Seeking advice, discernment

[wagonwheel69]

I apologize in advance for the grammar and spelling, I'm just laying it out. My wife and I have had a contentious relationship for some time, my wife has for lack of better wording control issues, they run very deep and I believe are actually part of a deeper problem I'd like to see clinically examined. But this is another story. My youngest son left home at 17 because he would rather live with partying friends than abide by meager rules of the home. Him and I had a good relationship up until about age 15 when he started acting out more. His mother started having a lot of conflict with him over his behavior to which I urged her to lighten up just a little and choose her battles strategically, my observation was she was taking his behavior too personally. She did not take my advice and it eventually came to a point where I had to step in because I felt he was pushing the line too far in disrespecting his mother. Almost overnight our relationship became rocky and she became his buddy. This hurt me because it limited my ability to speak into his life like I had been. In the time of his leaving home we all met with a Christian counselor for a spell. His suggestion was a behavior contract and if my son didn't want to abide by it he could leave. However he advised that if he did leave we should not allow him home unless it was a medical emergency, that he had to go out and take his knocks and stand on his own two feet. He is now almost 21 and over the last couple of years his and mine relationship has been slowly mending while he has stayed his mom's buddy, I honestly never understood why our relationship didn't rebound better. We have twice allowed him to come home for a spell defying the councilors advice and both times he left after not respecting the modest rules we put out(pick up after yourself, minor chores, respect other's privacy) During the last time he came home and stayed, I came in the house unnoticed and overheard my wife speaking poorly of me to him about rules, if not just mocking me. I've also gotten the impression this is not uncommon. IMHO she is acting more like a buddy and not enough like a mother but they are buddies none the less.

He has been staying with friends locally and was working a production job until he was fired for failing a drug test. My wife and I knew he was going to wear out his welcome where he was at. Our marriage is struggling badly right now, perhaps to the point of ending. His mother's stance for at least 6 months was that he was not coming back home again when he had to leave where he was at, he needs to stand on his own two feet and our marriage cannot sustain the stress. I was of the very same opinion and we were in agreement. My wife sees and talks to him much more than I do, they worked together until he got fired, she's been telling me that she has been telling him all along that he cannot come home again, that we need to work on the marriage, that it just wasn't going to happen, it wouldn't work. This is what she's told me she's been telling him and I agree, it's what's right. Last week inevitably he text me and said he wanted to talk to us about coming home, I told him of our marriage issues, What his mother has been telling him, I can't go against it and I agree. It won't work.

Here's where the recent problem begins. I went and told my wife about the text and what I told him. Immediately it turned into conflict, we had a brief spat, she got up in the middle of the conversation, wouldn't talk to me, got in her car and left(which isn't uncommon) I went out to my shop to do some work and 10 minutes later she walks in with our son. I felt blindsided badly. She said okay we're all here let's hammer this out, I was floored. I again told him of our marriages issues, stress, his not following rules and what his mother has been telling him for months. She was argumentative and nasty throughout, not engaging our son but fighting with me over mostly grammatical things and time frames of when we knew, he knew and such. This went on for basically an hour with arguing, her belittling me, often just mocking me. I finally said to her, you claim to be a Christian, you know this just isn't right what you're doing, she mocked me and said "oh now you're pulling that out, now that things aren't going your way" I asked what do you mean my way? She said this conversation isn't going your way so you pull the Christian thing out. I asked, so you're telling me you want him to move back home? She looked at me and said yes, I do. I felt like I was kicked by a mule. I just stopped, prayed for the Lord to give me his peace and his words. I regrouped myself the best I could and I said in front of them I have been trying to live as a Christian throughout this conversation, it's who I am not something I do, I told my son, I just don't see it working, this is something your mother and I need to discuss more together and we'll get back with you and suggested she take him back where he was staying.

The next day she said she was sorry about the argument, that she didn't want it to be a hindrance to him coming home. I told her I cannot in good conscience be on board with him coming home. A few tense days later I talked with her about how damaging I felt it was, I told her I didn't believe this isn't going away without some kind of work. She minimized the situation, said she thought what she was did what was the right thing to do at the time, she said it should be forgotten, should "just be water under the bridge"

I almost can't wrap my head around it all, on the surface what I'm seeing is a long deliberate effort to poison my son's relationship with me but even if it isn't, my take is that this is a major problem, not water under the bridge. Ultimately if our marriage is over what she did was hurt our son, regardless of her and I, the relationship between a young man and his father is so critical. I'm really hoping for some clarity as much as or more than advice. Am I over reacting?, under reacting? I'm at a loss, what do I do?

