Seeking wisdom and advice (Crazy long Post)

[rugrat]

Alrighty fair warning this will be long... very very long. and detailed

So I am in a relationship and I am looking for some advice. Preferably from some mature married "peoples" (I know you have got some wisdom that you can give). I will also add I am not posting here in place of talking to mentors, spiritual leaders in my life, my parents, or God for that matter.

So where to begin.

I am 19y/o and I am college student. I currently have about 3.5 years of university under my belt between a smattering of ministry schools, medical classes (I am an EMT), and actual college. Originally I was looking to be worship leader/musician. While I still LOVE music I am looking at the medical field and probably eventually medical missions.

This last year I began as a Freshman at North Central. (great to be freshman again... darn those non-accredited ministry schools ) In the first week of the semester I had been in a relationship (had been dating for 7 months), but God made it clear to me she wasn't the gal for me, she had no intention of doing mission work and I had given up what God wanted me to do for a girl. That was a really dumb decision on my part (note to self read Jonah more carefully...). Breaking off that relationship was one of the hardest things I have had ever had to do (I am fairly serious person when it comes to these sorts of things).

I should add a year and half ago I took a little over 6 months to intentionally be single and God led me to study marriage in Biblical perspective. I hence have a whole shelf of marriage, sex, and relationship books. In my dorm this last year the joke was I did marriage counseling on the side Someday I want to be the best husband I can be and for me (the avid reader) that means gaining knowledge, wisdom, and understanding where I don't have any. As with any great skill that takes years or learning, practice, and preparation. Not to mention a life time to master.

So I was happily going through the semester. I was pretty busy between being a full time student and having two jobs (a restaurant and an inner city youth pastor of sorts). However in one of my classes there was female (there always has to be a female doesn't there). Now I will be honest I did not find her attractive at all.. in fact she was pretty annoying. She was VERY standoffish towards guys and she was senior who I knew before there was an inkling interest towards her that she would never date a freshman. However we started up a playful banter and one time began talking after class. I was struggling leading that youth group (I am totally the white kid the burbs haha) and she was giving me advice on working with inner city youth (she was a teaching major at the time).

Anyways we began talking quite a bit. I was utterly amazed by this woman's character. For me it is fairly noticeable when someone wants to be "a little more than friends" I mean honestly why else would you spend that much talking to someone?? (she was unaware this was observable or I was even thinking this) I also found out she had never been in a relationship in her life. So Christmas break came and I decided we were hanging out (at the end of semester) more than is good if there is not an intention of a relationship. IMO I have no business hanging out with a female a lot and talking to her if I am not pursuing her. So I decided to take that Christmas break month to decide. Either I would ask to court/date her or I would just not really talk to her when I got back and let the friendship dwindle. I prayed about it and thought about it. I still did not really find her attractive, but her character was pure gold (too bad all the other guys missed it). Anyways I decided to write her a letter which I had delivered to her (through a friend) the day before the semester started. It was soon I felt, but to avoid hurt on her part I thought it better that my intentions would be known. I also took the time to write as courtship letter as it would have be in the late 1800's (slightly modernized).
So when she was unpacking her dorm room unexpectedly a box arrived addressed to her and it was filled with chocolate and of course the letter. This was a complete surprise to her. She had liked me for a while and had not known at all if I liked her. She had been praying over Christmas break about it wishing that something might come to fruition, but that God would help her to hang out with me less. The letter ended up being a huge hit and all of her friends were jealous and I think some of them still are... (I think this a good sign? ) Honestly now I just know she likes chocolate a lot... She was now dating a freshman and the fact I was dating a senior some how made me macho on my floor... college guys soooo weird (do not get me started!)

I remember when she responded to the letter. She said she wanted to talk to me.. I didn't know what she would say. So I was of course nervous. She said yes, then we went out to the car to talk (MN is dreadfully cold in the winter.. Frozen Chosen!) she was so shy even to the point for most of the conversation she gazed out the window. She wanted to make sure I wasn't joking.
Those were the humble beginnings...

