Seeing in the Spirit?

tturt said:

Seers are mentioned over 20 times in Scripture and they exist today. They SEE things in the supernatural and what they are seeing and experiencing is from Yahweh. We do have to guard ourselves (I"M saying it again). But we do not have to be so afraid of the counterfeit that we disregard The Real Thing - which is the purpose of this thread to learn about seeing in the Spirit.

BeccaCheria, besides flashes of light or dreams or visions, another thing that might happen to you is seeing glory clouds or that's the term I hear most often. Sometimes before and during congregational meetings is when it happens that I've heard of but know that Yahweh can whatever He wants. I know singing to Yahweh is important but it's when we're able to get our minds off ourselves and others and deliberately focus on Him. I had typed this before I located the Scripture - You can be encouraged that everyone saw the cloud = Exo 33:10 "And all the people saw the cloudy pillar stand at the tabernacle door: and all the people rose up and worshipped, every man in his tent door."

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Most of the reference to"seers" are found in the Old Testament. This was Old Covenant. This was when God spoke through His holy prophets. But Hebrews tells us that in these last days, He speaks through His Son, and the Son speaks through the Holy Spirit who is resident in us.

If a person is depending on "seers" and prophets to get the Word of God is still in the Old Covenant. Genuine, born again, new creatures in Christ hear the voice of Christ speaking through the Holy Spirit within them, and what is being said to them is totally consistent with the principles of the New Covenant. If a person is still in the Old Covenant, he is not born again. He might have the Christian religion, and he may be barely saved because he has accepted Christ, but if he is still living in the Old Covenant, made up of sensory experiences, human prophets, seeking a God who is separate from him, thinking that the Holy Spirit is some type of indeterminate mist that comes down on people, then he has not entered into the born again spiritual life.

Read the book of Hebrews about what the New Covenant is all about.

Oscarr you have your perspectives of Scripture and I have mine. And I might be back to post on this thread later. Oscarr, there's nothing in me that causes me to belittle you. I hope you have a very blessed day!

Seeing in the Spirit is an interesting thing. Here's the deal, it has a lot to with with your imagination. Not imagination in the sense that you are making things up, but in the sense that things you see in the spirit are seen basically the same way. For example, when you were a kid and you would play a game, you would imagine that it was there, and so in your mind, even though nothing was there, you could "see" it like there was this thin film superimposed over the world. Seeing in the Spirit is the same, except that you don't make things up, you just see them happening.

For example, you may be sitting there, and you see an angel. Not physically, but you see it "superimposed" in your reality. That is where faith comes in. Most people really struggle with whether it is just their imagination. Well, at first it is probably going to be a mix until you learn to distinguish your imagination from the spiritual, so I don't recommend going around declaring things as words of God until you are sure.

Here is a tip to be able to distinguish the two. If something just pops up, whether it is something "superimposed" or a thought, or a picture, whatever, and you weren't thinking anything like that, most of the time that is God speaking to you. Unless of course it doesn't line up with Scripture, then it is probably the enemy or your flesh. God often speaks that way though, just this light image that you can easily brush off if you aren't paying attention.

Sometimes things appear physically as well, angels or other things. That is obviously a lot easier to tell because it is a physical thing, but when people refer to seeing in the spirit it is what I just explained.

Brothers and sisters listen and consider this for one minute. Detach yourself from this world and it's creeds for just one moment and ponder how GREAT God is and how willing He is to Bless us in ways you may not understand! Why place limits on God? Why discredit or cheapen the claims of brothers and sisters in Christ who are doing exactly what the scriptures say, walking in the spirit! Consider it may be you who is actually at odds with God in this debate!

Peace!

tturt said:

Oscarr you have your perspectives of Scripture and I have mine. And I might be back to post on this thread later. Oscarr, there's nothing in me that causes me to belittle you. I hope you have a very blessed day!

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All I am doing is paying attention to what the Scripture actually says.

When Jesus promised the Holy Spirit in John 14, He said that the Spirit would lead us into all truth and to remind us of what He taught. He did not say that the Spirit would lead us into doing things.

In Romans 8, where it says that those who are led by the Spirit are the sons of God, the context has nothing to do with particular actions. If you read the verses from the start of chapter 8, you will see that it is all about the law of the spirit of life setting us free from the law of sin and death. it starts with that there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ [who do not walk after the flesh but after the Spirit]. I put the last part of that quote in brackets because it is missing from the earliest sources, but it was added later by a copyist who was trying to make the verse consistent with the current theology of the time.

Anyhow, walking after the flesh in the New Testament is trying to establish our own righteousness through keeping the Law, and approaching things through the world's point of view.

