Secularist here. Need philosophical guidance/word of wisdom when it comes to Jealous and Envy

Patsy_Cline_Fan · Nov 5, 2024

It's cliche, but at the same time, not so much.

This is going to come off as silly, but I just ran into an instance where someone got what I dream of by sheer luck, whereas I couldn't achieve the same goal after nearly a decade of trying.

Basically I'm trying to find a partner that meets certain specific set of standards. No not high standards, but specific. I have been working on it, the progress has so far been slow, with a few moments when I thought I was almost there, only to for it to turn out to be a huge disappointment (the girl got cold feet and said it wasn't going to work out, for example)

Then the other day I bump into this instance where this guy landed someone really attractive that met like 85+% of my standards, and he's poor, he doesn't have a professional career, he's oblivious about how luck he is, basically all around he doesn't come close to me, however obnoxious a statement this may sound.

The reason he was able to marry that girl was because of a series of random events. Now I'm reasonable, I understand that from a statistical standpoint, when you have millions upon millions of people, these "lottery winners" are destined to appear. So I understand I have a major confirmation bias here. To be perfectly fair, in 99.99% of the cases guys like that would have failed.

But still, the thought of how I worked really hard to become a better person, and girls just turn around and away, while some random bloke got what I dreamed of by sleepwalking in life to me is frustrating beyond words.

I'm quite psychologically strong, so this doesn't exactly trigger some sort of depression in me. But still things like this drive me nuts.

What do you guys think? What does Christianity teach about scenarios like this? Don't be shy from quoting biblical verses.

mikeforjesus · Nov 5, 2024

I think it is not good that you are suffering from such but if you want to marry a christian you need to be christian as the bible says we are not to be unequally yoked that there is no communion between believer and unbeliever just as there is no union between light and darkness
as bible teaches jesus is light of the world we need. It is not fair otherwise that they choose others than you but also not only rich people deserve a spouse or those who have it all together that struggle and one should not be jealous that anyone who proposes should be accepted but it should be accepted also for one like you who made effort to be better to get one that they should have desired more if people were more just. I just wanted to share my comments but not discuss too much as I am not someone too wise to speak about such things.

Fervent · Nov 5, 2024

Are you looking for a person to have a relationship with, or a trophy? The issue may very well be your attitude of objectifying women as things to be won rather than seeing them as human beings with their own preferences and interests.

PloverWing · Nov 5, 2024

Different people have different ideas of what's attractive in a partner. The guy that you mention didn't meet your standards, so he would be a bad partner for you, but apparently he was a good fit for what the woman was looking for. Maybe the two of them have a lot of shared interests, or maybe he's kind, or good with kids, or any number of things she might have been looking for.

Finding a good partner isn't like winning a prize for working hard (although it's good that you've worked to improve yourself). It's more a matter of finding someone who shares your interests and has compatible personality traits.

Unqualified · Nov 5, 2024

I didn’t get married until I was 53 and walking with the Lord. And when I decided to obey Him He had the write one for me. She is a real trophy spiritually. ‘Wait on the Lord’.

You might think you have a lot to give because you are young handsome and with a lot of mullah. But do you know how to love for the 50 year marriage. Jesus through Paul tells os this. Love your wife more than your own flesh: desires, belongings, What you think. Love your wife as Christ loves the church, both in Ephesians. Constantly forgiving, leading guiding her to perfection in love and patience. That’s what makes a marriage.

Those kind of women and men are few and far between. But it’s a learning experience. Or are you in it for the thrills. No offense but marriage is for life.

Unqualified · Nov 5, 2024

Jealousy is a work of the flesh found in Galatians 5. Probably won’t go to heaven if dwelled on. But we need to repent of such works and ask God to take away and He will. it’s the same as covetousness the last commandment. The only thing separating us from a lifestyle of sin is repentance. Sorrow from the heart and rejection our sin. Giving it over to God. He bore it on the cross and accepting a new life He has for us with the Holy Spirit and from the Bible.