I did my best with work to take her on date with me atleast once a week. (exploring my favorite authentic Chinese and Vietnamese eats around msp) As I live very close to school she would also come home with me on the weekends so she could spend time with my family. I am the youngest so all my siblings have moved out and so we have extra bed rooms. My mom and her happen to enjoy the exact same hobbies (sewing, cooking, and tea) and enjoy each others company greatly. There was always supervision! I am very happy to bring home a girl that my mom enjoys spending time with (both of my sisters are married and live far away) as my mom misses having girls around. I also visited my girl friends mothers house several times. She would come to church with me sometimes (she had her own also). Anyways if I wasn't working she was usually with me. Even though both of our schedules were crazy busy we still found a lot of time to hang out and talk. Sometimes we would spend 12 hours together in a day talking and working on stuff together.

Little did I know this standoffish girl who I did not find very attractive I would come to love and find dashingly good looking. Quite the catch.

One of her life long dreams was to do missions. One of mine too
I have had the opportunity and privilege to do an extensive amount of traveling and I have even briefly lived over seas. My sister and her husband have an orphanage in Central America so I go and visit often. Anyways she not know what she wanted to do after she graduated so I suggested she move to Central America and teach English there. God opened up the doors for that. So a month ago I flew to Central America with her. (her first time out of the country and to see the ocean!). That was big step for her. Fortunately I have known the missionaries she is working with for many years (couldn't think of better people to work with) and my sister and her husband are very close. My sister and her husband have played significant role in mentoring and giving me advice over the years. I also really admire their marriage. I still do not think to this day they have ever fought... They have been married over 8 years and have 3 kids. (I love babies!) I have been with them 24/7 for weeks straight in stressful situations never seen them fight or even mutter a harsh word (I notice when my parents or another couple says something) Anyways so my girl friend is currently working in Honduras and loving it. I know she is in very good hands. My parents also have a house there and travel there every few months.

However this leads to my questions. (Yes all of the above was the back story... ) anyways
I have never been quite so good at "dating" I am serious person. And it has been my intention to marry this gal, which I have let my parents know. My mom advised taking more time and seeing how my girl friend liked being oversees (so far she has loved it). My gf is from WI, but she has lived in MN for the last 5 years while going to school and was looking to move back to MN (has friends) and I am here of course. However I am now looking at going to pre-med. In MN the healthcare system is awesome, but it is very hard to find EMS jobs (hence why I have been working at restaurants even though I am an EMT!). While I would love that job and hope to get my paramedic cert. someday and spend a few years being an EMT ultimately it is a lot of hours, doesn't always pay well, and is not always the most useful overseas as far as the practice of medicine is concerned. While doing some medical missions work recently I ran into a whole bunch of students from Lee University and I believe I will be going there this next semester. This is TN! This made me step back for a second and think about the relationship. My girlfriend noticed and asked.

I love this girl very much. She will be coming back to the US in Nov or December of next year and she would like to be by me. Now that does not sit right with me. If she moved to TN. She would be all by herself and I would be the only person she would know. She would be losing her whole base of support. If things did not work out it would be bad. And also it would just be difficult. My love language is touch.. period... I will be quite honest I look forward to having sex when I am married more than I probably should... Especially when I have no idea what it is like! Well this standoffish girl I started dating also happens to have touch as her love language (never would have guessed) and she seems to look forward toward that sort of thing almost more than I do! And we mentioned I consider her to be dashingly beautiful. We are both virgins and we have a strict rule which is our lips do not touch.. We feel that is pretty good safe guard against all the stuff the tends to come after that sort of thing. So far so good! However I think purity would be REALLY hard if she moved to TN and we were dating. The only hours I would be available would be odd and the college has very strict rules about guys/girls hang out and obviously being at her apartment would be a very dangerous idea.

So this leaves me and her with some serious DTR. I think in this next 5-6 months I should decide is this girl I want to marry and spend the rest of my life with? and if so marry her. If not then obviously end it. We both consider marriage to be permanent. The Divorce word is gone from the dictionary, there is no plan B, and it is final no matter how rough things get. This is something we both want, but we do not think it either wise or prudent to rush into. This is one of the most important decisions in life. So I told her yesterday that I am reconsidering things and having doubts. I love her very much and it is better for both of us to have doubts now then end up in a bad situation down the road. So I am in search to find doubts, turn up the stones, and consider. It is my aim to pray like mad. Because while we love each other we both feel it is better to do this now and be "for sure" if. So if that makes sense I am trying to find doubts out of love? Ending the relationship would be extremely hard for both of us, but not ending it now and having it go downhill later is worse. I would never want her to be in a situation like that. She is also taking time to consider.