You will find no mention at all of the Spirit leading New Covenant people in what they do. It is assumed that if a person is in Christ, they have a renewed mind (the mind of Christ), and so they don't have to be led by the nose to do things for God.

When Paul was prevented from going into Asia, it was a redirection for a particular purpose, so that he could be redirected into Macedonia. Paul used his own judgment about where he wanted to go to preach the Gospel, and it took a couple of attempts of the Spriit to redirect him. But most other times, Paul was the one who purposed where he was going to go.

There is no mention of him being led of the Spirit to go to Athens, Corinth or Ephesus, or anywhere else. The vision about Macedonia was to alert him to people who required assistance but there is no mention that the Spirit told him to go there. Paul decided of his own volition to go in response to the vision.

If people are depending on some type of voice to lead them everywhere, it shows that they either are still in the Old Covenant and still need to be born again, or they are mere babes in Christ. It is through experience and maturity that a Christian is able to discern between what is right or wrong for him.

I am not putting anyone down for what they believe. All I am doing is showing you what the Bible actually teaches, rather than supporting Pentecostal or Charismatic doctrines that have been built up over the years.

Notice that many churches maintain that only the pastors and senior pastors have that special "leading of the Spirit" to dictate to the rest of "the herd" about what God is saying?

What will you do if you feel that you are being led of the Spirit one way, and your senior pastor contradicts it? I have had several experience of that during my time in a Charismatic church and later on, as I have matured, I have realised that I would have been right to follow my own judgment, and that pastor was exercising nothing but power and control over me.

I have learned through experience that God is not worried about any decision I make to do something or go somewhere, as long as what I do is consistent with the principles of the New Covenant as taught in the New Testament.

it would be good to do a bit of research to see how many false cults and false doctrines came about because someone felt "led of the Spirit"? It might be an eye opener.

Most of the New Testament is clearly written and can be understood without having to look for some "deeper meaning". The reason why many look for a different interpretation other than what is clearly written is that they are unable to take the direct written Word of God that might challenge their defective beliefs and actions.

I am not saying that you are doing that, but I urge you to take another look at the Scriptures on which you are depending to support your belief about being led of the Spirit. Read the 10 verses before and after the verse, and see what the actual context is. You might be surprised.

it is just that I am learning that many "sacred cows" of the Pentecostal and Charismatic churches do not line up with Scripture, but a mainly traditions that men have dreamed up through taking isolated verses out of their contexts and making them to mean something different to what is actually being taught in Scripture.

For example: 85% of the healing ministry in these churches doesn't work because of a basic misunderstanding of Scripture and of the New Covenant. I have mentioned this in other threads.

I know you mean well.

BeccaCheria, you can also learn to hear more in the supernatural, too. Here's an url that has angels singing. It enabled me to learn (I hope it's ok to post url)
Angels in Kansas church

Now when we're worshiping and begin to sing unto Him at church, sometimes I can hear them. You can too. Matt 1:20 is an example of angels speaking so I can conclude from that angels sing. I sent the url previously to a fellow believer who doesnt believe in the supernatural and the only response was "interesting." But you can decide for yourself. It always blesses me. It's not a good recording but you can adjust the volume when it's downloaded. Someone posted these as the possible lyrics:
Halleluyah(s), breathe it (or ringing) all across the land
Everybody's singing at the Lord's command
All the saints and the angels up in glory wait to hear the news
of Jesus and his children that (or as) they're coming soon (through).

Halleluyah, halleluyah, etc.

Isa 6 is one Biblical example of all the senses being used for spiritual purposes:

1-In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the LORD sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. 2Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. 3And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. 4And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke (smell). 5Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts. 6Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: 7And he laid it upon my mouth (taste), and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged. 8Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me. 9And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. 10Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. 11Then said I,Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate, 12And the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land."

Hebrews 5:14
"But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."

you will see where we al end up. it is the best of the best of the best. until then try to ignore, don't worry about it, don't get distracted. the people in your life are more important.
i see in the spirit......one day we will all be in eternal heaven, we won't have to worry about probs like this anymore.

BeccaCheria said:

How many of you can actually see in the spiritual realm? If so was it something that you asked/prayed for or did it just happen? I have been asking God to open my spiritual eyes and ears so that I may "see" for months...I know that it IS for all believers that believe so I eventually will be able to "see" because:

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For everyone that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened." -Matthew 7:7-8

"Seeing" is one of the desires of my heart, I have been preparing for it for months. A friend of mine who can "see" says that she just asked God for the ability, and was able to from then on.

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Oscarr said:

All I am doing is paying attention to what the Scripture actually says.

When Jesus promised the Holy Spirit in John 14, He said that the Spirit would lead us into all truth and to remind us of what He taught. He did not say that the Spirit would lead us into doing things.

