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Seeing the US from abroad

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Beanieboy

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For the last few days, something has been really troubling me. It started with a debate about whether one should be forced to pay for others in need via taxes. There was some discussion about individuals having more control over where their taxes went, and certainly, there are a lot of wasted tax dollars. What bothered me is the general attitude: why should I care about someone else, all while claiming to be Christian.

I then went to see a movie, Slumdog Millionaire. A Slumdog is what children who live in the slums are called in Bombay. There are entire village living in what we would call a city dump. At one point in the movie, American Tourists ask a beggar boy, who they think works as a tour guide at the Taj Mahal, if he can give them a private tour, because they're special. The boy tries to say, "I'm not a tour guide (and a product of very underfunded education) when they say, "Oh, I'll make it worth your while", offering him $100.

As an orphan who is left to beg on the streets, he of course accepts, and makes everything up, such as why the prince wanted the princess to fall in love with him, so he built this Taj Majal hotel for her. In the meantime, they have stripped the American's car bare.

At one point, a policeman happens by, sees the child, and says, "You fraud! You don't work here!" pushes the child down, and kicks him in the face. The American couple say, "What is this about???" The boy cries, "You said you wanted to see the "Real India"??? Well, this is it!!!"

The woman says, well," then we are going to show you the Real America" and hands the boy some money.

The later show the Indians in a call center, where "Jenny", a fake name from an Indian whose English is coached to sound like the call is coming from inside the country, and not exported, like it often is.

I was bothered more by the broader message. How can adults use children as prostitutes, or remembering the mansions in mexico living next to the people living in the dump, a wall so that they don't even have to look at their poverty.

It's been weighing on me kind of hard, making it hard for me to sleep, so I spent some time in meditation today, and cried for about 2 hours. During that time, I went back to my childhood. My father worked for the gas company, had five kids, so understandably, we had hand me downs, but did ok. Down the street were some kids from rich parents. They often thought themselves better because they had more. They thought that God loved them more because he showered them with wealth. I remember one of the bratty kids asking me if I wanted one of their games that they were going to throw in the trash. It was Operation, and the nose didn't light anymore, and it didn't buzz. Someone took it, not knowing, and then brought it back, saying, "It's broken!!" She said, "So! You should be thankful!!" He answered, "For what????? Your trash? Thank you for giving me YOUR TRASH!!!" And she thought she was being generous, and that we should be thankful. She said, "You hate me because you're jealous", and we would say, "No, we hate you because you have so much, and waste it, or use your wealth to make other people feel bad. I would never want to be you."

I went back to college, remembering my friend David from El Salvador. We worked together in the cafeteria. Those who didn't need jobs laughed at those who had to work, and mocked them. I looked over at David, and realized he was crying. I asked him what was wrong. He said that in his country, people often have no food to eat at all, but here in the US, people have more than enough, and waste it, and I have to watch them waste all of that food that could have been eaten by my people!"

David isn't an emotional guy. He told me that in his country, that he always walked around with a basketball, because soldiers would shoot you if they suspected you of being a guerilla without a trial. He told me once that he was in high school, and a kid came in with a mask on, and pointed out the guerillas to the soldiers. The soldiers took the kids out, and shot them on the playground. They then told the informant to run away, and shot him in the head. One day, he was running at 6am, and saw his friend's severed head in the street, and decided it was time to become a guerilla and fight against his oppressing, murderous government. I asked about the US involvement, and he said that we were supplying arms to those soldiers.

My partner said that he spoke with his mother, who is fighting pancreatic cancer. She said that she stopped going to church. When questioned why, especially in this time of need, she said that any church that is unable to see her son as a child of God because he's gay doesn't serve God. She also said that he preaches that God wants us to be rich, that accumulating wealth makes God very happy, despite that Christ says that it strangles in the Parable of the Seeds, that he says not to build up your fortune on Earth, but store it in heaven, or the more clearly stated: It is more difficult for a rich man to enter the Kingdom than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle.