Perhaps I am being overly cautious, but that is my aim at this point. Please understand I have an extraordinarily high view marriage. I have seen some absolutely blessed relationships that I hope to emulate and I also seen some bad ones I never want to be like. I know this is a not journey I can go on by myself I desperately need God.

So I will start with strengths things I like.
-We are both very hard workers (I am used to working two jobs and school) in fact the problem for me is learning to take a break! She is used to taking care of a household.

-We both are teachable and responsive to each other

-We take time to actively listen and express feelings

-She is very submissive (in a good way) she listens and cares about how I feel. I try to do my best to understand her and get to the root of any problems.

-I feel she communicates extremely well when she is upset. She stays logical and grounded. She says I am the same

-She says I always make her feel very calm (she has had anxiety for several years and her mom noticed after we started dating that her anxiety levels were way down)


-I don't really ever get angry or yell people... I find this to be destructive behavior. At the point I am feeling frustrated I calmly talk things over with the individual or party

-We both love to read and learn (there is so much great advice in books)

-I know she has a high level of character and I would regard myself as having that also

-We balance each other out spiritually.. I lean a little bit more charismatic ( I have seen God to some crazy things... and I love to see God work. She grew up very conservative. So she is open to new things, but simply wants the support of scripture. This is great. She makes sure I do not go off with the band wagon and I help her to step out in faith a little more. This is one of those differences that is absolutely great!

-she is very caring everything I could want in wife and mother for my children.


-We have a willingness to follow God where ever he leads


-We both do not mind living humbly

-She is smart and we think similarly.

-We have been in a lot of situations together and she usually handles things fairly well.. (a must for the mission field as you never know what you will encounter!)

-She and I both have walks with God. We are not dependent on each other. Although we try our best to give each other a lift when we can.

-And as a guy I will say she is very beautiful... and she seems to be like the type of woman most guys wish they had (refereed to as the lucky few in marriage books...)

 

[rugrat]

There are lots of other great things about her and the relationship, but it is time for me to get some concerns down.

Concerns for both of us.
-----
1. We are young. She is almost 21 and I will soon be 20, but we are both young inexperienced in many areas of life, immature as young people are etc. I know we would have to do maturing together and we are ok with that we would simply want to have a good grasp at what we are jumping into.

2. We are both driven, a little impatient, and "eager little beavers" who have got "the urge to merge" We want to make sure this is what God wants for our lives and that we are not taking things too quickly.

3. Different Financial backgrounds. Her mom scrapes by at about 20k a year and they have lived in a shelter before. My family is very hard working (not there hers is not). My dad started a business and he now makes 7 figures. Which is more than I ever will make. I am fine with that. I don't need much of these things, but these are still two VERY different ways of being brought up.