 

[snoochface]

Is your wife willing to consider marriage counseling? If so, I would urge you to go with her, and whether she is willing or not, I'd urge you to go alone as well. It sounds very much like she is gaslighting you, telling you things are one way (she doesn't want him coming home) and then doing the exact opposite, undermining you, poisoning the well with your son, etc. This is beyond unhealthy for both of you, and I think you'd benefit from hearing this from an unbiased third party. I'm sorry you're having to live this way, it sounds confusing and really damaging to all of you.

 

[Halbhh]

I apologize in advance for the grammar and spelling, I'm just laying it out. My wife and I have had a contentious relationship for some time, my wife has for lack of better wording control issues, they run very deep and I believe are actually part of a deeper problem I'd like to see clinically examined. But this is another story. My youngest son left home at 17 because he would rather live with partying friends than abide by meager rules of the home. Him and I had a good relationship up until about age 15 when he started acting out more. His mother started having a lot of conflict with him over his behavior to which I urged her to lighten up just a little and choose her battles strategically, my observation was she was taking his behavior too personally. She did not take my advice and it eventually came to a point where I had to step in because I felt he was pushing the line too far in disrespecting his mother. Almost overnight our relationship became rocky and she became his buddy. This hurt me because it limited my ability to speak into his life like I had been. In the time of his leaving home we all met with a Christian counselor for a spell. His suggestion was a behavior contract and if my son didn't want to abide by it he could leave. However he advised that if he did leave we should not allow him home unless it was a medical emergency, that he had to go out and take his knocks and stand on his own two feet. He is now almost 21 and over the last couple of years his and mine relationship has been slowly mending while he has stayed his mom's buddy, I honestly never understood why our relationship didn't rebound better. We have twice allowed him to come home for a spell defying the councilors advice and both times he left after not respecting the modest rules we put out(pick up after yourself, minor chores, respect other's privacy) During the last time he came home and stayed, I came in the house unnoticed and overheard my wife speaking poorly of me to him about rules, if not just mocking me. I've also gotten the impression this is not uncommon. IMHO she is acting more like a buddy and not enough like a mother but they are buddies none the less.

He has been staying with friends locally and was working a production job until he was fired for failing a drug test. My wife and I knew he was going to wear out his welcome where he was at. Our marriage is struggling badly right now, perhaps to the point of ending. His mother's stance for at least 6 months was that he was not coming back home again when he had to leave where he was at, he needs to stand on his own two feet and our marriage cannot sustain the stress. I was of the very same opinion and we were in agreement. My wife sees and talks to him much more than I do, they worked together until he got fired, she's been telling me that she has been telling him all along that he cannot come home again, that we need to work on the marriage, that it just wasn't going to happen, it wouldn't work. This is what she's told me she's been telling him and I agree, it's what's right. Last week inevitably he text me and said he wanted to talk to us about coming home, I told him of our marriage issues, What his mother has been telling him, I can't go against it and I agree. It won't work.

Here's where the recent problem begins. I went and told my wife about the text and what I told him. Immediately it turned into conflict, we had a brief spat, she got up in the middle of the conversation, wouldn't talk to me, got in her car and left(which isn't uncommon) I went out to my shop to do some work and 10 minutes later she walks in with our son. I felt blindsided badly. She said okay we're all here let's hammer this out, I was floored. I again told him of our marriages issues, stress, his not following rules and what his mother has been telling him for months. She was argumentative and nasty throughout, not engaging our son but fighting with me over mostly grammatical things and time frames of when we knew, he knew and such. This went on for basically an hour with arguing, her belittling me, often just mocking me. I finally said to her, you claim to be a Christian, you know this just isn't right what you're doing, she mocked me and said "oh now you're pulling that out, now that things aren't going your way" I asked what do you mean my way? She said this conversation isn't going your way so you pull the Christian thing out. I asked, so you're telling me you want him to move back home? She looked at me and said yes, I do. I felt like I was kicked by a mule. I just stopped, prayed for the Lord to give me his peace and his words. I regrouped myself the best I could and I said in front of them I have been trying to live as a Christian throughout this conversation, it's who I am not something I do, I told my son, I just don't see it working, this is something your mother and I need to discuss more together and we'll get back with you and suggested she take him back where he was staying.

