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SnuP · Feb 14, 2003

I absolutely agree. The mind is a part of the soul. The parts of the soul, are the Mind, the Will, and the Emotions.

The problem is that I never said that the Holy Spirit occupies the soul, rather I said that He occupies the spirit and it is the spirit that is saved, because your spirit is the one that has complete communion with God.

Do you really believe that the Holy Spirit occupies your soul?

And if so, why then does the soul of man have so much darkness in it if the Spirit of Light is living there?

Caedmon · Feb 14, 2003

Today at 12:34 AM SnuP said this in Post #42 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=652456#post652456)

I absolutely agree. The mind is a part of the soul. The parts of the soul, are the Mind, the Will, and the Emotions.

The problem is that I never said that the Holy Spirit occupies the soul, rather I said that He occupies the spirit and it is the spirit that is saved, because your spirit is the one that has complete communion with God.

Do you really believe that the Holy Spirit occupies your soul?

And if so, why then does the soul of man have so much darkness in it if the Spirit of Light is living there?

Huh? Are you saying there's two souls? I believe that we have one soul, and that that entity is one entity, incapable of being dissected in any way.

Caedmon · Feb 14, 2003

Today at 12:34 AM SnuP said this in Post #42 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=652456#post652456)
And if so, why then does the soul of man have so much darkness in it if the Spirit of Light is living there?

Because sin always leaves a trace of damage on the soul, a stain that needs to be cleansed. Say a husband cusses out his wife... well, if that man doesn't work toward having himself cleansed of the effect that that sin has on his soul, that trace is going to leave a foothold for that very sin to take place again, and more easily so. The foothold, the stain, must be cleansed.

SnuP · Feb 14, 2003

there is spirit and there is soul. There is the Holy of Holies and the Holy Place. Spirit, Soul and Body. the Soul itself has three seperate areas, mind, will, and emotions.

When you are saved, the Holy Ghost takes up residence in your spirit (He does not occupy the soul).

God purifies what ever He houses. He will not exist where there is sin. Thus the reason for my line of questions. If God did occupy the soul, then there could never be any sin in the soul. I.E. never an evil thought. That is obviously not the case.

SnuP · Feb 14, 2003

Today at 12:52 AM humblejoe said this in Post #44

Because sin always leaves a trace of damage on the soul, a stain that needs to be cleansed. Say a husband cusses out his wife... well, if that man doesn't work toward having himself cleansed of the effect that that sin has on his soul, that trace is going to leave a foothold for that very sin to take place again, and more easily so. The foothold, the stain, must be cleansed.

What you are refering to is called defilement, in the Scriptures.  God will not occupy any place that is defiled or has darkness or a trace of sin.  He is holy therefore the place He occupies must be holy.  That is why God lives in the spirit of a man and not the soul.

Serving4Christ · Feb 14, 2003

Yesterday at 06:29 PM Live4Jesus said this in Post #24

Panic attacks is usually a sign of demons indwelling... or just an unclean spirit.

Your spirit is panicking. Unexplainable emotions hmmm...

You could use a good church that does deliverance, you would feel brand new, for a few days at least till they came back...

hmmm....don't know what to say about that one.  Your head aint spinning 360 degrees is it?  No split pea soup yet?  just wondering...

Actually, panic attacks have been linked to low levels of serotonin in the brain, it is also shown to be a genetic process, passed down from generation to generation.  The same medication used to treat depression has been proven to rid people of panic disorders.  Several new developments in treating panic disorders have come within the past couple of years.  Paxil seems to be the choice for ridding unwanted panic attacks, and a nice long prayer to God for the development of such great medicine!

 

 

As to why you have them?     

SnuP · Feb 14, 2003

Or is it that fear produces increased levels of serotonin? who desides which is the cause and which is the effect. Did the sientist test these people before the panic attacks or only after? I pretty sure that it is the other way around.

unitedistand · Feb 14, 2003

ok.... to reply to Humblejoe's posts in chronologal order: "faith healing", NO hypnosis is used. Now, concerning panick attacks: they can be caused by demonic oppression or posession (personal expierience)... that's the same as depression, but to stay on topic, I will not get into that....

Michie · Feb 14, 2003

Ok Andrew.

But i still think we disagree.

Not all illnesses or disorders are attributed to demons.

Christians do get ill, they do fear & they do suffer.

Some do not get healed.

There are those in different countries that are hungry & persecuted.

God promised us eternal life.

But I don't think He ever said things will always be easy here.

It is according to His will, not ours.

Sometimes things that according to our flesh are not pleasant but God seems to have the knack for turning these situations to His glory.

I have a real propblem with some of these lines of thinking because it seems to point the finger at the hurting.

I do not think it is possible for a believer indwelt with the Holy Spirit to be possessed with demons.

I don't see the two co-opting someone.

A house divided cannot stand.

Andrew · Feb 14, 2003

But i still think we disagree.
Not all illnesses or disorders are attributed to demons.

nobody's saying that.

Christians do get ill, they do fear & they do suffer.

yes that's obvious, but its not what God wants.