Patsy_Cline_Fan · Nov 5, 2024

mikeforjesus said:
I think it is not good that you are suffering from such but if you want to marry a christian you need to be christian as the bible says we are not to be unequally yoked that there is no communion between believer and unbeliever just as there is no union between light and darkness
as bible teaches jesus is light of the world we need. It is not fair otherwise that they choose others than you but also not only rich people deserve a spouse or those who have it all together that struggle and one should not be jealous that anyone who proposes should be accepted but it should be accepted also for one like you who made effort to be better to get one that they should have desired more if people were more just. I just wanted to share my comments but not discuss too much as I am not someone too wise to speak about such things.

Thank you for replying! Funny you should bring up the Christian aspect of it, that guy isn't religious, but the girl is, but not the super-devout kind, nevertheless the girl is from the bible belt, which is one more thing that frustrates me.

As for desires, I actually am fairly certain he desired less than me, much less, as he wasn't even aware until last minute what opportunities he had, and he promptly took it. And till this day that guy does not appreciate it to a justifiable degree, because he was oblivious of the qualities the girl has.

Patsy_Cline_Fan · Nov 5, 2024

Fervent said:
Are you looking for a person to have a relationship with, or a trophy? The issue may very well be your attitude of objectifying women as things to be won rather than seeing them as human beings with their own preferences and interests.

Not a trophy. But I do have aesthetic standards. I think I can settle if a girl is a 6 in my book. That guy landed someone that is at least 7, and he's actually treating her like a trophy, basically parading her around family friends and even on the internet.

The girl is the really easy going kind with a great, affluent upbringing. From Nashville. Upper middle class. She doesn't care. In fact she kinda enjoy it.

Of course it further frustrates me.

My life has been one uphill battle after another and I've gotten used to it. I'm fairly tough. But my life keeps throwing curve balls like this at me at it's getting tiresome.

I think I would be better off a moron like that oblivious guy, the girls would see a simple man and I would be more desirable. But I'm the intelligent and use-your-head kind, and this drives up girls' expectations for me considerably, which kinda isn't fair, and it comes off as intimidating to a lot of women.

The overwhelming majority of the women want a simple man that can lead a simple life and take care and support them, not a rocket scientist. This is one of the less expected cross that I totally wasn't anticipating to bear one day. Most women find smart guys off-putting, street and hustler-ish, and don't feel secure around them.

Ayekrumba.

Patsy_Cline_Fan · Nov 5, 2024

PloverWing said:
Different people have different ideas of what's attractive in a partner. The guy that you mention didn't meet your standards, so he would be a bad partner for you, but apparently he was a good fit for what the woman was looking for. Maybe the two of them have a lot of shared interests, or maybe he's kind, or good with kids, or any number of things she might have been looking for.

Finding a good partner isn't like winning a prize for working hard (although it's good that you've worked to improve yourself). It's more a matter of finding someone who shares your interests and has compatible personality traits.

Hey thank you for replying.

Yea they do have similar interests alright. And it's kind of silly interests from my perspective but I am smart enough to know it's entirely subjective. Ultimately the girl decided he was a good fit so obviously nobody other than her can have a say in it, other than since it's the deep south, the girls' parents have some say in it and the guy managed to pass that check.

I totally agree with you on winning a prize part, but why must that girl be a total babe. I understand this is petty and obnoxious but had that girl been a mid, I wouldn't mind it as much.

And the building yourself up and worked to improve yourself part - I wish to be a cautionary tale: everything is a trade-off, everything has a flip side. My idea was that one day I'll be super successful, have an impressive career, fit and somewhat ripped, and I'll go for small town diner waitress kind and I'll have an impressive accuracy.

Well guess what, it doesn't work like that. When you reached that stage, you start to attract other equally impressive individuals, like business owners, managers, phds and in rare cases NASA employees and doctors.