The next day she said she was sorry about the argument, that she didn't want it to be a hindrance to him coming home. I told her I cannot in good conscience be on board with him coming home. A few tense days later I talked with her about how damaging I felt it was, I told her I didn't believe this isn't going away without some kind of work. She minimized the situation, said she thought what she was did what was the right thing to do at the time, she said it should be forgotten, should "just be water under the bridge"

I almost can't wrap my head around it all, on the surface what I'm seeing is a long deliberate effort to poison my son's relationship with me but even if it isn't, my take is that this is a major problem, not water under the bridge. Ultimately if our marriage is over what she did was hurt our son, regardless of her and I, the relationship between a young man and his father is so critical. I'm really hoping for some clarity as much as or more than advice. Am I over reacting?, under reacting? I'm at a loss, what do I do?

It's really guessing from a distance, but when you intervened because he was disrespecting his mother too much, was there any real and full acknowledgement of his grievances? He might (guessing here) feel you are guilty of invalidating legitimate grievances he had, instead of acknowledging (at that time) their legitimate validity.

Now, all the complex pieces aside, I've come to believe that marriages only flourish solely on the basis of whether the two people are doing what Christ said to do, when He commanded us to love each other and to forgive each other even if not deserved! In other words, love covers (really fixes) many wrongs. Forgiveness is very powerful to change situations. So, it's preemptive what to do -- forgive even though the person hasn't earned it. From the heart. Totally. Sometimes that requires help from above! I've had to pray for help at times for this kind of thing. Also remember that the Lord's prayer itself also is very powerful to aid us on a daily basis. I've found on the days I prayed the Lord's prayer, even relationships that have some disagreements go much better!

 

[Acts2:38]

I apologize in advance for the grammar and spelling, I'm just laying it out. My wife and I have had a contentious relationship for some time, my wife has for lack of better wording control issues, they run very deep and I believe are actually part of a deeper problem I'd like to see clinically examined. But this is another story. My youngest son left home at 17 because he would rather live with partying friends than abide by meager rules of the home. Him and I had a good relationship up until about age 15 when he started acting out more. His mother started having a lot of conflict with him over his behavior to which I urged her to lighten up just a little and choose her battles strategically, my observation was she was taking his behavior too personally. She did not take my advice and it eventually came to a point where I had to step in because I felt he was pushing the line too far in disrespecting his mother. Almost overnight our relationship became rocky and she became his buddy. This hurt me because it limited my ability to speak into his life like I had been. In the time of his leaving home we all met with a Christian counselor for a spell. His suggestion was a behavior contract and if my son didn't want to abide by it he could leave. However he advised that if he did leave we should not allow him home unless it was a medical emergency, that he had to go out and take his knocks and stand on his own two feet. He is now almost 21 and over the last couple of years his and mine relationship has been slowly mending while he has stayed his mom's buddy, I honestly never understood why our relationship didn't rebound better. We have twice allowed him to come home for a spell defying the councilors advice and both times he left after not respecting the modest rules we put out(pick up after yourself, minor chores, respect other's privacy) During the last time he came home and stayed, I came in the house unnoticed and overheard my wife speaking poorly of me to him about rules, if not just mocking me. I've also gotten the impression this is not uncommon. IMHO she is acting more like a buddy and not enough like a mother but they are buddies none the less.

He has been staying with friends locally and was working a production job until he was fired for failing a drug test. My wife and I knew he was going to wear out his welcome where he was at. Our marriage is struggling badly right now, perhaps to the point of ending. His mother's stance for at least 6 months was that he was not coming back home again when he had to leave where he was at, he needs to stand on his own two feet and our marriage cannot sustain the stress. I was of the very same opinion and we were in agreement. My wife sees and talks to him much more than I do, they worked together until he got fired, she's been telling me that she has been telling him all along that he cannot come home again, that we need to work on the marriage, that it just wasn't going to happen, it wouldn't work. This is what she's told me she's been telling him and I agree, it's what's right. Last week inevitably he text me and said he wanted to talk to us about coming home, I told him of our marriage issues, What his mother has been telling him, I can't go against it and I agree. It won't work.

