A- Yes
Q-Do you think God knows whether you're going to watch
a movie later?
A- Yes
Q- Does God know what you will be in 5 years' time?
A- Yes
Q- Why?
A- Because God is GOD!

Q- Does His knowing affect your free will?
A- What do you mean?
Q - Do you feel you are like a robot if God knows what
choices you make?
A - Nooo.
Q - Why ?
A - Because I am making my own choices
Q - How would you be like a robot then?
A - Only if God intervenes.

Very child-like and simple faith my brother has and lots of other Christians I know too think the same.

When does God intervene?
When we pray.

So if God intervenes when we pray...do we lose free will?
No! Because we choose to ask Him to intervene!!

Originally posted by Josephus


Does this make sense? It's kind of a freeing aspect of knowing that your choices aren't already determined by fate, and by a rigid program that God knows all about.

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You've jumped a few steps ahead to a place I don't know of. I am a Christian, I don't believe in fate. And by my brother's simple answers, you too can see that he and I believe that our choices are determined by ourselves, not fate. We are all responsible for own actions. God knows our choices. We are making our own choices. There is no 'rigid program'. It is as simple as that.

Originally posted by Josephus

Instead, it is freeing to know that God works with our choices, both good and bad, so that no matter where we are in our walk with Him, He always knows the way back on the right path that he DOES want you to follow and KNOWS is the most PERFECT path for you.

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I'm sorry Josephus but I don't understand you very well. How about I tell you what I believe which is really very simple.

You talked about a 'preferred will' earlier. That is weird 'phrasealogy' to me. I will just say 'God's will'.
God's will we can know when we read the Bible. He desires that none should perish, that all should know Him. He desires close fellowship with us. God's will with regards to our lives, we can know if we seek Him and obey Him.

If I am not a Christian, God's will is that I should know Him and accept His gift of eternal life.

If I am a Christian, God's will is His perfect plan and purpose for my life where He can best be glorified, and of course for us to grow in the knowledge of Him.

Now as a Christian, I can seek God's will and follow it. If I choose not to, I forfeit myself God's best for my life. If I mess up early in life and have sidetracked from the path God intended me to follow...all is not lost if I come to Him in repentance and seek His will again. I can still glorify God but maybe I went through more conflict to come to that path. Maybe I miss out on the blessings I could have received from God.

Samson was a man God wanted to use. Instead he gave in to the flesh and was sidetracked. But towards the end he repented and God still used him. Now Samson didn't have to die. God could still have delivered him and he would be the first blind judge to be used by God. Instead he died killing his enemies. He chose that way. We are not robots.
Our free will is valid. God's knowledge and God's will in no way tarnishes it.

God's preferred will sounds terrible to me! You made God sound human. It implies that God prefers something over another but not in absolute terms. God's will shows that God is decisive and that something is His best. If we mess up, God can still fulfill His will if we want Him to but in another way.

Originally posted by Josephus


Now, let's find a scripture verse where it says that God desires all men to come to know Him. Wow. That's quite a desire. Don't we think it's within His power to do that?

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I don't see any scripture verse?

I'll study the Bible more to see if God reveals to me what you are saying. I have to confess that when I wrote that first post to you, I was angry because of what you were saying about God. You do not have strong scriptural support for what you say. You did not show me any scriptural references. Now I read what you write this time and think that you are putting yourself in God's position as in you are guessing the thoughts and ways of God which are higher than man's. Frankly, your logic is no logic to me. I have no problems with God knowing everything about my life. I see very strongly how much freedom God has given to me and others. I do not see a clash between God knowing and the choices I will make.

To God be all glory,
Iffy

Originally posted by s0uljah


Why would you say something so evil? Why do you have this hate for us?

That is a ridiculous statement which deserves a sincere apology.

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souljah , don't be so 'dramatic'. It is childish. No one is hating anyone!! They say what they say because they love God. If someone says something you see as negative about the person you love, will you not react strongly. That is the simple reason for what they say. You are acting like you are in a soap opera, not a forum. Now, discuss but don't dramatise!

Josephus said...

Why did God create at all? If God doesn't need something, then why do it?

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Tell me... Have you never wanted to share your love and what you possess? You do not need to give... but you want to give.

Love grows when shared.

Need I remind you?? God is Love.

I repeat

God does not need you. You need him.

But God does love you and want you to share in all that he can give to you.

I fell that you are a good man and a good Christian.
But you have yet to humble yourself to God.
You seem self-important.
Please meditate on his word.
Get to know God.
Lose your self in his LOVE.

Originally posted by Josephus
We are here to defend the truth, and to speak the truth in love. I'm sorry you believe I am not living up to this, ThienAn.

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The truth of God does NOT need to be defended by anyone. It penetrates anyone and any soul. I'm more concerned that what you speak of isn't truthful.

If you say God doesn't know all things but all He does is guess, then, what's the difference between Him and John Doe?

Originally posted by s0uljah


Why would you say something so evil? Why do you have this hate for us?

That is a ridiculous statement which deserves a sincere apology.

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I don't hate you, and what I said was just merely a quote. Let me quote it for you,

Originally posted by s0uljah


Because they are co-creators with God, when a new life is formed.

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God knows all....a cute little story my preacher told last Sunday about a little boy who ate some cookies he wasn't suppose to and his mom said " You know that was wrong for you to eat those cookies don't you?" The little boy said, "yes." Mom says, " You know God saw you eat those cookies." Little boy says, "No He didn't Mommy I was under the table." This story was just a cute made up story...it isn't true...God really did know the boy ate the cookie God knows all things. Please don't limit God to human standards. Love and God Bless.

there is no point to this argument it is just someone looking for an argument like most people on this forum

this is a debate forum if you can read which it looks as though you can't it is under open disscussion and DEBATE then under ask josephus

yes just because i think this argument has no point don't mean that i don't want God to bless you maybe he will bless you with the ability to read soon

I made one comment and you had to dis me because of my comment and i don't let people dis me. you proved to me you couldn't read by saying this wasn't a debate forum when it is clearly labled as one

dis is the same as challenge and you never brought up that everyone was saying there was no point until i posted and that made it seem to me that you wanted to start something and i don't back down, and you can call your little moderator friends they scare me a whole whole lot