SDA Question

deu58 · Jul 13, 2005

Hi Flesh

flesh99 said:
deu58 presents numerous errors here: http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=16896371&postcount=93 but it was you who said it was a devotional tool. I am asking you to defend your statement or renounce a book full of falsehoods that is put out and therefore endorsed by the SDA denomination

Fat chance of that happening!!! For him to say the Clear Word is a work of falsehoods is to denounce the Spirit of prophecy and Ellen G White to.

Because the Bible would have to read exactly like the Clear Word to actually support the writings of Ellen White as the SDA's claim it does, They do believe that everything in the Spirit of Prophecy can supported by the bible, At least until you call on them to prove something and then they just pretend you never asked,

yours in Christ
deu 58

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Jul 13, 2005

deu58 said:
Hi Flesh

Fat chance of that happening!!! For him to say the Clear Word is a work of falsehoods is to denounce the Spirit of prophecy and Ellen G White to.

Because the Bible would have to read exactly like the Clear Word to actually support the writings of Ellen White as the SDA's claim it does, They do believe that everything in the Spirit of Prophecy can supported by the bible, At least until you call on them to prove something and then they just pretend you never asked,

yours in Christ
deu 58

I am hoping that the Holy Spirit will open the eyes of the people who defend this version of scripture.

deu58 · Jul 13, 2005

Hello Flesh

flesh99 said:
I am hoping that the Holy Spirit will open the eyes of the people who defend this version of scripture.

There are some who teach this stuff with eyes wide open brother, There are SDA's who know about the falsehoods and still they teach that it is the truth, This is not new either, It has been happening since the very beginning of the SDA church,

Here is part of a letter I have on file from W. W. Prescott to William White dated April 6th 1915 W. W. Prescott, was Seventh-day Adventist educator and administrator at the turn of the century

Elder W. C. White
Sanitarium, Napa County
California

Dear Brother White:

I appreciated your letter of March 12 and I thank you for your message of sympathy concerning my father's death.

It seems to me that a large responsibility rests upon those of us who know that there are serious errors in our authorized books and yet make no special effort to correct them. The people and our average ministers trust us to furnish them with reliable statements, and they use our books as sufficient authority in their sermons, but we let them go on year after year asserting things which we know to be untrue. I cannot feel that this is right. It seems to me that we are betraying our trust and deceiving the ministers and people. It appears to me that there is much more anxiety to prevent a possible shock to some trustful people than to correct error.

Your letter indicates a desire on your part to help me, but I fear that it is a little late. The experience of the last six or eight years, and especially the things concerning which I talked with you, have had their effect on me in several ways. I have had some hard shocks to get over, and after giving the best of my life to this movement, I have little peace and satisfaction in connection with it, and I am driven to the conclusion that the only thing for me to do is to do quietly what I can do conscientiously and leave the others to go on without me. Of course this is far from a happy ending to my life-work, but this seams to be the best adjustment that I am able to make. The way your mother's writings have been handled and the false impressions concerning them, which is still fostered among the people, have brought great perplexity and trial to me. It seems to me that what amounts to deception, though probably not intentional, has been practiced in making some of her books, and that no serious effort has been made to disabuse the minds of the people of what was known to be their wrong view concerning her writings.

But it is no use to go into these matters. I have talked with you for years about them but it brings no change. I think, however, that we are drifting toward a crisis which will come sooner or later and perhaps sooner. A very strong feeling of reaction has already set in.

Yours faithfully, W. W. Prescott

yours in Christ
deu 58

Cliff2 · Jul 13, 2005

deu58 said:
Hello Flesh

There are some who teach this stuff with eyes wide open brother, There are SDA's who know about the falsehoods and still they teach that it is the truth, This is not new either, It has been happening since the very beginning of the SDA church,

Here is part of a letter I have on file from W. W. Prescott to William White dated April 6th 1915 W. W. Prescott, was Seventh-day Adventist educator and administrator at the turn of the century

Elder W. C. White
Sanitarium, Napa County
California

Dear Brother White:

I appreciated your letter of March 12 and I thank you for your message of sympathy concerning my father's death.

It seems to me that a large responsibility rests upon those of us who know that there are serious errors in our authorized books and yet make no special effort to correct them. The people and our average ministers trust us to furnish them with reliable statements, and they use our books as sufficient authority in their sermons, but we let them go on year after year asserting things which we know to be untrue. I cannot feel that this is right. It seems to me that we are betraying our trust and deceiving the ministers and people. It appears to me that there is much more anxiety to prevent a possible shock to some trustful people than to correct error.