Here's where the recent problem begins. I went and told my wife about the text and what I told him. Immediately it turned into conflict, we had a brief spat, she got up in the middle of the conversation, wouldn't talk to me, got in her car and left(which isn't uncommon) I went out to my shop to do some work and 10 minutes later she walks in with our son. I felt blindsided badly. She said okay we're all here let's hammer this out, I was floored. I again told him of our marriages issues, stress, his not following rules and what his mother has been telling him for months. She was argumentative and nasty throughout, not engaging our son but fighting with me over mostly grammatical things and time frames of when we knew, he knew and such. This went on for basically an hour with arguing, her belittling me, often just mocking me. I finally said to her, you claim to be a Christian, you know this just isn't right what you're doing, she mocked me and said "oh now you're pulling that out, now that things aren't going your way" I asked what do you mean my way? She said this conversation isn't going your way so you pull the Christian thing out. I asked, so you're telling me you want him to move back home? She looked at me and said yes, I do. I felt like I was kicked by a mule. I just stopped, prayed for the Lord to give me his peace and his words. I regrouped myself the best I could and I said in front of them I have been trying to live as a Christian throughout this conversation, it's who I am not something I do, I told my son, I just don't see it working, this is something your mother and I need to discuss more together and we'll get back with you and suggested she take him back where he was staying.

The next day she said she was sorry about the argument, that she didn't want it to be a hindrance to him coming home. I told her I cannot in good conscience be on board with him coming home. A few tense days later I talked with her about how damaging I felt it was, I told her I didn't believe this isn't going away without some kind of work. She minimized the situation, said she thought what she was did what was the right thing to do at the time, she said it should be forgotten, should "just be water under the bridge"

I almost can't wrap my head around it all, on the surface what I'm seeing is a long deliberate effort to poison my son's relationship with me but even if it isn't, my take is that this is a major problem, not water under the bridge. Ultimately if our marriage is over what she did was hurt our son, regardless of her and I, the relationship between a young man and his father is so critical. I'm really hoping for some clarity as much as or more than advice. Am I over reacting?, under reacting? I'm at a loss, what do I do?

Firstly, I would say that marriage counseling from a Christian well versed in these matters, would be something you both should consider. Especially if just talking it over with each other one on one just doesn't seem to be fanning out well.

Secondly, the advice the counselor gave the first time might have been to more effect if you guys didn't disregard his/her advice not once, but two times. My parents stood very firm, since I use to do drugs, partying, fighting all the time in my younger days. They did not allow me to return, and years later I look back, I think to myself, wow. I hated them at the time and a while after but it was the right move on their part. I love where I am at now. I matured, got married, stopped my drug use and all those bad habits, became a Christian, and have a family of 4 now. It is the right move to have your son learn this. He will be quite upset for a while, even if he doesn't tell you, but if/once he matures, he will understand it. Especially when he gets a family of his own.

Also, have you asked her directly, "why do you always go against what I say?". Have you asked her directly, "why are you going against what you yourself told me you are going to do?" (in reference to her "saying" she would not let him back). If you haven't, it may be something you could inquire to her about, without raising your voice or anything of the sort. Just let it be known that you are curious as to why and that its not an attack. You just wish to understand what is going on and why. You may have already done this, I am not sure. My wife and I are direct. We speak direct. We are human so sometimes we get a little out of hand, but we make sure before the end of the day, that we work it out. Scripture tells us not to let the sun set on strife like this (Eph 4:26). Maybe you both need to have a "reset" button sit together and get to understand each others point of view and work from there, without bringing in accusations etc. The longer you delay, the more harboring of strife and building up of resentment.

Lastly, and not to attack you both, but to help you both see where you stand, what kind of Christians are you? This is not meant to be rude or combative, but to help look at yourselves and get some answers to help each other.
Are you once a month go to church types? Once a year? Once a week? Or do you meet every time Christians assemble?
The church I attend, opens its doors five times a week. Three times on Sunday, once on Monday night, and once on Wednesday night. My family goes to all of them except one that we absolutely cannot make because of timing. God understands if you, lets say, work on the Sunday morning and miss the one service since you are working to support your family, but since every church I know has an evening service, there is no excuse to not meet then. God will not understand if you miss Sunday morning because you wish to see a football game (Hebrews 10:25-27).

