SDA - Beast of Revelation

JohnMarsten · Mar 13, 2012

Stryder06 said:
This is what I need to know:

How do you know, that your interpretation of what you've studied on your own is correct? You've stated yourself that people come up with different interpretations. How can you be sure 100% that your understanding is the correct one?

I can't!

How can you be sure 100% that your understanding is the correct one?

Stan Tei · Mar 13, 2012

Stryder06 said:
This is what I need to know:

How do you know, that your interpretation of what you've studied on your own is correct? You've stated yourself that people come up with different interpretations. How can you be sure 100% that your understanding is the correct one?

Actually, it is very simple. I have done an immense amount of research that shows that the current views are obvioulsy flawed. But that is not where it began.

To know whether we have the true historical event for the fulfillment
of prophecy: if you find every word of the prophecy, after the
figures are understood, is literally fulfilled, then you may know that
your history is the true event; but if one word lacks a fulfillment, then

you must look for another event, or wait its future development; for
God takes care that history and prophecy shall agree, so that the true

believing children of God may never be ashamed. William Miller.

When I first contemplated the "subject" I knew that I would either find that the evidence was there, or it was not. After examining the historic record for a period of 3 weeks, it jumped out at me. It was there. After that, there were some 15 specific pieces that I was not looking for that all came together into a perfect aligning match. I liken the alignment to a strand of DNA; one piece is the prophecy of more than 15 elements, and the other is a line of historic evidence, and they all fit perfectly.

Confiming all this is the fact that the parts of Revelation pertaining to this, are the keywords that form a part of the chiastic pattern of the whole book.

What I find appauling is that the Biblical REsearch Institute, which ought to know better, has adopted the Catholic interpretation. With one slight exception; they twist the Ctholic interpretation slightly to try to make it into something true. But it is entirely false.

But there are constraints on this forum that require me to have over 50 posts before I am allowed to insert a "link" here.

Over the years, I have received many emails from others. Here are a few of their observations:

I am very interested in your research and I think it is fascinating
stuff! After reading the information in detail, I am
convinced beyond any shadow of doubt that it is true.

It is very interesting to know this with its details and mathematical

precision.

I have studied your research work for some time and I find

that it is the best explanation to this last days scenario.

I am really excited about the chiastic structures and the truth
that points one way and then the other to pinpoint deeper

truths below the surface script.

I think you see how the future will play out because no other
explanation I have come across other than yours matches

Scripture exactly.

Thanks for writing back! All I can say is WOW to ev

erything
I just learned today. Ive never even heard of your

teachings before, and yet it made complete and total sense

from the moment I started reading it. Im in awe at the fact
that were living to see the end of days unfold right in

front of us!

Stan Tei · Mar 13, 2012

I should also add that there were additional conclusions which the alignment pointed to, which I could not have had any preconceived notion to sway my mind. I had to accept that what I found, was going to take place. The prophecy led me to these conclusions.

Stryder06 · Mar 13, 2012

JohnMarsten said:
I can't!

How can you be sure 100% that your understanding is the correct one?

Tried and tested. But of course, I have a ton of faith in what I believe as well. In my mind, what I've learned, is the only thing that makes since without sacrificing a single text.

I'm also not apart of the "because I can't answer every question raised by the opposition, my beliefs must be flawed" crowd.

JohnMarsten · Mar 13, 2012

Stryder06 said:
Tried and tested. But of course, I have a ton of faith in what I believe as well. In my mind, what I've learned, is the only thing that makes since without sacrificing a single text.

I'm also not apart of the "because I can't answer every question raised by the opposition, my beliefs must be flawed" crowd.

OK, then keep it up!

I too was once at your level, thinking that everything adds up in the sda

Princessdi · Mar 13, 2012

There is a difference in "studying" with a completely open mind, just you and the Holy Spirit and "studying" through a denomination's doctrinal filter.

Also, JM, I think I missed something. The quoted posted regarding EGW vision about satan's place in heaven. It is my understanding that satan appeared at the throne vacated by God when He moved to the holy of holies, and attempted to do the work of God. What did I miss?

I saw the Father rise from the throne, and in a flaming chariot go into the holy of holies within the veil, and sit down. Then Jesus rose up from the throne, and the most of those who were bowed down arose with Him. I did not see one ray of light pass from Jesus to the careless multitude after He arose, and they were left in perfect darkness. ... Then a cloudy chariot, with wheels like flaming fire, surrounded by angels, came to where Jesus was. He stepped into the chariot and was borne to the holiest, where the Father sat. There I beheld Jesus, a great High Priest, standing before the Father. (p. 55)

I turned to look at the company who were still bowed before the throne; they did not know that Jesus had left it. Satan appeared to be by the throne, trying to carry on the work of God. I saw them look up to the throne, and pray, "Father, give us Thy Spirit." Satan would then breathe upon them an unholy influence... (p. 56)

EastCoastRemnant · Mar 13, 2012

The vision sister White had was using figurative language as we know satan does not have access to the throne of God. It was to illustrate that those that don't 'follow the lamb withersoever He goeth', were left in darkness and thus followed the enemy instead of the Redeemer.