Your letter indicates a desire on your part to help me, but I fear that it is a little late. The experience of the last six or eight years, and especially the things concerning which I talked with you, have had their effect on me in several ways. I have had some hard shocks to get over, and after giving the best of my life to this movement, I have little peace and satisfaction in connection with it, and I am driven to the conclusion that the only thing for me to do is to do quietly what I can do conscientiously and leave the others to go on without me. Of course this is far from a happy ending to my life-work, but this seams to be the best adjustment that I am able to make. The way your mother's writings have been handled and the false impressions concerning them, which is still fostered among the people, have brought great perplexity and trial to me. It seems to me that what amounts to deception, though probably not intentional, has been practiced in making some of her books, and that no serious effort has been made to disabuse the minds of the people of what was known to be their wrong view concerning her writings.

But it is no use to go into these matters. I have talked with you for years about them but it brings no change. I think, however, that we are drifting toward a crisis which will come sooner or later and perhaps sooner. A very strong feeling of reaction has already set in.

Yours faithfully, W. W. Prescott

yours in Christ
deu 58

I do not know to much about Prescott, but where is he today?

I doubt if he is a major player within the ranks of the Adventist Church.

He may have wrote that letter but look at all the letters of support for what we believe. You have such men as Doug Batchelor, John Lomacang, Kenneth Cox, Lyle Albrecht and the list goes on, too many to even name.

In a large group of people you are always going to get some who go aganist the grain.

WalksWithChrist · Jul 13, 2005

flesh99 said:
Here is a pretty good site on soul sleep: http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/avoiding/avoiding05.htm

Thanks for the link flesh99 and deu58!

deu58 · Jul 13, 2005

Hi Cliff

do not know to much about Prescott, but where is he today?

He wrote the letter in 1915, He knew Ellen White and her family personally, Today he is dead,

yours in Christ
deu 58

Cliff2 · Jul 13, 2005

deu58 said:
Hi Cliff

He wrote the letter in 1915, He knew Ellen White and her family personally, Today he is dead,

yours in Christ
deu 58

Sounds like he was not a happy person when he died. Look at the happy ones, like names I have given who are still alive and kicking.

e=mv^2 · Jul 13, 2005

Has anyone asked about the tall people on Jupiter yet? Just wondering....

Egghead · Jul 13, 2005

Just as in any other area, one doesnt look to its supporters for validation but its oppostion.

Cliff2 said:
I do not know to much about Prescott, but where is he today?

I doubt if he is a major player within the ranks of the Adventist Church.

He may have wrote that letter but look at all the letters of support for what we believe. You have such men as Doug Batchelor, John Lomacang, Kenneth Cox, Lyle Albrecht and the list goes on, too many to even name.

In a large group of people you are always going to get some who go aganist the grain.

indra_fanatic · Jul 13, 2005

I still can't understand why anyone professing to be a Christian would defend a heretical sect devoted, in large part, to essentially teaching that to achieve salvation, you have to act like a Jew in Mosaic times. There were SDA-like heretics in New Testament times as well. They were called Judaizers, and they preyed on Gentile baby Christians in an effort to turn them into Pharisaical devotees of the law.

Do you know what God says of Judaizers? Galatians 5:12: "I wish they would go all the way and emasculate themselves!"

Cliff2 · Jul 13, 2005

indra_fanatic said:
I still can't understand why anyone professing to be a Christian would defend a heretical sect devoted, in large part, to essentially teaching that to achieve salvation, you have to act like a Jew in Mosaic times. There were SDA-like heretics in New Testament times as well. They were called Judaizers, and they preyed on Gentile baby Christians in an effort to turn them into Pharisaical devotees of the law.

Do you know what God says of Judaizers? Galatians 5:12: "I wish they would go all the way and emasculate themselves!"

Another post that is wrong.

You must have been to a different SDA Church than the one I go to.

We do not act like Jew in Mosaic time at all. Where do you get that theory from?

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Jul 13, 2005

Cliff2 said:
Another post that is wrong.

You must have been to a different SDA Church than the one I go to.

We do not act like Jew in Mosaic time at all. Where do you get that theory from?