Personal Concerns
---
1. I am young. I know I mentioned this, but I feel like there are many areas I would fall short. She is such a great girl and doesn't deserve that. I (think I) am (maybe a little) more mature than some people my age, but I still lack the wisdom that comes with age and the Godly wisdom that comes from spending years and years walking with Jesus.
2. Neatness- I am a man... I am becoming a huge fan of neatness and organization how ever the daily implementation of this is lagging a little bit behind my desires in the area cleanliness and order. I am working on improving this however that may be hard for her. She used to be crazy about things being clean a few years ago. So far she is helping remind me to be a better steward and I help remind her to relax little.. you know enjoy the food we have cooked while it is hot. the dishes can wait until after dinner.
3. I sometimes have unrealistic wishes.. I know no girl is the perfect wife (it is more about me trying to become the best husband I can be) but I kinda wish she was more musically inclined (she plays classical piano, but is not trained) vs I play a plethora of instruments.. but maybe we can work on that ;-) have always wanted to lead worship with my wife... or at the very least have worship together sometimes. Also I feel like the most dissonant thing about us is that for the most part my sense of humor is absolutely lost on her. I am really hoping this will change.. We still joke, but not like I do with some people... but I suppose if we did hit it off that well all of the time we would spend all of our time laughing... I need to better learn to accept her as she is perhaps.
4. Money- I do save 50% of what I make at the moment, but I also spend a lot on gear. I have a very nice drumset, a nice bass rig, and huge pedal board setup. I am at the moment saving up for computer for recording and producing electronic music as well as doubling as a live stage setup for keys... This is good quality stuff that will be around a long time. I do not view at as waste, but as an investment. I view this next purchase as probably my last large one for a long time as obviously as an engaged or married man I do not have that kind of money to be dropping. Not sure why I am worried I just want to provide as much as I am able. I would certainly never make a large purchase with out my wife's permission. Still...
5.Spiritual Leader- A husband needs to a spiritual leader (and I believe that should be done in humility with tender and loving care) I know for myself if I am having a difficult spiritually I can have a really hard time filling those boots in a relationship. It is through God that I get wisdom and understanding. I can never be as loving and caring without Him. I would fail. I know this is true for just dating I can only imagine the increased magnitude in marriage and parenting. If I am to be a rock I must be anchored to the rock. Any tips on going hard after God and bringing that into a relationship or marriage would be appreciated.
6.Caring- I notice sometimes I am not as patient with my mother as I should be. I treat her much better than I did years ago, but there is room for improvement. I want to be a better son. I know how I treat my mother is how I will treat my wife. I want to treat my wife the best I can. This ties in with being connected with God. When I have that plum line.
7.Provision- I good get a job as an EMT, but it would be hard to do that full time and juggle school. I wish I would be able to better financially provide. After I finish PA or medical school I will be able to though.


For her
–
I am still trying to figure out all of the trouble spots. Before she left she gave me her journal from the past year.. This has helped me to understand how she thinks and reacts to things much better.


To best explain a multitude of potential problems it is best that I tell her history. She has two siblings (a younger brother and sister) Her dad abused my girlfriend and her mom. Mostly physiologically, but he also beat them and did other things to the mom (if you get my drift). This has of course left my girlfriend scarred. The worst part for her was he never harmed her two siblings. He always been nothing but kind to them, showering them with gifts, taking them on trips, and tells them he doesn't know what is wrong with their mother and sister. The dad started taking an interest sexually in my girlfriend when she was 12-13. Would look at her oddly and stuck his hand up her shirt once (not a big deal to her). She is convinced if God had not protected her and if her dad would have had a way to not get caught he would done horrible things. This is why her and the mom left. The mom as you can imagine is quite shell shocked. She is a very sweet, I enjoy talking to her, and spending time with her. Things are difficult for her. The mother works two part time jobs to scrape by. I hate to say this, but she really has no drive anymore (sad to see) I will explain later. My girlfriends two siblings (16 & 19), think that her and the mom are crazy and are lying. (they were younger at the time things happened). This creates a host of potential problems. I love my girlfriend and have been doing my best to help her through things. She has also seen a psychologist for many years and has made a lot of progress.