I spoke with a friend from Peru that said (around 2004 or so), I'm so sick of Americans talking about 9/11, and thinking the world revolves around them. There have been terrorist attacks in Peru about once a week, and we are ignored, but someone does it to them, and they want the whole world to watch, and care.

I thought of Gaza, and the Israelis thinking that God is on their side, so it doesn't matter how many they kill. Then, I looked at the US and Iraq. Oh, yes, we are the US, so God is on our side, too.

US Fires on Ambulance
http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2004-12/03/article01.shtml
200 Children Die Every Day from the deterioration of Health Care since the Occupation
http://www.counterpunch.org/hassan12012004.html
Red Cross Finds Detainees Intentionally Tortured in Guantanamo as Lawyers in Germany Charge Rumsfeld, Tenet With War Crimes in Iraq
http://www.democracynow.org/2004/11/30/red_cross_finds_detainees_intentionally_tortured

The number of civilians we have killed in Iraq: Almost 150,000 - not soldiers, civilians.

Imagine that. 150,000 Americans were killed over the last 8 years by an invading country, tortured people, resulted in deteriorated heath care making more people die...

Wouldn't you see them as the Devil???
U.S. Soldier: 'I Was Ordered to Murder Unarmed Iraqi'
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/63780/u.s._soldier:_'i_was_ordered_to_murder_unarmed_iraqi'/
Army Confirms G.I.'s in Korea Killed Civilians
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9507EED9163DF931A25752C0A9679C8B63

england_abuse_cp_5819865.jpg


We're the good guys.

Promised opportunities to work, some come as nannies. Should they be without papers, all the better for the wealthy, who will pay them less than minimum, and should they complain, threaten with the INS or jail.

Man Dies After Wal-Mart Stamp
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/28/national/main4637170.shtml
What's even more disturbing? They didn't stop shopping.

We think God looks down on us with favor. I mean, why else would we be so abundant? (For one reason, our economy was built on slavery.)
concise-600x471.png


It took me back to the bratty rich kids of my neighborhood, who saw sharing as others stealing from them, or offering trash as generosity, and smiling in church.

From Toronto, where gay marriage is legal, and passed pretty quickly, it is still debated and debated in the states, giving gay couples legal rights to live their lives.

In a lot of countries, including Canada, health care is considered a neccesity, not a luxury, or only for those who can afford it.

And yet, the US, with so much, argues that they shouldn't have universal health care. Why should I pay for my sick neighbor who can't afford it? I don't know - ask Jesus while you are at church and I'll bet he has an answer.

There is something seriously wrong with the US, and we need to identify it, and really look at the reasons why everyone hates the US. Like the bratty rich kid, it isn't because they're jealous, but because the US has a lot of power and can do whatever it wants, according to my Korean students, have killed or raped civilians, and there is nothing Korea can do about it, can exploit children to make your clothes, and not once care about it.

Ezekial 16:49

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy.
 

PantsMcFist

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My wife would completely agree with you (I do as well, but she has the cross-cultural experience, mine's theoretical). She grew up in post-Soviet Ukraine, living poor (poor means you eat meat in a meal once a month at best), in about a 200sq. ft apartment with her mother. She got involved in missions work as a translator, but quit in disgust when the missionaries turned out to be cultural imperialists as well.

I know she is guilty in everyday life, but tries to hide it, that she got to Canada and has the opportunities she has now, while her mother and many others are stuck at home without food or medicine. We send money back as we can, but for now we're students so there isn't much to spare (though, $100 pays for food for one person for half a year). One of the biggest problems is that the older generation in Ukraine was the one that sacrificed so much for the younger ones, and when the system collapsed they were left with nothing. Since then, most young people have bought into Western individualism and consumption, and the old are left by the wayside. We hope to set up a non-profit to help this generation, but in the meantime feel dirty and impotent to make a difference.
 
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Matthewj1985

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Well I personally feel bad for those people but I don't see how any of it is my fault so why should I be forced to give up my money? My heart is pretty hard on this issue because I work with people who abuse the system. 4th and 5th generations of single, unwed mothers on "public assistance" not worried about her 3rd child on the way because the "gubmint gonna pay fo it".