And those women also worked very hard on their future so they have INSANELY high standards. And they give you no room for error. Oh and they tend to not be the really good looking kind but instead the well-educated types. "So what about waitresses?" Right. If you approach them, alarms immediately go off in their heads and they put on extra layers of scrutiny because they wanna know what's your angle, why someone like you would wanna hitch up someone like them.

In a really ironic way I kinda asked for it. Had I just dived head first into the dating market without thinking, I'd probably be having 3 kids by now. Or things could have gone very wrong because I was young and stupid. I don't have time machine so I don't know.

Patsy_Cline_Fan · Nov 5, 2024

Unqualified said:
I didn’t get married until I was 53 and walking with the Lord. And when I decided to obey Him He had the write one for me. She is a real trophy spiritually. ‘Wait on the Lord’.

You might think you have a lot to give because you are young handsome and with a lot of mullah. But do you know how to love for the 50 year marriage. Jesus through Paul tells os this. Love your wife more than your own flesh: desires, belongings, What you think. Love your wife as Christ loves the church, both in Ephesians. Constantly forgiving, leading guiding her to perfection in love and patience. That’s what makes a marriage.

Those kind of women and men are few and far between. But it’s a learning experience. Or are you in it for the thrills. No offense but marriage is for life.

Thanks for the kind words. Non offense taken! I'm not in for the thrills. Just someone with certain characteristics, sassy and a notable character for example, on top of that, with passable looks. I think I'm fairly practical.

My main frustration is that someone getting what I want with sheer luck and I couldn't get even with great efforts. "Life isn't fair" is a pill very difficult to swallow.

Richard T · Nov 5, 2024

Patsy_Cline_Fan said:
It's cliche, but at the same time, not so much.

This is going to come off as silly, but I just ran into an instance where someone got what I dream of by sheer luck, whereas I couldn't achieve the same goal after nearly a decade of trying.

Basically I'm trying to find a partner that meets certain specific set of standards. No not high standards, but specific. I have been working on it, the progress has so far been slow, with a few moments when I thought I was almost there, only to for it to turn out to be a huge disappointment (the girl got cold feet and said it wasn't going to work out, for example)

Then the other day I bump into this instance where this guy landed someone really attractive that met like 85+% of my standards, and he's poor, he doesn't have a professional career, he's oblivious about how luck he is, basically all around he doesn't come close to me, however obnoxious a statement this may sound.

The reason he was able to marry that girl was because of a series of random events. Now I'm reasonable, I understand that from a statistical standpoint, when you have millions upon millions of people, these "lottery winners" are destined to appear. So I understand I have a major confirmation bias here. To be perfectly fair, in 99.99% of the cases guys like that would have failed.

But still, the thought of how I worked really hard to become a better person, and girls just turn around and away, while some random bloke got what I dreamed of by sleepwalking in life to me is frustrating beyond words.

I'm quite psychologically strong, so this doesn't exactly trigger some sort of depression in me. But still things like this drive me nuts.

What do you guys think? What does Christianity teach about scenarios like this? Don't be shy from quoting biblical verses.

Your dilemma is felt by nearly everyone. Some call finding a wife, or job "common grace." That God will do things for people that are unbelievers at times. Another biblical approach is the "favor" of God. Favor as applied to Daniel and others in the bible, is when God looks down on a individual and extends to them something special. (Dan. 1:9). Some of this favor is conditional or based on our own behavior or attitude. Prov 3:34 for instance says he gives favor to the humble.
Interestingly, "He who finds a wife finds favor from the Lord" (Prov18:22). But here the favor here, comes after finding the wife, not before.

So how can you achieve things through God? It is by faith. I tis often told that God will pass over a thousand people to get to one person of faith. Here is an article (Click the Pdf) that will help you believe for a mate. On the Matter of a Mate - Rhema

In my own life, I wandered for years, desiring a wife but really going nowhere. Finally I got serious with God and said I would accept his plan for marriage. After prayer and even fasting, I got God's plan which has me going to the Philippines, which is amazing for finding a mate. Of course many Americans Christian and non-Christian do this, but it was never on my mind for such a thing until I let God get involved. So my advice is to get before God, learn his will and desires for what a husband is supposed to do and proceed from there. For instance, you can ask for certain physical things but are you forgetting that what you should be wanting is a woman where you can give a lot to her? It is that kind of unselfishness that will move God on your behalf. It does not have to be Asia or out of the country, it just is that you have to be humble and seek God, trusting him for this breakthrough in life.