As relates to home life
1.Boundaries with mom- gf was her moms only friend, companion, and confidant for many years. This is extremely unhealthy. When ever my gf is home she feels a lot pressure with this. Mom is still extremely worked up as she has to be involved with her ex due to the 16y/o. He really goes out of his way to be a jerk and stick it to them (it is a shame for a man to do such a thing!). Every-time she spends a significant amount of time at home mom starts bringing burdening her and which tends to bring past hurts and frustrations up. The mom unfortunately has no drive to go out and make friends. I love my gf's mom, but I am guessing she is a little bit of take person and to make friends you need to give (if you know what I mean). Her mom needs someone to talk to and process things with, but that is not exactly how the parent child relationship should be. So that is one difficulty.
2.Abandonment- My gf is the only child who treats her mom well and cares for her. She sometimes needs help around the house as she has arthritis. She feels abandoned by her daughter that she has gone off to do missions work. I think she feels like I would be taking away her daughter (the only person who will care for her) if we get married. I will say I think the best thing for the mom would be to get away from the area once she can. I am not trying to paint her as not a good person. She is an amazing woman. She is so strong. She endured more than any woman should ever have to. She has my respect. She put up with years of a horrible relationship and would have continued to do so out of duty if it had not been that her daughter was in danger. At that point she broke and could not respect her husband... (it is hard because he preaches at his church...) I cannot imagine. In the future I would not mind at all having my gf's mother living nearby someday (provided good boundaries for their sake) so that she can be taken care of. I do not know if this is an option as she is very routine type of person who dislikes change. (part of being so wounded I think).
3.Siblings- My GF's siblings are very controlling, mean, and selfish. Her brother wants nothing to do with her and cusses her out when he sees her. Her sister wants to get her way and when she can't she cries, has fit, and gets mad. My gf is a very carrying person I have told her that her sister sometimes just needs to grow up ;-)
4.Dad- This is the biggest issue. She had a dad who made life a living hell for her. He went out of his way to cause trouble and give her a hard time. It makes her mad that it was just her and lied about everything to her siblings. It makes her mad that he is so loved at church and that he preaches while still being so controlling and basically straight up evil. There is unforgiveness. This is no small matter. My gf knows this is a big issue. She had been afraid of that man for most of her life. After her mom and her left he tried breaking into one place they lived, he ran into their car (he was mad someone had given them a nice car!), he has come twice and befriended churchs causing my gf and her mom to ostracized and cast out because they were “sinners”, he has pitted her siblings against her, and even physiologist when she was younger after he broke her wrist and she tried to tell.. He made people believe she was crazy. This was not a good childhood. I am one of the few people she will open up and talk to about this. For most people she shuts down and does not want to talk. I heard her say she wishes he could die and that she hates him. Forgiveness is stronger than all of this. She has told me to see him would make her consider harming herself. She has been so afraid for so long. Today she made a huge step in the right direct. She said it is time to forgive him and that she would like to see him and forgive him in person (she has tried a lot but feels she needs to do it face to face.) You can bet I will be there with her. As long as I am with her I will not let him touch a hair on her head. (He would not trying anything if I was there)...
5.Fear- Along with the daddy issues is this irrational fear that he will get her, he will pit me against her, that people would believe him and not her (it has happened in the past), he would find out where she was going in Honduras and befriend the missionaries, and even that he would befriend my parents (who my gf loves and considers family already) a turn them against her... It took a few times to convince her that he was not going to find out who my parents were drive 9 hours buy them dinner and convince them. She no longer fears these things and realizes she doesn't have to worry and I know as a long as I am around I will be looking out for her...
(this is not so much a fear anymore, but perhaps you can begin to understand the power he had over her...)


Personal for her
1.Insecure-She has some insecurity’s sometimes about whether people like her or not etc. Fairly normal stuff I believe. She is working on having a completely God based security (the One who never changes)
2.Anxiety- She takes medicine for anxiety. She ups her dosage on meds every 6 months. Since being in a relationship with me she feels much more calm and has not needed to up the dosage. While I am not saying she does or does not need medicine. I have noticed when she stressed or anxious that it is a normal time to be:big life changes (like graduating college and moving to different country) or when she is on her period.. The rather entertaining thing we always laugh about is I always know. She will be really frustrated about this and that.. And I will be like “hun I think you are going on your period take a deep breath, (if it is late) go to bed” and the next day or a few days later she will be like “well you were right how did you know?”... I will just go with it was very obvious. Anyways back to anxiety I think increasingly relying on God as good. As some one from the medical field I will say medicine is good, but I have seen things that cannot happen according to the text book..
3: Depression and suicide- She used to deal with both of these growing up from psychological abuse from her dad. Last year she got hit by a car as pedestrian and I will say as an EMT I do not know how she survived with so few injuries! I looked at her patient care report and there is no way someone gets off that kind of accident with only head injuries! No doubt God intervened! I am happier for it. Due to brain damage she dealt with depression and suicidal thoughts this last summer. This is not something I have noticed since I have known her. Before I was Christian I dealt with depression and I wanted out on life. If God had not intervened I would not be typing right now. So these are things I am fairly good at recognizing and helping people through. If this issue ever comes up.
4: People pleaser- She feels very bad if someone is unhappy with her (even if it is on them and not her) this is bad boundaries and can have do with anxiety about what other people think. This is something she is working. I have even had to work on boundaries myself (in a ministry capacity as of late)
5.Socially awkward- This is starting become less annoying and more entertaining (in a good way) She often misunderstands what people mean and says things that... well you know just do not come off right... ;-) we often have a good laugh after. This is part of why she totally misses my humor I think.. Anyways as she has more social interaction (it was a little more limited growing up than most people) this goes away more and more.. although she has definitely said some classic lines...