I donate to charity on a regular basis and I will actually be on national TV pretty soon for a charity project my company did. I understand that sometimes people need a hand up and I have no problems helping them out, just don't force me to at gun point.

I think a lot of it has to do with American's sense of "fair". We want everything to be as fair as possible. How is it fair that I run 5 miles a day and eat right but am forced to pay for YOUR chemo for lung cancer after your 30+ years of smoking? Or how about when you decide to have a few too many brews and go for a drive? Why should I foot the bill for your life flight?
 
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Wyzaard

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Well I personally feel bad for those people but I don't see how any of it is my fault so why should I be forced to give up my money?

You are an inheritor and current user of accumulated class-privileges based upon systemic inequalities and the exploitation of many generations of poor and/or minority peoples. So to be frank, it 's not exactly "your money"... it's the product of collective efforts that are unjustly distributed; you may work hard, but so do most... and they get far less than they fairly deserve.

My heart is pretty hard on this issue because I work with people who abuse the system. 4th and 5th generations of single, unwed mothers on "public assistance" not worried about her 3rd child on the way because the "gubmint gonna pay fo it".

I'm going to ignore this racist conservative cliche for now.

I think a lot of it has to do with American's sense of "fair". We want everything to be as fair as possible. How is it fair that I run 5 miles a day and eat right but am forced to pay for YOUR chemo for lung cancer after your 30+ years of smoking? Or how about when you decide to have a few too many brews and go for a drive? Why should I foot the bill for your life flight?

In this case, you bear a social responsibility towards those in need not only in treating the symptoms... but the causes as well. We as a society should abolish dangerous corporate practices that prey upon people's health.
 
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QuakerOats

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For the last few days, something has been really troubling me. It started with a debate about whether one should be forced to pay for others in need via taxes. There was some discussion about individuals having more control over where their taxes went, and certainly, there are a lot of wasted tax dollars. What bothered me is the general attitude: why should I care about someone else, all while claiming to be Christian.

I then went to see a movie, Slumdog Millionaire. A Slumdog is what children who live in the slums are called in Bombay. There are entire village living in what we would call a city dump. At one point in the movie, American Tourists ask a beggar boy, who they think works as a tour guide at the Taj Mahal, if he can give them a private tour, because they're special. The boy tries to say, "I'm not a tour guide (and a product of very underfunded education) when they say, "Oh, I'll make it worth your while", offering him $100.

As an orphan who is left to beg on the streets, he of course accepts, and makes everything up, such as why the prince wanted the princess to fall in love with him, so he built this Taj Majal hotel for her. In the meantime, they have stripped the American's car bare.

At one point, a policeman happens by, sees the child, and says, "You fraud! You don't work here!" pushes the child down, and kicks him in the face. The American couple say, "What is this about???" The boy cries, "You said you wanted to see the "Real India"??? Well, this is it!!!"

The woman says, well," then we are going to show you the Real America" and hands the boy some money.

The later show the Indians in a call center, where "Jenny", a fake name from an Indian whose English is coached to sound like the call is coming from inside the country, and not exported, like it often is.

I was bothered more by the broader message. How can adults use children as prostitutes, or remembering the mansions in mexico living next to the people living in the dump, a wall so that they don't even have to look at their poverty.

It's been weighing on me kind of hard, making it hard for me to sleep, so I spent some time in meditation today, and cried for about 2 hours. During that time, I went back to my childhood. My father worked for the gas company, had five kids, so understandably, we had hand me downs, but did ok. Down the street were some kids from rich parents. They often thought themselves better because they had more. They thought that God loved them more because he showered them with wealth. I remember one of the bratty kids asking me if I wanted one of their games that they were going to throw in the trash. It was Operation, and the nose didn't light anymore, and it didn't buzz. Someone took it, not knowing, and then brought it back, saying, "It's broken!!" She said, "So! You should be thankful!!" He answered, "For what????? Your trash? Thank you for giving me YOUR TRASH!!!" And she thought she was being generous, and that we should be thankful. She said, "You hate me because you're jealous", and we would say, "No, we hate you because you have so much, and waste it, or use your wealth to make other people feel bad. I would never want to be you."