Many Christians are what I call "pew warmers" and/or "weekend warriors". They show up once in a while, sit there bobbing their heads, go home and never study, and continue in worldly things. This is not how a Christian should behave.

Hebrews 11:6 not only mentions that one needs faith but also states that you should "diligently seek" Him and you are rewarded for such.
How else can you diligently seek but to study the gospel?

How can you make a defense of the gospel unless you study? (1 Peter 3:15)

An example also is here Acts 17:11.

I believe the more you two study God's word, the more you attend Christs church with fellow Christians to exhort one another etc, the more you pray and get prayers from others, the more your relationship with each other will strengthen. It's a coop effort though on both your parts to put Christ first, and work from there.

I hope this is good "food for thought". The best you can do is stay strong in Christ no matter what happens.

 

[wagonwheel69]

It's really guessing from a distance, but when you intervened because he was disrespecting his mother too much, was there any real and full acknowledgement of his grievances? He might (guessing here) feel you are guilty of invalidating legitimate grievances he had, instead of acknowledging (at that time) their legitimate validity.

Now, all the complex pieces aside, I've come to believe that marriages only flourish solely on the basis of whether the two people are doing what Christ said to do, when He commanded us to love each other and to forgive each other even if not deserved! In other words, love covers (really fixes) many wrongs. Forgiveness is very powerful to change situations. So, it's preemptive what to do -- forgive even though the person hasn't earned it. From the heart. Totally. Sometimes that requires help from above! I've had to pray for help at times for this kind of thing. Also remember that the Lord's prayer itself also is very powerful to aid us on a daily basis. I've found on the days I prayed the Lord's prayer, even relationships that have some disagreements go much better!

I agree wholeheartedly, it's cliché but as the saying goes you can't change someone else you can only change yourself. I decided some time back that my first duty was to be faithful to the Lord and that gives me the strength to allow so much of the strife to roll off my back and forgive.

When I intervened, I tried to be very clear that I respected his views, I told him that I remember being frustrated with life when I was his age but he needed to stay strong, man up and get accomplished the things he needed to accomplish so he can be successful in life. My primary point of intervention at least to begin with was simply to explain to him that while he and his mother may not see eye to eye that he still needed to maintain a basic respect for her and that regardless of their differences he needed to do what was right

 

[wagonwheel69]

Firstly, I would say that marriage counseling from a Christian well versed in these matters, would be something you both should consider. Especially if just talking it over with each other one on one just doesn't seem to be fanning out well.

Secondly, the advice the counselor gave the first time might have been to more effect if you guys didn't disregard his/her advice not once, but two times. My parents stood very firm, since I use to do drugs, partying, fighting all the time in my younger days. They did not allow me to return, and years later I look back, I think to myself, wow. I hated them at the time and a while after but it was the right move on their part. I love where I am at now. I matured, got married, stopped my drug use and all those bad habits, became a Christian, and have a family of 4 now. It is the right move to have your son learn this. He will be quite upset for a while, even if he doesn't tell you, but if/once he matures, he will understand it. Especially when he gets a family of his own.

Also, have you asked her directly, "why do you always go against what I say?". Have you asked her directly, "why are you going against what you yourself told me you are going to do?" (in reference to her "saying" she would not let him back). If you haven't, it may be something you could inquire to her about, without raising your voice or anything of the sort. Just let it be known that you are curious as to why and that its not an attack. You just wish to understand what is going on and why. You may have already done this, I am not sure. My wife and I are direct. We speak direct. We are human so sometimes we get a little out of hand, but we make sure before the end of the day, that we work it out. Scripture tells us not to let the sun set on strife like this (Eph 4:26). Maybe you both need to have a "reset" button sit together and get to understand each others point of view and work from there, without bringing in accusations etc. The longer you delay, the more harboring of strife and building up of resentment.

Lastly, and not to attack you both, but to help you both see where you stand, what kind of Christians are you? This is not meant to be rude or combative, but to help look at yourselves and get some answers to help each other.
Are you once a month go to church types? Once a year? Once a week? Or do you meet every time Christians assemble?
The church I attend, opens its doors five times a week. Three times on Sunday, once on Monday night, and once on Wednesday night. My family goes to all of them except one that we absolutely cannot make because of timing. God understands if you, lets say, work on the Sunday morning and miss the one service since you are working to support your family, but since every church I know has an evening service, there is no excuse to not meet then. God will not understand if you miss Sunday morning because you wish to see a football game (Hebrews 10:25-27).