Lets see:

1. Sabbath keeping in cotradiction with scripture (as a requirement)
2. Food laws that contradict scripture (again as a requirement)

But wait you are right, SDAs do not even do those things according to scripture but rather according to a much lighter implementation laid out by EGW. So you are right there is no living like a Jew in Mosaic times invloved, only completely non-scriptural legalism.

indra_fanatic · Jul 13, 2005

Cliff2 said:
We do not act like Jew in Mosaic time at all. Where do you get that theory from?

If everything we say about SDAs is false (and most of it is taken directly from White's teachings), and indeed they are no different than any other church, why do you take such militant pride in being one?

What is this argument about?

deu58 · Jul 13, 2005

Hi e=mv^2

e=mv^2 said:
Has anyone asked about the tall people on Jupiter yet? Just wondering....

Ellen White never identified the planets, It was Joseph Bates who said that she was describing Jupiter, Joseph Bates was an avid astronomer,

Ellen G White The Early Years Volume 1, Ch 7, Pgs 113-114

"Oh," said Elder Bates, "she is viewing Jupiter!" Then having made motions as though traveling through space, she began giving a description of belts and rings in their ever-varying beauty, and said, "I see seven moons." {1BIO 113.5}

Elder Bates exclaimed, "She is describing Saturn." {1BIO 113.6} Next came the description of Uranus, with its six moons; then a wonderful description of the "opening heavens," with its glory, calling it an opening into a region more enlightened. Elder Bates said that her description far surpassed any account of the opening heavens he had ever read from any author. {1BIO 113.7} While she was talking and still in vision, he arose to his feet, and exclaimed, "O how I wish Lord John Rosse was here tonight!" Elder White inquired, "Who is Lord John Rosse?" 114 {1BIO 113.8}

"Oh," said Elder Bates, "he is the great English astronomer. I wish he was here to hear that woman talk astronomy, and to hear that description of the 'opening heavens.' It is ahead of anything I ever read on the subject."--GSAM, p. 258. {1BIO 114.1} Ellen White reported of this experience in the Curtis home: {1BIO 114.2} After I came out of vision I related what I had seen. Elder Bates then asked if I had studied astronomy. I told him I had no recollection of ever looking into an astronomy. {1BIO 114.3} Said he, "This is of the Lord." {1BIO 114.4}

I never saw him as free and happy before. His countenance shone with the light of heaven, and he exhorted the church with power.--1LS, p. 239. {1BIO 114.5} A few months later James White wrote: At our conference in Topsham, Maine, last November, Ellen had a vision of the handiworks of God. She was guided to the planets Jupiter, Saturn, and I think one more.

The number of moons that EGW saw only corresponded to the number of moons known to exist at that time in 1846, The SDA's Have covered their backsides in on that,

[ELLEN WHITE, NEITHER IN VISION NOR AFTERWARD, GAVE THE NAMES OF THE PLANETS SHE SAW. FROM HER DESCRIPTIONS BATES IDENTIFIED THEM AND JAMES WHITE MADE USE OF HIS IDENTIFICATION.] After she came out of vision, she could give a clear description of their moons, et cetera. It is well known that she knew nothing of astronomy, and could not answer one question in relation to the planets, before she had this vision.--WLF, p. 22. {1BIO 114.6}

Bates had been troubled with serious doubts as to the visions, but the evidence in the experience at Topsham was such that he accepted them wholeheartedly from that time forth. Ellen White never wrote out in detail what she was shown. It is evident that God's purpose in giving this vision was to establish confidence in the heart of Joseph Bates. It should be borne in mind that the number of moons she was shown was what Bates, up to that time, had seen through the telescope. Stronger, more modern telescopes have brought into view additional moons circling the planets described. Nevertheless, had Ellen been shown what stronger telescopes now reveal, Bates's doubts would have been confirmed, rather than alleviated.

The prophetess is never wrong,

Ellen White did claim to to have seen Alien races living on other planets though,

Early Writings, Experience and Views Pg 39-40
The Lord has given me a view of other worlds. Wings were given me, and an angel attended me from the city to a place that was bright and glorious. The grass of the place was living green, and the birds there
40
warbled a sweet song. The inhabitants of the place were of all sizes; they were noble, majestic, and lovely. They bore the express image of Jesus, and their countenances beamed with holy joy, expressive of the freedom and happiness of the place. I asked one of them why they were so much more lovely than those on the earth. The reply was, "We have lived in strict obedience to the commandments of God, and have not fallen by disobedience, like those on the earth."

yours in Christ
deu 58

deu58 · Jul 13, 2005

H Egghead

Egghead said:
Just as in any other area, one doesnt look to its supporters for validation but its oppostion.