I went back to college, remembering my friend David from El Salvador. We worked together in the cafeteria. Those who didn't need jobs laughed at those who had to work, and mocked them. I looked over at David, and realized he was crying. I asked him what was wrong. He said that in his country, people often have no food to eat at all, but here in the US, people have more than enough, and waste it, and I have to watch them waste all of that food that could have been eaten by my people!"

David isn't an emotional guy. He told me that in his country, that he always walked around with a basketball, because soldiers would shoot you if they suspected you of being a guerilla without a trial. He told me once that he was in high school, and a kid came in with a mask on, and pointed out the guerillas to the soldiers. The soldiers took the kids out, and shot them on the playground. They then told the informant to run away, and shot him in the head. One day, he was running at 6am, and saw his friend's severed head in the street, and decided it was time to become a guerilla and fight against his oppressing, murderous government. I asked about the US involvement, and he said that we were supplying arms to those soldiers.

My partner said that he spoke with his mother, who is fighting pancreatic cancer. She said that she stopped going to church. When questioned why, especially in this time of need, she said that any church that is unable to see her son as a child of God because he's gay doesn't serve God. She also said that he preaches that God wants us to be rich, that accumulating wealth makes God very happy, despite that Christ says that it strangles in the Parable of the Seeds, that he says not to build up your fortune on Earth, but store it in heaven, or the more clearly stated: It is more difficult for a rich man to enter the Kingdom than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle.

I spoke with a friend from Peru that said (around 2004 or so), I'm so sick of Americans talking about 9/11, and thinking the world revolves around them. There have been terrorist attacks in Peru about once a week, and we are ignored, but someone does it to them, and they want the whole world to watch, and care.

I thought of Gaza, and the Israelis thinking that God is on their side, so it doesn't matter how many they kill. Then, I looked at the US and Iraq. Oh, yes, we are the US, so God is on our side, too.

US Fires on Ambulance
http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2004-12/03/article01.shtml
200 Children Die Every Day from the deterioration of Health Care since the Occupation
http://www.counterpunch.org/hassan12012004.html
Red Cross Finds Detainees Intentionally Tortured in Guantanamo as Lawyers in Germany Charge Rumsfeld, Tenet With War Crimes in Iraq
http://www.democracynow.org/2004/11/30/red_cross_finds_detainees_intentionally_tortured

The number of civilians we have killed in Iraq: Almost 150,000 - not soldiers, civilians.

Imagine that. 150,000 Americans were killed over the last 8 years by an invading country, tortured people, resulted in deteriorated heath care making more people die...

Wouldn't you see them as the Devil???
U.S. Soldier: 'I Was Ordered to Murder Unarmed Iraqi'
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/63780/u.s._soldier:_'i_was_ordered_to_murder_unarmed_iraqi'/
Army Confirms G.I.'s in Korea Killed Civilians
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9507EED9163DF931A25752C0A9679C8B63

england_abuse_cp_5819865.jpg


We're the good guys.

Promised opportunities to work, some come as nannies. Should they be without papers, all the better for the wealthy, who will pay them less than minimum, and should they complain, threaten with the INS or jail.

Man Dies After Wal-Mart Stamp
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/28/national/main4637170.shtml
What's even more disturbing? They didn't stop shopping.

We think God looks down on us with favor. I mean, why else would we be so abundant? (For one reason, our economy was built on slavery.)
concise-600x471.png


It took me back to the bratty rich kids of my neighborhood, who saw sharing as others stealing from them, or offering trash as generosity, and smiling in church.

From Toronto, where gay marriage is legal, and passed pretty quickly, it is still debated and debated in the states, giving gay couples legal rights to live their lives.

In a lot of countries, including Canada, health care is considered a neccesity, not a luxury, or only for those who can afford it.