There is a story of Jesus and a man at the pool of Bethesda (John 5:2) Apparently these pools were known for an angel stirring the waters and the first person who got in was healed. This man was paralyzed so he could never get in first to be healed. So Jesus came by and asked him if he wanted to be healed? The man replied yes and Jesus healed him. So while some do hit the lottery, in a sense for healing or in your case a wife. Others achieve the same thing more directly from God. Lottery relationships are really not as special. What God wants with you is something far greater and fulfilling. He asks do you want his plan for the best wife and family as possible? I'd say yes, and Godspeed to you on your way. Let Jesus help you by giving you the faith and ability to love and be loved by not only your wife but by God. If you are willing to do that God will bring an amazing wife.

Naysayers will be skeptical of this bold claim. But there are dozens of scriptures i could quote to you about God giving you the desires of your heart. Of God giving you favor, Of God saying "man should not be alone." That "two are better than one." that if you ask believing you have received, it shall be done for you. That it is better to marry than to burn with passion, that the blessings of Abraham apply to you. That he who finds a wife finds a good thing. Yes, it is a good thing, and "God withholds no good thing to those who walk uprightly.

I have to laugh at your note on a waitress. Just this week, I stopped by an outdoor eatery for the second time this week. I'm waited on by a pretty Filipina, maybe around age 21. I'm with my fiance and she liked her too since she was friendly and nice. Later, I asked my fiance if maybe her seeing us would make such a woman perhaps want an American? She told me Filipinas already think like that. Could be you are just playing the wrong lottery?

Anyway, May God bless your search. I can say 100% God is not done with you and His desire for you to have a wife is greater than your own. God bless you!

Patsy_Cline_Fan · Nov 6, 2024

Richard T said:
Your dilemma is felt by nearly everyone. Some call finding a wife, or job "common grace." That God will do things for people that are unbelievers at times. Another biblical approach is the "favor" of God. Favor as applied to Daniel and others in the bible, is when God looks down on a individual and extends to them something special. (Dan. 1:9). Some of this favor is conditional or based on our own behavior or attitude. Prov 3:34 for instance says he gives favor to the humble.
Interestingly, "He who finds a wife finds favor from the Lord" (Prov18:22). But here the favor here, comes after finding the wife, not before.

So how can you achieve things through God? It is by faith. I tis often told that God will pass over a thousand people to get to one person of faith. Here is an article (Click the Pdf) that will help you believe for a mate. On the Matter of a Mate - Rhema

In my own life, I wandered for years, desiring a wife but really going nowhere. Finally I got serious with God and said I would accept his plan for marriage. After prayer and even fasting, I got God's plan which has me going to the Philippines, which is amazing for finding a mate. Of course many Americans Christian and non-Christian do this, but it was never on my mind for such a thing until I let God get involved. So my advice is to get before God, learn his will and desires for what a husband is supposed to do and proceed from there. For instance, you can ask for certain physical things but are you forgetting that what you should be wanting is a woman where you can give a lot to her? It is that kind of unselfishness that will move God on your behalf. It does not have to be Asia or out of the country, it just is that you have to be humble and seek God, trusting him for this breakthrough in life.

There is a story of Jesus and a man at the pool of Bethesda (John 5:2) Apparently these pools were known for an angel stirring the waters and the first person who got in was healed. This man was paralyzed so he could never get in first to be healed. So Jesus came by and asked him if he wanted to be healed? The man replied yes and Jesus healed him. So while some do hit the lottery, in a sense for healing or in your case a wife. Others achieve the same thing more directly from God. Lottery relationships are really not as special. What God wants with you is something far greater and fulfilling. He asks do you want his plan for the best wife and family as possible? I'd say yes, and Godspeed to you on your way. Let Jesus help you by giving you the faith and ability to love and be loved by not only your wife but by God. If you are willing to do that God will bring an amazing wife.