Many Christians are what I call "pew warmers" and/or "weekend warriors". They show up once in a while, sit there bobbing their heads, go home and never study, and continue in worldly things. This is not how a Christian should behave.

Hebrews 11:6 not only mentions that one needs faith but also states that you should "diligently seek" Him and you are rewarded for such.
How else can you diligently seek but to study the gospel?

How can you make a defense of the gospel unless you study? (1 Peter 3:15)

An example also is here Acts 17:11.

I believe the more you two study God's word, the more you attend Christs church with fellow Christians to exhort one another etc, the more you pray and get prayers from others, the more your relationship with each other will strengthen. It's a coop effort though on both your parts to put Christ first, and work from there.

I hope this is good "food for thought". The best you can do is stay strong in Christ no matter what happens.

Lots of good stuff there, I'm extremely active in church, both attending and serving as well as various groups and studies. I reserve an hour each morning for God's word and usually reference it throughout the day also. I'm not a prayer champion but I pray for her, the relationship, household daily and pray frequently daily. She attends church services I'd say 50-60% of the time currently, she is fairly knowledgeable in the word but I'm very uncertain of her walk currently. She's made troublesome comments about her walk but she's also kind of pushed me out of her spiritual life to the point my hands are somewhat tied except for my example. I'd say we have exhausted counseling at this time, she never said she wouldn't go but she didn't seem too happy about when we were going and it kind of petered out when scheduling was challenging for her.

 

[Acts2:38]

Lots of good stuff there, I'm extremely active in church, both attending and serving as well as various groups and studies. I reserve an hour each morning for God's word and usually reference it throughout the day also. I'm not a prayer champion but I pray for her, the relationship, household daily and pray frequently daily. She attends church services I'd say 50-60% of the time currently, she is fairly knowledgeable in the word but I'm very uncertain of her walk currently. She's made troublesome comments about her walk but she's also kind of pushed me out of her spiritual life to the point my hands are somewhat tied except for my example. I'd say we have exhausted counseling at this time, she never said she wouldn't go but she didn't seem too happy about when we were going and it kind of petered out when scheduling was challenging for her.

Then prayers is what I can do on my end for you. Keep on truck'n. God has never given us more than we can bare 1 Corinthians 10:13

 

[akmom]

It sounds like after years of being the harsh one, and driving him away, your wife finally saw the opportunity to "be the good guy" when you stood up for her, and totally threw you under the bus to win her son's affection.

I doubt she realizes that's what she's doing. But for whatever reason, she craves her son's approval and vilifying you is the way she figured out how to get it. That explains why she takes one position when you two are alone, and an entirely different one in his presence.

My family used to do this all the time. My mother had reservations about both my brother's and sister's significant others, and she'd gush all her concerns to me for hours. Then she'd beg me to say something to them, "because they listen to you." Well they listen to me because I don't have a history of nitpicking like our mom did. So I said okay. She made it sound bad enough that I was convinced to say something to the sibling. Well we all get together, I bring up some of the biggest concerns that Mom relayed to me earlier, and guess what? Mom chimes in her support for the sibling, and tells me (in front of everyone) to stop judging people so harshly. Seriously?? She asked me to say this!!

The first time, I was caught off guard. So I just dropped it. The second time, I called my mom out on it. I said, "Mom, isn't this exactly what you told me to say this morning? So why are you pretending to be all supportive of his relationship, when you just begged me over the phone to talk him out of marrying her? Make up your mind." She turned beet red. But I was tired of getting thrown under the bus and looking like the bad guy so she could sabotage their (bad) relationships and still look like the good guy. (Fast forward and both their bad relationships are history, so it all worked out.) Maybe it's time to call your wife out on her two-faced act, but preferably in private.

 

[mkgal1]

Maybe it's time to call your wife out on her two-faced act, but preferably in private.

I agree with this......and for the TWO of you to sort of re-group and figure out what the BOTH of you believe is best for your son, because pitting one against the other sure isn't what's helpful (and then follow up on it as a united front--if possible). I don't see it so much that your son living with you is what's causing the problems in your marriage....but the lack of agreement in what each of you believe is best for him.