And yet, the US, with so much, argues that they shouldn't have universal health care. Why should I pay for my sick neighbor who can't afford it? I don't know - ask Jesus while you are at church and I'll bet he has an answer.

There is something seriously wrong with the US, and we need to identify it, and really look at the reasons why everyone hates the US. Like the bratty rich kid, it isn't because they're jealous, but because the US has a lot of power and can do whatever it wants, according to my Korean students, have killed or raped civilians, and there is nothing Korea can do about it, can exploit children to make your clothes, and not once care about it.

Ezekial 16:49

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy.
I wholeheartedly concur. We take advantage of the fact that we have so much at our disposal. It's truly sickening.
 
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lawtonfogle

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For a easy pointing of two of the main problems, one just needs to look at two of the most dominant factors in America, the American Dream and Capitalism. One is false, but is used to enforce racism (though having done a study of it, I have determined that little racism exist current day that isn't a result of a much bigger problem, socio-economic status (or lack there of). The other works off of greed, though at least it works. Most other systems fail because of greed. A final issue is one I have only recently begun contemplating, that is punishment as a motivation for good, something inherent not just in our law, but our socialization and even the Christian religion (even if not directly).

For the last few days, something has been really troubling me. It started with a debate about whether one should be forced to pay for others in need via taxes. There was some discussion about individuals having more control over where their taxes went, and certainly, there are a lot of wasted tax dollars. What bothered me is the general attitude: why should I care about someone else, all while claiming to be Christian.
Maybe we should ask this question, maybe everyone should answer it.

Because Christ said so? Well, why does that matter?

Because you love Christ? Well, that isn't all that bad an answer, but how many do it for selfish reasons such as treasures in heaven, or to be socially looked upon as the better? And then you still have the issue that in the end, someone you loved had to tell you to do it.

But what other reasons are there? Because seeing pain hurts? Because you want to end that pain inside of yourself? But isn't that selfish?

I have thought on this issue, and in the end, it does seem selfish. It is an I want mentality. I want to feed the hungry. I want to free the enslaved. But while this may be selfish, it requires a much more noble sense of wants than doing good because you want the rewards it gives, or because you want to please another, though in fact wanting rewards it gives, in this life or some next, is by far the worse of the three.
I then went to see a movie, Slumdog Millionaire. A Slumdog is what children who live in the slums are called in Bombay. There are entire village living in what we would call a city dump. At one point in the movie, American Tourists ask a beggar boy, who they think works as a tour guide at the Taj Mahal, if he can give them a private tour, because they're special. The boy tries to say, "I'm not a tour guide (and a product of very underfunded education) when they say, "Oh, I'll make it worth your while", offering him $100.

As an orphan who is left to beg on the streets, he of course accepts, and makes everything up, such as why the prince wanted the princess to fall in love with him, so he built this Taj Majal hotel for her. In the meantime, they have stripped the American's car bare.

At one point, a policeman happens by, sees the child, and says, "You fraud! You don't work here!" pushes the child down, and kicks him in the face. The American couple say, "What is this about???" The boy cries, "You said you wanted to see the "Real India"??? Well, this is it!!!"

The woman says, well," then we are going to show you the Real America" and hands the boy some money.

The later show the Indians in a call center, where "Jenny", a fake name from an Indian whose English is coached to sound like the call is coming from inside the country, and not exported, like it often is.

I was bothered more by the broader message. How can adults use children as prostitutes, or remembering the mansions in mexico living next to the people living in the dump, a wall so that they don't even have to look at their poverty.
I really don't know. This is one of the reason I have decided to learn psychology, for some chance of understanding why.
It's been weighing on me kind of hard, making it hard for me to sleep, so I spent some time in meditation today, and cried for about 2 hours. During that time, I went back to my childhood. My father worked for the gas company, had five kids, so understandably, we had hand me downs, but did ok. Down the street were some kids from rich parents. They often thought themselves better because they had more. They thought that God loved them more because he showered them with wealth. I remember one of the bratty kids asking me if I wanted one of their games that they were going to throw in the trash. It was Operation, and the nose didn't light anymore, and it didn't buzz. Someone took it, not knowing, and then brought it back, saying, "It's broken!!" She said, "So! You should be thankful!!" He answered, "For what????? Your trash? Thank you for giving me YOUR TRASH!!!" And she thought she was being generous, and that we should be thankful. She said, "You hate me because you're jealous", and we would say, "No, we hate you because you have so much, and waste it, or use your wealth to make other people feel bad. I would never want to be you."