Actually I use the the greatest supporter of all, Ellen White herself, Every thing I use is directly from the writings themselves, It is true that some of the anti SDA Websites do a little minor tweaking on the writings,

And some things are taken out of context when read with the passages above and below what they qoute

Also I have seen where they post where the info is supposed to be found and they post the wrong pages,

So I bought my own CD Rom From the the Ellen G White Estate which is the official SDA church website, So no one can say what I post is not sanctioned from the church. I also post book title, Chapter and page so any body can check for themselves what I am saying,

The Ellen White Estate has free access to a searchable data base of all the writings of Ellen White, It is from the same CD rom that I use to post here,

yours in Christ
deu 58

deu58 · Jul 13, 2005

Hi Indra_Fanatic

indra_fanatic said:
I still can't understand why anyone professing to be a Christian would defend a heretical sect devoted, in large part, to essentially teaching that to achieve salvation, you have to act like a Jew in Mosaic times. There were SDA-like heretics in New Testament times as well. They were called Judaizers, and they preyed on Gentile baby Christians in an effort to turn them into Pharisaical devotees of the law.

Do you know what God says of Judaizers? Galatians 5:12: "I wish they would go all the way and emasculate themselves!"

Sda's are not Judaizers, They only hold to the original 10 commandments,
And the food laws.

SDA's are actually worse than Judaizers, Judaizers only follow what the bible teaches through the prophets, The SDA's follow a false prophet,

Judaizers do not try to hide where they get their information from,

SDA's would rather you not know about their Prophetess,

Judaizers only follow what at least at one time was truly sanctioned by God,
They just can not come to grips with the fact that now there is a New Testament

Whereas the SDA's follow something that has never been sanctioned by God,

The judaizers recieved their information from God himself through many signs and wonders including the mt Sinai visitation that was in done in the site of all Israel.

The SDA's were deceived by a False time setting message and recieve their information from one source that can not be witnesed or confirmed by any other person, You have to have faith that their source is truly a prophetess of God,

"The Holy Ghost is the Author of the Scriptures and of the Spirit of Prophecy."
{Selected Messages,Vol.3 p.30}

"These books contain clear ,straight, unalterable truth and they should be certainly appreciated The instruction they contain is not of human production" {Letter h-339,Dec 26,1904}

"I beg of you for Christ sake to consider what I say :for I say it not of myself. It is the word of God to you" {Letter 25b, 1895,pp 1-3 to Brother and Sister Hare, April 1895}

yours in Christ
deu 58

Cliff2 · Jul 13, 2005

Early Writings, Experience and Views Pg 39-40
The Lord has given me a view of other worlds. Wings were given me, and an angel attended me from the city to a place that was bright and glorious. The grass of the place was living green, and the birds there
40
warbled a sweet song. The inhabitants of the place were of all sizes; they were noble, majestic, and lovely. They bore the express image of Jesus, and their countenances beamed with holy joy, expressive of the freedom and happiness of the place. I asked one of them why they were so much more lovely than those on the earth. The reply was, "We have lived in strict obedience to the commandments of God, and have not fallen by disobedience, like those on the earth."

yours in Christ
deu 58

Click to expand...

What is wrong with that?

deu58 · Jul 13, 2005

Hi cliff

Cliff2 said:
What is wrong with that?

Well for one when death and sin entered the creation it means that it enetered ALL of creation, As in the universe, Not just the earth, Planets suns solar systems and even entire galaxies are born and die every day,

yours in Christ
deu 58

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Jul 13, 2005

deu58 said:
Hi cliff

Well for one when death and sin entered the creation it means that it enetered ALL of creation, As in the universe, Not just the earth, Planets suns solar systems and even entire galaxies are born and die every day,

yours in Christ
deu 58

[bible]Romans 8:22[/bible]
Guess that vision was wrong as well...

indra_fanatic · Jul 13, 2005

deu58 said:
SDA's are actually worse than Judaizers, Judaizers only follow what the bible teaches through the prophets, The SDA's follow a false prophet,

You are right. At least Torah Judaism WAS a true faith and the only way to have a relationship with the Lord (at one time). Our Savior, our faith in general, and all of our Scripture come directly from the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Ellen G. White was not a biblical Prophet, but an impostor, a deceiver, and a wolf in sheep's clothing.

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