Naysayers will be skeptical of this bold claim. But there are dozens of scriptures i could quote to you about God giving you the desires of your heart. Of God giving you favor, Of God saying "man should not be alone." That "two are better than one." that if you ask believing you have received, it shall be done for you. That it is better to marry than to burn with passion, that the blessings of Abraham apply to you. That he who finds a wife finds a good thing. Yes, it is a good thing, and "God withholds no good thing to those who walk uprightly.

I have to laugh at your note on a waitress. Just this week, I stopped by an outdoor eatery for the second time this week. I'm waited on by a pretty Filipina, maybe around age 21. I'm with my fiance and she liked her too since she was friendly and nice. Later, I asked my fiance if maybe her seeing us would make such a woman perhaps want an American? She told me Filipinas already think like that. Could be you are just playing the wrong lottery?

Anyway, May God bless your search. I can say 100% God is not done with you and His desire for you to have a wife is greater than your own. God bless you!

Thank you! Your words are quite moving actually, I could tell you invested perhaps quite a bit emotionally into the short essay.

I wanna say that I particularly appreciate the question "What you can give the woman", I have thought about this question before, but never seriously. I can't believe I haven't done that.

The kind that I'm looking for indeed is the religious conservative kind, and all my criteria came to me over quite a long period. I'm content that as I age, I did get more from life instead of repeating the same routine with no growth.

I do feel that I could be a part of a greater plan. I think one day it will all fall into places and reveal to me what it is. I believe a meaningful life is living for something greater than oneself.

On the "what can you give" front, I think other than financial stability which is 101, I have accumulated quite a bit of wisdom over the years. Of course I can't cover all the sectors but nevertheless a lot of sectors got covered. Also most importantly, I think I'm ready to be a leader. As a male is destined to be the head of a household under normal circumstances. So I'm ready to provide also spiritual security and psychological maturity. And luckily I figured out the philosophy behind decision making and I'm getting good at making major decisions. That'll certainly come in handy later.

Thank you again for your kind wishes and blessings. The feeling is mutual.

Richard T · Nov 6, 2024

Patsy_Cline_Fan said:
Thank you! Your words are quite moving actually, I could tell you invested perhaps quite a bit emotionally into the short essay.

I wanna say that I particularly appreciate the question "What you can give the woman", I have thought about this question before, but never seriously. I can't believe I haven't done that.

The kind that I'm looking for indeed is the religious conservative kind, and all my criteria came to me over quite a long period. I'm content that as I age, I did get more from life instead of repeating the same routine with no growth.

I do feel that I could be a part of a greater plan. I think one day it will all fall into places and reveal to me what it is. I believe a meaningful life is living for something greater than oneself.

On the "what can you give" front, I think other than financial stability which is 101, I have accumulated quite a bit of wisdom over the years. Of course I can't cover all the sectors but nevertheless a lot of sectors got covered. Also most importantly, I think I'm ready to be a leader. As a male is destined to be the head of a household under normal circumstances. So I'm ready to provide also spiritual security and psychological maturity. And luckily I figured out the philosophy behind decision making and I'm getting good at making major decisions. That'll certainly come in handy later.

Thank you again for your kind wishes and blessings. The feeling is mutual.

I appreciate your reply and kind words.

public hermit · Nov 6, 2024

Patsy_Cline_Fan said:
It's cliche, but at the same time, not so much.

This is going to come off as silly, but I just ran into an instance where someone got what I dream of by sheer luck, whereas I couldn't achieve the same goal after nearly a decade of trying.