I went back to college, remembering my friend David from El Salvador. We worked together in the cafeteria. Those who didn't need jobs laughed at those who had to work, and mocked them. I looked over at David, and realized he was crying. I asked him what was wrong. He said that in his country, people often have no food to eat at all, but here in the US, people have more than enough, and waste it, and I have to watch them waste all of that food that could have been eaten by my people!"
I have personally thought the same, though I personally no none whom hunger. I think about this, or try to, every time I turn in a tray to the cafeteria, every time I see the food left over from the serving lines which will just be thrown away. So many people think they know hunger because they have missed a meal, maybe two, but they don't. Even after I missed 3 days of food, I realize I still don't know hunger, because my body still had a source of nutrition I had built up by having a comfortable live. To live where your very being is hungry, where it isn't just a want, where you must have something or you will die soon, is beyond what I have ever known.

I very well realize a dept and a need I have to help others. Yet I understand rushing out there will not be the best way to go about it, and I almost daily falter in working to stop those things. Yet currently there is very little I can do to help in the short time, except to solidify my resolve for when the time finally comes.
 
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lawtonfogle

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Well I personally feel bad for those people but I don't see how any of it is my fault so why should I be forced to give up my money? My heart is pretty hard on this issue because I work with people who abuse the system. 4th and 5th generations of single, unwed mothers on "public assistance" not worried about her 3rd child on the way because the "gubmint gonna pay fo it".
Is she really not worried? From some studying I did, most of the welfare queens are a myth. Many abuse the system, but they do so because they work jobs 'off the books' and use the money combined to help with the family.

Maybe they should stop having kids, but I think this is a result of the socialization of being raised by such parents will cause. I have a good friend who came from such a setting, yet he, for some reason, has a much better mentality about the whole issue. We need to help the children and break the cycle.
I donate to charity on a regular basis and I will actually be on national TV pretty soon for a charity project my company did. I understand that sometimes people need a hand up and I have no problems helping them out, just don't force me to at gun point.
No one, that I know of, is trying to force you at gun point. Often times, by the time the hand is given, damage has been done which cannot be fixed.
I think a lot of it has to do with American's sense of "fair". We want everything to be as fair as possible. How is it fair that I run 5 miles a day and eat right but am forced to pay for YOUR chemo for lung cancer after your 30+ years of smoking? Or how about when you decide to have a few too many brews and go for a drive? Why should I foot the bill for your life flight?

Is it fair that they started, and were raised by a family where the importance of education was never instilled, and thus they never achieved one? Is it fair they were raised in a community where to be with there friends, they had to smoke, and became addicted. That they had to drink? I personally have the benefit of being apart of enough sub groups I can easily distance myself from any that push for social drinking. But others will have to give up some of the only friends they have. Is this fair?

People will do stupid things, but taking care of those who do stupid things isn't the issue here, it is taking care of those who never had a chance to screw up but are as bad off as those who did that is.
 
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Robbie_James_Francis

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Well I personally feel bad for those people but I don't see how any of it is my fault so why should I be forced to give up my money?

Because you only got hold of "your" money because of your State education, being able to get to work by driving on roads paved by tax dollars, drinking clean water because of State legislation and myriad other things that have been done for you by society. In fact, you are only alive because the State has invested so much in maternity care that, unlike millions in the developing world, you didn't die in birth.

You "own" nothing that you don't owe to other people. It is not tax that is stealing, you are stealing just by having more than the bare minimum for survival.
 
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