By the way, most of the protestant denoms in the early 1840's were on boeard with the increase of knowledge that was being revealed. Miller was an ordained baptist minister.... the protestant churches began closing their corporate doors to the meessage of the midnight cry in 1842. That is how protestants today have been lead away from the truth that was being proclaimed at that time. Their church leaders chose that path and those that didn't think and study for themselves the truth, along with the 50 or so that stayed true through the great disappointment, chose their fate of listening to man rather than studying the scriptures for them selves.

JohnMarsten · Mar 14, 2012

Princessdi said:
There is a difference in "studying" with a completely open mind, just you and the Holy Spirit and "studying" through a denomination's doctrinal filter.

Also, JM, I think I missed something. The quoted posted regarding EGW vision about satan's place in heaven. It is my understanding that satan appeared at the throne vacated by God when He moved to the holy of holies, and attempted to do the work of God. What did I miss?

the whole thing is a controversy to me...

is the throne vacated? is satan sitting on it? is it all figurative?

Stan Tei · Mar 14, 2012

The alignment of the prophecy with the historic record I wrote about above^

The prophecy;
Revelation 13
1 And saw a beast, having seven heads, and upon his heads the name of
blasphemy.
Revelation 17
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a
woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy,
having seven heads and ten horns.

The historic alignment;
The beast is the papacy. The blasp[hemous heads are the popes. The
seven heads are Pius, Leo, Gregory, Benedict, John, Paul and John Paul.

The prophecy;
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his
deadly wound was healed:

The historic alignment;
Pius VI was the pope in 1798 who was the head wounded. It was Pius XI
who was the pope in 1929, whose head was healed.

The prophecy;
5 And power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

The historic alignment;
The papacy reached its power in 538 and was taken away in 1798; 1,260
years, a day for a year. 42 months = 1,260 days.

The prophecy;
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth
with the sword must be killed with the sword.

The historic alignment;
In 1798 Berthier, sent by Napoleon, took Pope Pius VI captive, inflicting
his deadly wound.

The prophecy;
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number
of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six
hundred threescore and six.

The prophecy;
Revelation 17
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of
the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth
shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the
foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not,
and yet is.

The historic alignment;
The beast "was" from 538 to 1798, when Napoleon killed the beast it
became "is not" and when the arrival of the "eighth", the beast will have
returned to its full power again. (Yet future).

The prophecy;
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven
mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The historic alignment;
The seven heads named: Pius, Leo, Gregory, Benedict, John, Paul and
John Paul are all popes that have shared their names and they are
numbered. These are "count numbers". Each name represents a
mountain. The numbers of the names are counted.

There were 12 popes named Pius
There were 13 popes named Leo
There were 16 popes named Gregory
There were 14 popes named Benedict
There were 21 popes named John
There were 6 popes named Paul
There were 2 popes named John Paul.

1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10+11+12 = 78
1+2+3 --- +13 = 91
1+2+3 --- +16 = 136
1+2+3 --- +14 = 105
1+2+3 --- +21 = 231
1+2+3 --- +6 = 21
1+2 --- --- = 3

78 + 91 + 136 + 105 + 231 + 21 + 3 = 665

There remains only a single count of 1 to complete the count to 666. This
will be complete by the "eighth yet to come.

The prophecy;
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other
is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

The historic alignment;
Five are fallen: Pius, Leo, Gregory, Benedict, John (note: Benedict is
among the first five). Paul is the "one is", and pope John Paul, who
introduced a "new name" is the one not having yet come at the time of
pope Paul.

The popes named Paul, held the papacy 67 years. The others as follows;
Benedict 88 years, Leo 99 years, John 122 years, Gregory 125 years,
Pius 161 years. Thus, John Paul, holding the papacy for 26½ years
constitute the "short space".

The prophecy;
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of
the seven, and goeth into perdition.

The historic alignment;
This eighth is the next and final pope, after Benedict XVI is deposed. He
will complete the count to 666 and he will be the Antichrist. He will rise
from the bottomless pit. He is Satan himself, who will personate Christ
and take over the papacy.