Basically I'm trying to find a partner that meets certain specific set of standards. No not high standards, but specific. I have been working on it, the progress has so far been slow, with a few moments when I thought I was almost there, only to for it to turn out to be a huge disappointment (the girl got cold feet and said it wasn't going to work out, for example)

Then the other day I bump into this instance where this guy landed someone really attractive that met like 85+% of my standards, and he's poor, he doesn't have a professional career, he's oblivious about how luck he is, basically all around he doesn't come close to me, however obnoxious a statement this may sound.

The reason he was able to marry that girl was because of a series of random events. Now I'm reasonable, I understand that from a statistical standpoint, when you have millions upon millions of people, these "lottery winners" are destined to appear. So I understand I have a major confirmation bias here. To be perfectly fair, in 99.99% of the cases guys like that would have failed.

But still, the thought of how I worked really hard to become a better person, and girls just turn around and away, while some random bloke got what I dreamed of by sleepwalking in life to me is frustrating beyond words.

I'm quite psychologically strong, so this doesn't exactly trigger some sort of depression in me. But still things like this drive me nuts.

What do you guys think? What does Christianity teach about scenarios like this? Don't be shy from quoting biblical verses.

The commandment to not covet is instructive, I think. Making a judgment about a current state of affairs (*it's bad I didn't get what I wanted and they did*), as if this is the way it is and then let that affect the way I feel, is always a mistake because everything flows and what seems good can lead to what seems bad, and what seems bad can lead to something that seems good. They might be the ideal partner for you, by all appearances, but they also might become the bane of your existence. Be careful what you wish for. lol

You won't hear this from many Christians these days, mostly because they often don't know, especially Protestants, but there is an early tradition that valued being detached. As Maximus the Confessor put it, detachment leads to love. You are unable to celebrate with the person who got what you wanted. If you were detached, you could be grateful for them and celebrate with them, which is to love them because you desire their good for them just as you desire your own good for yourself (but you don't love them as you love yourself). We are unable to love appropriately because of our attachments. Jesus taught us to deny ourselves. If we really did that, we would be free of all attachments, and in having nothing we would have everything since we have their Creator and the divine presence/love, and we could find our peace and joy anywhere and at anytime.

Patsy_Cline_Fan · Nov 14, 2024

public hermit said:
The commandment to not covet is instructive, I think. Making a judgment about a current state of affairs (*it's bad I didn't get what I wanted and they did*), as if this is the way it is and then let that affect the way I feel, is always a mistake because everything flows and what seems good can lead to what seems bad, and what seems bad can lead to something that seems good. They might be the ideal partner for you, by all appearances, but they also might become the bane of your existence. Be careful what you wish for. lol

Yes. I quite agree. Sorry for the late reply. None of us has a crystal ball so you'll never know how things unravel. And yes it's unwise to covet others' possessions/good fortunes/etc. but it's also human nature to be jealous and envy.

You won't hear this from many Christians these days, mostly because they often don't know, especially Protestants, but there is an early tradition that valued being detached. As Maximus the Confessor put it, detachment leads to love. You are unable to celebrate with the person who got what you wanted. If you were detached, you could be grateful for them and celebrate with them, which is to love them because you desire their good for them just as you desire your own good for yourself (but you don't love them as you love yourself). We are unable to love appropriately because of our attachments. Jesus taught us to deny ourselves. If we really did that, we would be free of all attachments, and in having nothing we would have everything since we have their Creator and the divine presence/love, and we could find our peace and joy anywhere and at anytime.

Well that is indeed a noble state of mind worthy of pursuing. But for right now that's asking way too much of me. I think I'll taking baby steps with the detachment state of mind.

Thank you for your words of wisdom. I'll make at least some attempts to put them into practice, however unattainable it may seems.

Learning always · Dec 3, 2024

Envy is the opium of the people. It harms the society too.
To combat it, start with prayer and learning humility.

Secularist here. Need philosophical guidance/word of wisdom when it comes to Jealous and Envy

Member

Senior Member

Well-Known Member

Episcopalian

243 God loves me

243 God loves me

Member

Member

Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

social troglodyte

Member

Active Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency