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ortho_cat said:
See with the creed, u can instantly rule out the JW's because they don't profess the Trinity, but with scripture as rule, JW's can profess the same, yet still deny the Trinity.
Note that it can be shown from the scriptures themselves that the JW's don't truly have scripture as their rule, for their denial of the Trinity contradicts the scriptures' teaching of the Trinity: Jesus Christ is God (John 1:1,14, Matthew 1:23), and he's uncreated God just as God the Father is uncreated God, for everything that has been created has been created by Jesus (John 1:3, Colossians 1:16-17). Because Jesus is uncreated, there was never a time when he was not; he has always existed: he is YHWH the Holy One, from everlasting (Habakkuk 1:12a, Acts 3:14, Micah 5:2c).
Jesus is YHWH the only Savior (Isaiah 43:11, Titus 2:13), YHWH the good shepherd (Psalms 23:1, John 10:11, Mark 10:18), YHWH who will set his feet on the Mount of Olives at his return (Zechariah 14:3-4, Acts 1:11-12), YHWH who is the first and the last (Isaiah 44:6, Revelation 2:8), YHWH the great I AM (Exodus 3:14, John 8:58), the great God (Titus 2:13b), the mighty God (Isaiah 9:6), one God with God the Father (John 10:30, John 20:28), equal in divinity with God the Father (Philippians 2:6).
Just as the Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19b) is the three distinct, co-existing Persons (Mark 1:9-11) of God the Father (Galatians 1:3), God the Son (Hebrews 1:8), and God the Holy Spirit (cf. Mark 13:11 & Matthew 10:19-20; Acts 5:3-4), so the Trinity is YHWH the Father, YHWH the Son, and YHWH the Holy Spirit, for YHWH is the only God (Isaiah 45:5-6).
While there's no sufficient analogy to completely explain God (Isaiah 40:18), how he can be one God and yet three Persons at the same time, the Bible does refer to God speaking things into existence (e.g. Genesis 1:3; Hebrews 11:3). What God spoke was his Word, who is that Person of the Trinity who has become flesh in Jesus Christ (John 1:1,14, 1 Timothy 3:16, Luke 24:39). But God the Word existed even before God the Father spoke anything into existence, because all things created were created by God the Word (John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:16-17). And the original Greek word in John 1:1,14 for "Word" is "Logos", which refers not only to spoken words, but also to any ordered thoughts. Clearly, God has always had ordered thoughts, so God the Word has always existed.
So a human analogy for God would have God the Father as the mind, and God the Word as the ordered thoughts, speech, and writings (incarnate words) of that mind. God the Holy Spirit would then be analogous to the breath (spirit) which is inextricable from human speech, and also inextricable from ordered thought, in that a non-breathing person is dead and his brain has no thoughts. God the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4) is one God with God the Father and God the Word because the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father (cf. Matthew 10:19-20 & Mark 13:11) and the Spirit of the Word (John 14:16-18, Romans 8:9).
While an individual human being isn't three persons, the truth about God can still be grasped by looking at man's design, for man was made in God's image (Genesis 1:26). Just as an individual man has his word (e.g. Revelation 12:11) and his spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:23), so the one God has his Word (John 1:1) and his Spirit (Romans 8:9). But the one God is so infinitely greater than man (Isaiah 40:17) that the Word of God and the Spirit of God are distinct Persons within his being.
Besides the analogy of a single human's mind, thoughts/speech/writings, and breath, the Trinity can also be compared to the single sun's sphere, light, and heat. The Father would be analogous to the sphere of the sun, which is invisible to humans except for its visible light, which is analogous to the incarnate, visible Word (Colossians 1:15, John 14:9). And the sun is felt by humans via its invisible, infrared rays, which would be analogous to the Holy Spirit.
Another analogy of how God can be one God and yet three Persons at the same time would be H20 (subscript 2), which even though it's only one substance, it can exist in three distinct states of solid, liquid, and gas at the same time (such as in one glass two-thirds full with water and ice cubes, and with water vapor filling the top third of the glass).
Another analogy of how God can be one God and yet three Persons at the same time would be space, which even though it's only one area, it consists of three distinct dimensions at the same time.
Another analogy of how God can be one God and yet three Persons at the same time would be 1x1x1=1, or 1a x 1b x 1c = 1abc.
Some people think that Jesus Christ can't possibly be God because he prays to God the Father. But the answer to this is that Jesus prays to God the Father (e.g. John 11:41-42) because even though Jesus is God (John 1:1,14), he at the same time is also fully human just like us (Hebrews 2:17), and so he has a God and Father just like us (John 20:17). Before Jesus became our eternally-human mediator/high priest (1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 2:17, Hebrews 7:24-26), and the only-begotten (only-born) Son of God (John 3:16), the only human born without any human father (Luke 1:34-35), Jesus pre-existed (John 17:5, John 8:58) from all eternity as God the Word (John 1:1,14, 1 Timothy 3:16). Jesus has always been, and still is, even now in human flesh (Luke 24:39), one God with God the Father (John 10:30, John 20:28, Titus 2:13). Jesus has always been, and still is, even now in human flesh (1 John 4:3), equal in divinity with God the Father (Philippians 2:6, Revelation 2:8, Isaiah 44:6).
Christians must in no way encourage those who claim to be Christians yet deny the true, Biblical doctrine regarding Jesus Christ (2 John 1:7-11). Denying the doctrine of the full-divinity of Jesus is a very serious problem, just as serious as denying the doctrine that Jesus remains fully human (1 John 4:3, 2 John 1:7), now and forever in the flesh (Luke 24:39, Hebrews 7:24-26, Hebrews 2:17, 1 Timothy 2:5). Denying either the full-divinity or the full-humanity of Jesus denies his ability to save us sinful humans from hell, for Jesus' human suffering during his Passion had to satisfy God the Father's justice (Isaiah 53:11).
Jesus' suffering during his Passion was sufficient to forgive the sins of everyone (1 John 2:2) because Jesus isn't just a human, but also God (John 1:1,14, John 10:30, John 20:28): his soul is infinite, and so the suffering of his soul (Isaiah 53:11) was infinite in amount (even though it wasn't infinite in duration), and so his suffering could satisfy God the Father's justice (Isaiah 53:11), which requires an infinite amount of human suffering for sin (Matthew 25:46).
Because humans who aren't God have finite souls, for them to suffer an infinite amount for their sins they must suffer over an infinite duration of time (Matthew 25:46, Revelation 14:10-11, Mark 9:46). Every human has sinned (Romans 3:9-10,23) except Jesus (Hebrews 4:15b, 2 Corinthians 5:21). But because Jesus suffered for sins (1 Peter 3:18, Isaiah 53:11b) an infinite amount, when the elect believe in Jesus' human/divine sacrifice they can have their past sins forgiven (Romans 3:25-26, Matthew 26:28) while God the Father's justice remains fully satisfied by Jesus' suffering for their sins (Isaiah 53:11).
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