Self-attribution & religion

[Mr. Pedantic]

I had a thought (just bear with me on this!), and it was triggered by this post:

First off being angry at God is not going to help you. From what I read you need to work on you. You say you can't get a woman to be interested in you, that's just it, you can't do that. You have to find one interested in you, for you. My advice is to just be you, stop trying to find her, she will find you. When you are truly ready, and God will know when that is you wont, He will send her to you. Make a life for yourself and learn to be happy without someone and when you are happy she will show up. Women are attracted to smiling happy confident guys and when you are happy you will smile and when you are smiling and happy you will be confident. Good luck!!

The purpose of this is not to critique the post itself per se, it's just so that if you want you can understand where my thought process went.

So it occurred to me that anecdotally, I have noticed many times where religious people (but Christians in particular) have attributed good things to God, but bad things to themselves (or others, as the case may be).

Now, we all practice self-serving, or self-attribution bias. For those who aren't familiar with the term, it's the practice of attributing successes to oneself while offloading the blame of failures onto others. We all do it - Wikipedia actually has some very good examples relating to everyday life.

What I got from Brian's post and my own musings was, perhaps part of many Christians' faith and belief in God is perpetuated by a kind of misrepresented self-attribution bias - they believe implicitly that all good deeds are attributable to God, but all bad things are attributable to them, and Adam and Eve (by implication). This would be true almost by definition, since the classical depiction of God is that of a perfect being, and it keeps the name of God unsullied by all the imperfections of this world, and removes the cognitive dissonances of having to explain away things like famine, plague, war, etc.

So my (rather long-winded and ineloquent) question is, has anyone done any research to further flesh out any details of this process, if it exists as a scientific/psychological concept?

Note that the question of whether God exists or not is kind of irrelevant. I don't want arguments on the existence of God. For the purposes of this I'm not interested in God as a physical/metaphysical being, but rather God as a concept that affects cognition and emotion.

Also note that this isn't to say that religious people are 'more' biased than non-religious people. As I say, everyone does this, and this was not intended as a slur on religious people.

 

[Gadarene]

I don't know if research has been done on it, but certainly the pattern you have noticed has been noticed by other people in the past.

Another instance of this is attributing the bad things done in the name of Christianity to "religion" but not the good things.

Reactions to perceived answered prayers is another one. The set of outcomes are the same no matter if you pray or not and no matter who you pray to, as is the distribution of outcomes any time it's been seriously investigated. But if something goes as desired, praise the lord. If it doesn't, cue "god works in mysterious ways" or "it's the will of god".

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

I don't know if research has been done on it, but certainly the pattern you have noticed has been noticed by other people in the past.

I remember reading about religious followers where having prophesies invalidated actually made their belief stronger. Can't remember why, though.

Another instance of this is attributing the bad things done in the name of Christianity to "religion" but not the good things.

This is a very good point. As I said, we all do this, it seems

Reactions to perceived answered prayers is another one. The set of outcomes are the same no matter if you pray or not and no matter who you pray to, as is the distribution of outcomes any time it's been seriously investigated. But if something goes as desired, praise the lord. If it doesn't, cue "god works in mysterious ways" or "it's the will of god".

I know that doctors complain of this as well. If it goes well, God did it. If it goes wrong, the doctors must have screwed up

 

[SavedByChrist94]

Because Good things come from God, evil has no relationship to God.

so when I help the old lady to cross the street out of compassion, I do so because I decided, but ultimately because I was made in God's image of love, of good. so yes part of the reason would be because I decided to help the lady, but it was God making me in His image of goodness and writing the law in my heart that ultimately did it. an addition would be God, particularly The Holy Spirit influencing me or helping me.

Everything Good goes to God since He is Good, anything Good is from God(The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit).

now evil things have no relation to God and He is against all evil, when something evil happens it would be evil to blame God, and that makes the person not only a coward for blaming God for their own faults, but blaming someone who is Morally Perfect.

So yes, All Good things are because of God, that's why All The Glory Goes to The Trinity.

I don't know if research has been done on it, but certainly the pattern you have noticed has been noticed by other people in the past.

Another instance of this is attributing the bad things done in the name of Christianity to "religion" but not the good things.

That's because anything Good is done in the name of God/Christianity/Jesus Christ, and anything bad is not.

Reactions to perceived answered prayers is another one. The set of outcomes are the same no matter if you pray or not and no matter who you pray to, as is the distribution of outcomes any time it's been seriously investigated.

That's making an assumption against His existence, however as proven, God exists, therefore that assumption is false and disproven. God exists, therefore the set of outcomes are not the same and it rest on His will.

But if something goes as desired, praise the lord.

Because He caused it, if it was good and according to His will, of course Praise Him, Prayer answered or not, He doesn't have to answer anyone and I fully accept that.

If it doesn't, cue "god works in mysterious ways" or "it's the will of god".

That's because He does, otherwise you're assuming He does wrong, which is wrong since He is Factually Morally perfect, all moral values are from Him, all evil He hates. when God doesn't give us what we ask there is a reason to it, still should not take away from The Honor and Praise He Deserves and we are Obligated to give Him.