In Romans 8, where it says that those who are led by the Spirit are the sons of God, the context has nothing to do with particular actions. If you read the verses from the start of chapter 8, you will see that it is all about the law of the spirit of life setting us free from the law of sin and death. it starts with that there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ [who do not walk after the flesh but after the Spirit]. I put the last part of that quote in brackets because it is missing from the earliest sources, but it was added later by a copyist who was trying to make the verse consistent with the current theology of the time.

Anyhow, walking after the flesh in the New Testament is trying to establish our own righteousness through keeping the Law, and approaching things through the world's point of view.

You will find no mention at all of the Spirit leading New Covenant people in what they do. It is assumed that if a person is in Christ, they have a renewed mind (the mind of Christ), and so they don't have to be led by the nose to do things for God.

When Paul was prevented from going into Asia, it was a redirection for a particular purpose, so that he could be redirected into Macedonia. Paul used his own judgment about where he wanted to go to preach the Gospel, and it took a couple of attempts of the Spriit to redirect him. But most other times, Paul was the one who purposed where he was going to go.

There is no mention of him being led of the Spirit to go to Athens, Corinth or Ephesus, or anywhere else. The vision about Macedonia was to alert him to people who required assistance but there is no mention that the Spirit told him to go there. Paul decided of his own volition to go in response to the vision.

If people are depending on some type of voice to lead them everywhere, it shows that they either are still in the Old Covenant and still need to be born again, or they are mere babes in Christ. It is through experience and maturity that a Christian is able to discern between what is right or wrong for him.

I am not putting anyone down for what they believe. All I am doing is showing you what the Bible actually teaches, rather than supporting Pentecostal or Charismatic doctrines that have been built up over the years.

Notice that many churches maintain that only the pastors and senior pastors have that special "leading of the Spirit" to dictate to the rest of "the herd" about what God is saying?

What will you do if you feel that you are being led of the Spirit one way, and your senior pastor contradicts it? I have had several experience of that during my time in a Charismatic church and later on, as I have matured, I have realised that I would have been right to follow my own judgment, and that pastor was exercising nothing but power and control over me.

I have learned through experience that God is not worried about any decision I make to do something or go somewhere, as long as what I do is consistent with the principles of the New Covenant as taught in the New Testament.

it would be good to do a bit of research to see how many false cults and false doctrines came about because someone felt "led of the Spirit"? It might be an eye opener.

Most of the New Testament is clearly written and can be understood without having to look for some "deeper meaning". The reason why many look for a different interpretation other than what is clearly written is that they are unable to take the direct written Word of God that might challenge their defective beliefs and actions.

I am not saying that you are doing that, but I urge you to take another look at the Scriptures on which you are depending to support your belief about being led of the Spirit. Read the 10 verses before and after the verse, and see what the actual context is. You might be surprised.

it is just that I am learning that many "sacred cows" of the Pentecostal and Charismatic churches do not line up with Scripture, but a mainly traditions that men have dreamed up through taking isolated verses out of their contexts and making them to mean something different to what is actually being taught in Scripture.

For example: 85% of the healing ministry in these churches doesn't work because of a basic misunderstanding of Scripture and of the New Covenant. I have mentioned this in other threads.

Click to expand...

In my experience, a "seer" or a prophet today is more directed towards a single person, or two, or maybe a small group. It is special revelation for them alone. God has given me this gift on occasion, and my words were spot on, sometimes in complete stranger's lives. In our prayer group, I have seen an absent person in a dangerous situation, and prayed that person to safety. Later in the week, what I saw was validated by the person I'd seen.

How can that not be the work of a seer? I'm not a seer at all unless God gives me something to see. But if that's what he wants me to do, I make myself available to Him.

The Holy Spirit guides us [FONT=&quot] Rom 8:14[/FONT] is one example. We need to know Scripture to be sure that what we're hearing lines up with His Word. What about those times when you're told to do or not do something - that's not in His Word. For myself, I need to get a lot better at hearing His voice because He speaks in so many ways as shown in Scripture.
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Yes, there are still Godly seers. One Scripture from the NT is Acts 2:17 "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams"

Not all prophets are "seers" but all "seers" are prophets - Jim Goll. We're all a work in progress. Paul didn't start prophesing right after his Damascus Road experience but Yahweh used a vision as part of His communication with Paul during that time plus He gave Ananias a vision about Paul. Acts 9 "And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord. 11And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, 12And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight. "

In all Godly spiritual gifts, He is The Source and we need to be lead by Him because they're for His purposes. While on earth, John 5 "Then Jesus answered them and said, "Truly, truly, I say to you; the Son can do nothing of himself, but only does what he sees the Father do. For whatever things he [the Father] does, these are also likewise done by the Son."

The more we're lead by Him, the more we're meeting His purposes.