 

[rugrat]

These are all of the bad and negative things I can come up with (believe me I am trying) If it is not readily apparent we care very much for each other. We are trying to follow God. We are taking these next few months to DTR (why I am posting here I need counsel) If it ends we will both be heart broken, but we will both be a peace with things. She has told me I am the best first boyfriend she could ask for and that means a lot to me. I simply hope I have treated worthy of that and in a Godly manner all the time. She has taught me a lot too.
If we continue the road ahead I am hoping will be full of joy. I wish to get both my parents and her mothers permission before I would marry. I believe this to be very important. If things did progress we would be getting married soon as far as things go. She would not be back in the US long and we would not have long to plan things. Having two married sisters I know weddings take a lot of planning. We are ok with simple, but still.


I know that road would be difficult as we would have very little money. I would be very busy with pre-med school and work. If we end up together we both want to wait quite a few years on kids as can be done. As much as I love kids. At this point I would not be great dad... Until that special time (I cannot wait!) I get to love on all of my nieces and nephews.. (I am diaper changing master ninja! {MC Hammer "can't touch this"} ) ok so maybe most of you are pretty good too ;-) I know things would be difficult as we would both still be maturing and growing,but we would have each other and as long as we listen to God's voice, are teachable, listen, care for one another, and are prudent I believe things can work quite well. This is the first girl who I have really felt like helps me spiritually, provokes me to grow, and is willing to support me in whatever I do. I know with some like that behind me I can do just about anything. Behind any great man is a greater woman...


So you have now finished reading.. Congratulations you deserve a pizza or something. As you can tell I am young, in many areas naive, and I am not sure about everything. I need your advice. I am not sure how to be the best I can be and to always call out the best in her. ( I think that is what relationships should do!) Is there anything I am taking to lightly that I should not be overlooking. Am I to worried over nothing? Is there anyone who has dealt with forgiveness on that level that could help me understand. She and I are not always sure how to she can do more. She wants to put all of that behind her desperately and she. God can heal, but sometimes I know it takes time. So please if you feel led to say anything please do. If you have suggestions, tips, or whatever else feel free to “spill the beans.” Sorry again about the length. (I am now at 9 pages unbelievable!) If you have nothing to say if you wouldn't mind praying for God's will.



Shalom,
Rugrat

 

[FutureAndAHope]

I read your first post. If I was you I would marry the girl. You are not going to find many girls who are into missions.

I am an evangelist, and love God, me and my wife had a short courtship (just a few months) before getting married, but we both felt good about it. Our first year of marriage was hell, yet now we have one of the best, most awesome relationships. Still not perfect. We are two separate people, different desires, different goals, but we love one another. God will not let you down.

 

[seeingeyes]

You are the one who needs a pizza. That's a lot of work!

Is there anything I am taking to lightly that I should not be overlooking.

The boundaries thing is extremely important. If she cannot bring herself to separate from her mother, then...well frankly, you'll be marrying both of them. Not good. Don't marry her until she can demonstrably say "no" to her mother.

The forgiveness thing is important, too, but with the level of abuse that she dealt with, it's gonna take her a minimum of twenty five years to accomplish, unless he dies soon. That often speeds up the process. (Not being facetious there - it's easier to forgive someone who is safely in the ground.)

You can help her by standing with her against her father in everything. Encourage her to break all contact with him, and to continue going to counseling. Don't be tempted to try and heal the rift. Some things are better left broken. Be a safe place for her.

Also, be sure that she knows what forgiveness is. Too often we confuse it for reconciliation. But forgiveness is recognizing the wrong done to you, and refusing to punish the offender for it, even in your own head. That's it. Make sure she is working toward that and leaving reconciliation off the table for the foreseeable future.

Examine how she deals with forgiveness in less critical circumstances, though. Does she forgive her friends when they show up late or forget her birthday? Or does she silently harbor a grudge until it pours out years later? That would have a direct impact on how the two of you communicate.

The two of you will have mismatched expectations of cleanliness, music choices, etc, and that's to be expected. You'll work those things out the hard way just like the rest of us do. No escaping it.

You might get more responses from married folks if you post this in Questions from Singles About Marriage. Technically, I'm not even supposed to post here...I just don't follow the rules much.