 

[elephunky]

Because Good things come from God, evil has no relationship to God.

God created evil so in a way its connected.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Because Good things come from God, evil has no relationship to God.

so when I help the old lady to cross the street out of compassion, I do so because I decided, but ultimately because I was made in God's image of love, of good. so yes part of the reason would be because I decided to help the lady, but it was God making me in His image of goodness and writing the law in my heart that ultimately did it. an addition would be God, particularly The Holy Spirit influencing me or helping me.

Everything Good goes to God since He is Good, anything Good is from God(The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit).

now evil things have no relation to God and He is against all evil, when something evil happens it would be evil to blame God, and that makes the person not only a coward for blaming God for their own faults, but blaming someone who is Morally Perfect.

So yes, All Good things are because of God, that's why All The Glory Goes to The Trinity.



That's because anything Good is done in the name of God/Christianity/Jesus Christ, and anything bad is not.



That's making an assumption against His existence, however as proven, God exists, therefore that assumption is false and disproven. God exists, therefore the set of outcomes are not the same and it rest on His will.



Because He caused it, if it was good and according to His will, of course Praise Him, Prayer answered or not, He doesn't have to answer anyone and I fully accept that.



That's because He does, otherwise you're assuming He does wrong, which is wrong since He is Factually Morally perfect, all moral values are from Him, all evil He hates. when God doesn't give us what we ask there is a reason to it, still should not take away from The Honor and Praise He Deserves and we are Obligated to give Him.

Sorry, but none of this is relevant. I don't really care about your opinion of God. I care about your opinion of yourself.

 

[SavedByChrist94]

God created evil so in a way its connected.

No He didn't. evil is anything against God and His image.

 

[SavedByChrist94]

Sorry, but none of this is relevant. I don't really care about your opinion of God. I care about your opinion of yourself.

you wrote all that trash, I refute it and all I get in reply is an irrelevant sentence? attempt to refute what I said if what I said isn't true, not doing proves I'm right in what I wrote.

 

[elephunky]

No He didn't. evil is anything against God and His image.

Try again...

Isaiah 45:7 I even have a few different translations for you

New International Version (©1984)
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

New Living Translation (©2007)
I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, the LORD, am the one who does these things.

English Standard Version (©2001)
I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

 

[SavedByChrist94]

Try again...

Isaiah 45:7 I even have a few different translations for you

New International Version (©1984)
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

New Living Translation (©2007)
I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, the LORD, am the one who does these things.

English Standard Version (©2001)
I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Refuted.Does God create evil? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

you wrote all that trash, I refute it and all I get in reply is an irrelevant sentence? attempt to refute what I said if what I said isn't true, not doing proves I'm right in what I wrote.

[Staff edit.] First, the post you 'refuted' so poorly wasn't even mine. Second, I stated in my original post that I didn't care about questions regarding God's existence. I thought I had sufficiently implied that I wasn't interested in your semi-coherent recycled ramblings about God and morality.

I don't want to know what you can regurgitate. I want to know what you can THINK. If you can't, please kindly leave.

 

[elephunky]

Refuted.Does God create evil? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

There are a lot of holes in this, but I am not going to bother discussing them with you.

 

[AlexBP]

So it occurred to me that anecdotally, I have noticed many times where religious people (but Christians in particular) have attributed good things to God, but bad things to themselves (or others, as the case may be).

Now, we all practice self-serving, or self-attribution bias. For those who aren't familiar with the term, it's the practice of attributing successes to oneself while offloading the blame of failures onto others. We all do it - Wikipedia actually has some very good examples relating to everyday life.

What I got from Brian's post and my own musings was, perhaps part of many Christians' faith and belief in God is perpetuated by a kind of misrepresented self-attribution bias - they believe implicitly that all good deeds are attributable to God, but all bad things are attributable to them, and Adam and Eve (by implication). This would be true almost by definition, since the classical depiction of God is that of a perfect being, and it keeps the name of God unsullied by all the imperfections of this world, and removes the cognitive dissonances of having to explain away things like famine, plague, war, etc.

You've proposed a theory, and it at least stands up to scrutiny better than certain other theories that I've heard. As an orthodox Christian, I believe in original sin. That is to say that I believe God created humanity to be good, but then something happened which corrupted human nature. Orthodox Christians believe this because in our perception, it is the best explanation for the factual reality we see around us. As Chesterton said:

I am not going to enter here into the real doctrine or original sin, or into what the New Theology writers calls the doctrine of depravity. But whatever else the worst doctrine of depravity was, it was a product of spiritual conviction. Men thought mankind wicked because they felt themselves wicked.
​

So the idea of original sin arises from empirical observation and self-observation. As Saint Paul notes in the epistle to the Romans, he can see plentiful examples of human wickedness wherever he looks in history or present circumstances, and also within himself.