"In this age antichrist will appear as the true Christ, and then the law of
God will be fully made void in the nations of our world. Rebellion against
God's holy law will be fully ripe. But the true leader of all this rebellion is
Satan clothed as an angel of light. Men will be deceived and will exalt him
to the place of God, and deify him." Testimonies to Ministers p. 62.

"As the second appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ draws near, satanic
agencies are moved from beneath. Satan will not only appear as a human
being, but he will personate Jesus Christ, and the world that has rejected
the truth will receive him as the Lord of lords and King of kings." --Bible
Commentary, Vol. 5 1105, 1900

"The last great delusion is soon to open before us. Antichrist is to perform
his marvelous works in our sight. So closely will the counterfeit resemble
the true that it will be impossible to distinguish between them except by
the Holy Scriptures. By their testimony every statement and every miracle
must be tested." --Great Controversy p. 593, 1911

By their fulfillment in these last days they will explain themselves."
--Bible Commentary Vol. 7, p. 949

peggy sue · Mar 14, 2012

the beast is not the papacy, she is who rides the beast, the beast will destroy her once they're done using her, i'm under the impression the "beast" is all four beast put togather as one accumulative great beast as we see parts of each beast being incorporated into the one final great beast. notice the third beast is a leopard, and if you can understand a leopard is the most elusive animals on the planet, Its never seen until it strikes this is the interpretation Revelation gives as first account of the beast "like a leopard" although it has retained its features of feet like a bear, and mouth of a lion, and its power is completely satanic, i'm under the impression that the beast is what people refer to as the illuminati and other connected secret societies that will one day combine their satanic occultic practices if they haven't already

JohnMarsten · Mar 14, 2012

Stan Tei said:
The alignment of the prophecy with the historic record I wrote about above^

The prophecy;
Revelation 13
1 And saw a beast, having seven heads, and upon his heads the name of
blasphemy.
Revelation 17
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a
woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy,
having seven heads and ten horns.

The historic alignment;
The beast is the papacy. The blasp[hemous heads are the popes. The
seven heads are Pius, Leo, Gregory, Benedict, John, Paul and John Paul.

The prophecy;
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his
deadly wound was healed:

The historic alignment;
Pius VI was the pope in 1798 who was the head wounded. It was Pius XI
who was the pope in 1929, whose head was healed.

The prophecy;
5 And power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

The historic alignment;
The papacy reached its power in 538 and was taken away in 1798; 1,260
years, a day for a year. 42 months = 1,260 days.

The prophecy;
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth
with the sword must be killed with the sword.

The historic alignment;
In 1798 Berthier, sent by Napoleon, took Pope Pius VI captive, inflicting
his deadly wound.

The prophecy;
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number
of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six
hundred threescore and six.

The prophecy;
Revelation 17
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of
the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth
shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the
foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not,
and yet is.

The historic alignment;
The beast "was" from 538 to 1798, when Napoleon killed the beast it
became "is not" and when the arrival of the "eighth", the beast will have
returned to its full power again. (Yet future).

The prophecy;
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven
mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The historic alignment;
The seven heads named: Pius, Leo, Gregory, Benedict, John, Paul and
John Paul are all popes that have shared their names and they are
numbered. These are "count numbers". Each name represents a
mountain. The numbers of the names are counted.

There were 12 popes named Pius
There were 13 popes named Leo
There were 16 popes named Gregory
There were 14 popes named Benedict
There were 21 popes named John
There were 6 popes named Paul
There were 2 popes named John Paul.

1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10+11+12 = 78
1+2+3 --- +13 = 91
1+2+3 --- +16 = 136
1+2+3 --- +14 = 105
1+2+3 --- +21 = 231
1+2+3 --- +6 = 21
1+2 --- --- = 3

78 + 91 + 136 + 105 + 231 + 21 + 3 = 665

There remains only a single count of 1 to complete the count to 666. This
will be complete by the "eighth yet to come.

The prophecy;
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other
is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

The historic alignment;
Five are fallen: Pius, Leo, Gregory, Benedict, John (note: Benedict is
among the first five). Paul is the "one is", and pope John Paul, who
introduced a "new name" is the one not having yet come at the time of
pope Paul.

The popes named Paul, held the papacy 67 years. The others as follows;
Benedict 88 years, Leo 99 years, John 122 years, Gregory 125 years,
Pius 161 years. Thus, John Paul, holding the papacy for 26½ years
constitute the "short space".

The prophecy;
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of
the seven, and goeth into perdition.

The historic alignment;
This eighth is the next and final pope, after Benedict XVI is deposed. He
will complete the count to 666 and he will be the Antichrist. He will rise
from the bottomless pit. He is Satan himself, who will personate Christ
and take over the papacy.

