I honestly give up...
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well various verses in Revelation show those in Heaven presenting prayers to God. its kinda common sense then to ask them to pray for us. just like i know my mom prays for me, but i might specifically ask her to pray for me at times.
also we accept 2 Maccabees as canonical which specifically shows the Priest Onias and Jeremiah (both deceased) praying for the Maccabees.
You want lots of scripture? Go here:
[URL="http://www.catholic.com/library/Praying_to_the_Saints.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/library/Praying_to_the_Saints.asp[/URL]
Hello TankGirl,
Praying to the Saints: Alleged Proof Texts
Regarding your question, In Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" (Psalm 148:1-2).
In the book of Revelation, John sees that the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints (Revelation 5:8). Also we read that " another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, ascended before God from the angels hand." (Revelation 8:3,4). We see that those in heaven, angels and humans, pray for us.
The above quotations are the closest attempts to give biblical support to the tradition of invoking dead saints. However, if we carefully look at those scriptures, we quickly discover that they do not support this practice at all.
The psalmist expresses his desire that the angels and all creation praise the Lord:
Praise the LORD! Praise the LORD from the heavens; praise Him in the heights! Praise Him, all His angels; praise Him, all His hosts! Praise Him, sun and moon; praise Him, all you stars of light! Praise Him, you heavens of heavens, and you waters above the heavens! (Psalms 148:1-4).
The psalmist addresses the heavens, the waters, the beasts, the birds, the fire and the snow, and all the people of the earth to praise God. Are we to conclude that this psalm teaches us to invoke the angels? We might as well say that we should be praying to the sun and the moon and the stars!
In the book of Revelation we read about the saints (Christians) on earth praying to God. The incense that is offered to God by the angel and the elders symbolizes their prayers.
It must be emphasized that the incense represents the prayers of the saints that is, the prayers of Christians on earth. Twice we are told that the incense is 'the prayers of the saints.' Therefore the incense does not represent the intercessory prayers of the angel or the elders in heaven.
Moreover, these prayers were addressed to God, and not to the elders in heaven or to the angel, for the incense ascended up before God. The saints on earth were praying to God; they were not asking the angels or saints in heaven to pray for them.
Clearly these passages do not teach us to pray to departed saints or angels, nor that they are interceding for us. If anyone desires to learn from the Bible about prayer, he would be in no doubt to whom he should address his prayers.
From the dawn of human existence, when men begun to call upon the name of the Lord (Genesis 4:26), to the last prayer recorded in the Bible (Revelation 22:20), the consistent example of all Gods people was to address their prayers to the Lord. Jesus teaches us by His example to pray to God (Luke 6:12). Jesus also teaches us to address our prayers to 'our Father in heaven.' The apostles and the disciples prayed to the Lord. We are taught to pray 'for' (not 'to') all saints, that is, we should pray for the needs of the living Christians on earth (Ephesians 6:18).
Communication with the dead is the practice of pagan religions and the occult, and not the Judeo-Christian faith as recorded in the Bible. The prophet Isaiah tells us:
And when they say to you, Seek those who are mediums and wizards, who whisper and mutter, should not a people seek their God? Should they seek the dead on behalf of the living? To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Whoever teaches that we should "seek the dead on behalf of the living" is in darkness and degrades the Christian faith to the level of the occult and superstition.
Hope this helped you
I wouldn't stand on one verse from Revelation to base a doctrine on.Rev. 8:3
it is not saints in heaven but it is a being offering up your prayers to God
in the Bible the word saint is often used to refer to those who are still alive, but that is because the epistles are letters addressing the church, or saints, in differant cities. Now this Bible verse does not say all the saints on earth but all the saints, this could imply the saints in heaven as well
Because the NT epistles were:Anyone know why the NT church didn't practice it ?....Why they didn't give and example?
1 Timothy 2:1-3:Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name.
10 Your kingdom come. Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors.
13 And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen
There is the example given to us by Jesus Christ, its good enough for me.
I am simply looking for cites of verses which people here feel point to the idea of praying to saints.
No, it wasn't that it was too much to ask. It was that you crippled the topic by unreasonable restriction in the OP.
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