I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
​

Christians attribute bad things to ourselves because that is what outward observation and inward self-examination lead us to do.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

You've proposed a theory, and it at least stands up to scrutiny better than certain other theories that I've heard. As an orthodox Christian, I believe in original sin. That is to say that I believe God created humanity to be good, but then something happened which corrupted human nature. Orthodox Christians believe this because in our perception, it is the best explanation for the factual reality we see around us. As Chesterton said:

I am not going to enter here into the real doctrine or original sin, or into what the New Theology writers calls the doctrine of depravity. But whatever else the worst doctrine of depravity was, it was a product of spiritual conviction. Men thought mankind wicked because they felt themselves wicked.
​

So the idea of original sin arises from empirical observation and self-observation. As Saint Paul notes in the epistle to the Romans, he can see plentiful examples of human wickedness wherever he looks in history or present circumstances, and also within himself.

I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
​

Christians attribute bad things to ourselves because that is what outward observation and inward self-examination lead us to do.

This is interesting, because the Christian view that the God is perfect and humans are the fallible ones who 'created' sin is not the only interpretation of human error and 'wickedness', and it's not necessarily even the best one, objectively speaking. For example, many ancient mythologies/religions had the Gods as fallible and spiteful, capricious, etc. as we are, perhaps even more so. It would logically follow that creating humans, they would have no other template to base us off, so we are, by extension, fallible and spiteful and capricious. Even if we were somehow perfect, one might argue that we became corrupted by their influence.

I guess this is just to say that it's not inevitable that people believe in a perfect higher being who created us perfect but merely allowed us to become imperfect. I'm not sure which scenario would be more comforting, though.

 

[SavedByChrist94]

This is interesting, because the Christian view that the God is perfect and humans are the fallible ones who 'created' sin is not the only interpretation of human error and 'wickedness', and it's not necessarily even the best one, objectively speaking. For example, many ancient mythologies/religions had the Gods as fallible and spiteful, capricious, etc. as we are, perhaps even more so. It would logically follow that creating humans, they would have no other template to base us off, so we are, by extension, fallible and spiteful and capricious. Even if we were somehow perfect, one might argue that we became corrupted by their influence.

I guess this is just to say that it's not inevitable that people believe in a perfect higher being who created us perfect but merely allowed us to become imperfect. I'm not sure which scenario would be more comforting, though.

God made us good, with a tendency to do good(evident by children) and then Adam and Eve messed up knowing what evil is, bringing it to all humanity. it's like the good kid who has a family of murderers, you think he's not going to murder himself? That's why God tells us that we our sins from our First Parents, not because we're related or in the genes(That actually is not Biblical) but because of who we grew up with, also satan's temptations add to the problem.

Don't get [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]y at me just because you have no reading comprehension. First, the post you 'refuted' so poorly wasn't even mine. Second, I stated in my original post that I didn't care about questions regarding God's existence.

Why? why not look for truth? why are you even here?

I thought I had sufficiently implied that I wasn't interested in your semi-coherent recycled ramblings about God and morality.

I didn't ramble, if I was rambling then you could prove how rape would be wrong under "naturalism", it cannot, therefore "naturalism" is false since rape is wrong.

 

[SavedByChrist94]

There are a lot of holes in this, but I am not going to bother discussing them with you.

Why? if there are, you could easily attempt a rebuttal.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

God made us good, with a tendency to do good(evident by children) and then Adam and Eve messed up knowing what evil is, bringing it to all humanity. it's like the good kid who has a family of murderers, you think he's not going to murder himself? That's why God tells us that we our sins from our First Parents, not because we're related or in the genes(That actually is not Biblical) but because of who we grew up with, also satan's temptations add to the problem.



Why? why not look for truth? why are you even here?



I didn't ramble, if I was rambling then you could prove how rape would be wrong under "naturalism", it cannot, therefore "naturalism" is false since rape is wrong.

I don't want your half-baked answers because they aren't really relevant to my question.

I reiterate: if you cannot find a way to contribute to this thread and actually answer the OP's question, I would ask that you please leave.

 

[elephunky]

Why? if there are, you could easily attempt a rebuttal.

Because that is not what this thread is about.

I also find you to be aggressive and non civil when discussing such topics. I will not waste my time on you.

 

[SavedByChrist94]

Because that is not what this thread is about.

I also find you to be aggressive and non civil when discussing such topics. I will not waste my time on you.

you're the one who went off topic in post http://www.christianforums.com/t7699520/#post61708479

I don't want your half-baked answers because they aren't really relevant to my question.

I reiterate: if you cannot find a way to contribute to this thread and actually answer the OP's question, I would ask that you please leave.

And your question was answered and refuted, http://www.christianforums.com/t7699520/#post61708473

I have contributed, answered the question and refuted the thread. if not then by all means attempt a rebuttal to that post.

 

[elephunky]

you're the one who went off topic in post http://www.christianforums.com/t7699520/#post61708479

It was actually related. If god created evil then it stands to reason that he would create bad events.

And your question was answered and refuted, http://www.christianforums.com/t7699520/#post61708473

I have contributed, answered the question and refuted the thread. if not then by all means attempt a rebuttal to that post.

I will not indulge you.