"In this age antichrist will appear as the true Christ, and then the law of
God will be fully made void in the nations of our world. Rebellion against
God's holy law will be fully ripe. But the true leader of all this rebellion is
Satan clothed as an angel of light. Men will be deceived and will exalt him
to the place of God, and deify him." Testimonies to Ministers p. 62.

"As the second appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ draws near, satanic
agencies are moved from beneath. Satan will not only appear as a human
being, but he will personate Jesus Christ, and the world that has rejected
the truth will receive him as the Lord of lords and King of kings." --Bible
Commentary, Vol. 5 1105, 1900

"The last great delusion is soon to open before us. Antichrist is to perform
his marvelous works in our sight. So closely will the counterfeit resemble
the true that it will be impossible to distinguish between them except by
the Holy Scriptures. By their testimony every statement and every miracle
must be tested." --Great Controversy p. 593, 1911

By their fulfillment in these last days they will explain themselves."
--Bible Commentary Vol. 7, p. 949

I must say that I highly doubt that...

even with that 665 thing with one to come... I dont know, seems very far fethced

Stan Tei · Mar 14, 2012

JohnMarsten said:
I must say that I highly doubt that...

even with that 665 thing with one to come... I dont know, seems very far fethced

Far fetched?
Hardly, it is a long string of prophecy that is aligned with a long string of history, and the alignment is impeccably accurate. Most prophetic interpretation is based on only one or at most a few elements at a time. This one hosts the entire string of more than 15 elements, aligned like a strand of DNA. Furthermore, it integrates chapters 13 with 17, showing its chiastic pattern of 7 key elements. There is no other interpretation that aligns the key chiastic elements.

In the last 15 years since this was first discovered, not one person has stepped forward to dispute one figure or fact in the case. Not even a Catholic. The only dispute that a Catholic has, is that their premise is that the beast is not the papacy.

Only those who are ignorant have challenged the facts. Such as "you only counted 21 John's and the last one was John XXIII..." And then when they acctually count the number of John's in the official record, they see that there are only 21 John's. Fact! They did not consider the antipopes in the papal record.

So, do you want to challenge any of the facts? Or you just want to caste your doubts?

I do not stand alone in this determined outcome. The Catholic prophet Malachy also has predicted the same outcome. Another has given Benedict XVI at most, 7 years. That time is up next month.

Stryder06 · Mar 15, 2012

Stryder06 · Mar 15, 2012

JohnMarsten said:
OK, then keep it up!

I too was once at your level, thinking that everything adds up in the sda

So would you say you've surpassed my "level" now?

And just out of curiosity, what would you do if all we've taught about the Sunday laws and what not comes to pass?

JohnMarsten · Mar 15, 2012

Stryder06 said:
So would you say you've surpassed my "level" now?

And just out of curiosity, what would you do if all we've taught about the Sunday laws and what not comes to pass?

Well, as a human being I am subject to error. However, I can only make decisions based on my current knowledge. As of this moment it seems unlikely to me that a sunday law is on its way, something is coming though...

Now, should it really come to pass, I dont think I would follow that law...

EastCoastRemnant · Mar 15, 2012

JohnMarsten said:
Now, should it really come to pass, I dont think I would follow that law...

Just like the Parisees of Jesus' time when presented with incontrovertable proof of what was prophesied, they turned away because it did not fit their preconceived ideas. If you think you will be able to stand by waffling till the time of decision, you will be swept away in the deception and delusion of that time.

Stryder06 · Mar 15, 2012

JohnMarsten said:
Well, as a human being I am subject to error. However, I can only make decisions based on my current knowledge. As of this moment it seems unlikely to me that a sunday law is on its way, something is coming though...

Now, should it really come to pass, I dont think I would follow that law...

You know when you use "however" you pretty much say "Forget everything I said before hand"

Why do you think it's unlikely given it's been enacted in other countries?

Stan Tei · Mar 15, 2012

According to what I know, it will be the next pope (AKA Satan) who will bring on the Sunday Laws.

EastCoastRemnant · Mar 15, 2012

Stan Tei said:
According to what I know, it will be the next pope (AKA Satan) who will bring on the Sunday Laws.

We do know that satan will try and impersonate Christ... I don't know if I subscribe to the numerical Pope theory though.

Stan Tei · Mar 15, 2012

What do the popes claim? To be God on earth. To have the power to forgive sins.
To be the most powerful man on earth. It is a common knowledge among Catholics that the anticipated Antichrist will take over the papacy. Satan is the Antichrist.
St Malachy's prophecy is that the "Terrible Judge" will judge the people. All the prophecy points there, to the number 666...

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