Some do not get healed.

that's obvious -- just like not all get saved.

There are those in different countries that are hungry & persecuted.

certainly God does not want anyone hungry.

God promised us eternal life. But I don't think He ever said things will always be easy here.

yes he said there will be trials but he also said he wld "deliver us out of them ALL".

It is according to His will, not ours.

then read the Bible to find out what his revealed will is. no need to remain in the dark and speculate.

Evening Mist · Feb 14, 2003

Panic attacks singnal that something more is needed.
God provides for our needs in many different and creative ways.
God does not condemn us for having fears, he comforts us.
Each of us responds to a different kind of comfort.
Just like each of my children responds to a different kind of comfort when they are upset.

And honestly, equating a panic attack with "fear" is oversimplifying the issue. Anxiety is not exactly the same thing as fear. And very often, the person who is having an attack does not recognize the feeling as anxiety, or fear, or panic -- but might well respond to the attack with overwhelming fear of what it might be doing to them. The various approaches that people have mentioned (picturing themselves being held by Mary) help to control that fear and the attack looses its intensity.

Joe -- what a beautiful image. I'm so glad that God has given you that gift.

SpiritPsalmist · Feb 14, 2003

Today at 08:37 AM Evening Mist said this in Post #52

Panic attacks singnal that something more is needed.
God provides for our needs in many different and creative ways.
God does not condemn us for having fears, he comforts us.
Each of us responds to a different kind of comfort.
Just like each of my children responds to a different kind of comfort when they are upset.

And honestly, equating a panic attack with "fear" is oversimplifying the issue. Anxiety is not exactly the same thing as fear. And very often, the person who is having an attack does not recognize the feeling as anxiety, or fear, or panic -- but might well respond to the attack with overwhelming fear of what it might be doing to them. The various approaches that people have mentioned (picturing themselves being held by Mary) help to control that fear and the attack looses its intensity.

Joe -- what a beautiful image. I'm so glad that God has given you that gift.

 

God says, "my people perish for lack of knowledge".  How one initially responds to panic is one thing but how one continues to respond is another. 

You're correct that God does not condemn us, however, He has given us the authority over anything that would try to bind us.  When we choose to not use the authority He has given us, then we are no better than Adam, who by his own choosing became dominated by what God had said he had dominion over.

The world  has given nice clinical names to things and then we attach our name to it and it is now "ours".  My panic attacks,  my feelings, etc.  

By simple I do not mean necessarily that everything was "all better" in the blink of an eye.  I became knowledgable of God's Word and what it says regarding our "battle not being against flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities of the air."  I began to do battle in the right direction and I did not have those problems anymore.

They still try to come back once in awhile and I am learning to not let them have any hold. It takes work to be an overcomer instead of being overcome.

Quaffer

Evening Mist · Feb 14, 2003

Quaffer -- visualizing a spiritual battle is one way to take control over your mind and emotions. For many people it is a very good way. It might well represent reality, but I'm not speaking to that.

There are other strategies that are equally helpful. It is my contention that they are orchestarted by God.

When I have a panic attack (and I have and do,) I accept it as a signal that my life needs an adjustment. I cancel and apointment, I sit down on the floor and rest in God's love, I pull the car over and ask someone else to drive..... There is no reason to believe that these are not good and God given ways to handle a panic attack.

Evening Mist · Feb 14, 2003

I am not being clear. I am sorry. I am trying to say that the cause of a panic attack is NOT always fear, though anxiety/fear/panic may play into it.

It is unfair to decide for other people that if they would just be a good enough Christian, their attacks will go away. It is unfair and untrue.

A person without fear might have an attack as a result of stress.

The cause of a panic attack is chemical, and nobody really understands what causes the chemical imbalance. It is impossible to tell whether life first affects chemistry or chemistry first affects life. And it is equally difficult to try to factor in "causes" of spirit and distinguish them from reactions of spirit.

Often a panic attacks feels like a heart attack, pure and simple. The person reacts to the attack with panic -- and that is why it is named such.

How the mix of inter-related causes needs to be addressed depends on the person and the situation. I have worked with brain damaged clients for whom medication made the difference between life and eath, and for others it meant a subtle but important difference in their level of independence.

For others, like me, an attack like that means "Slow down, breath, stop trying to take on so much and be strong in the Lord."

Live4Jesus · Feb 14, 2003

Today at 06:13 AM SnuP said this in Post #40 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=652413#post652413)

You are extremely right.  But I think that you may be missing somethings.  You already know that bad spirits can not occupy the same space as the Holy Spirit.  But is the Holy Spirit occupying your mind?  If He does occupy your mind then no darkness or sin should be found there.  Bad spirits can occupy any space that has darkness in it.  In this case it would be easy for a demon to occupy your thoughts and yet have the Holy Spirit maintain control of your spirit.  The reality is that you do need salvation.  Not salvation for your spirit, but salvation for your mind and thoughts.  You may believe that you only need to get saved once.  That is true.  You only need to get saved from hell once, but you may need to get saved from seperation many times.  Jesus didn't come just to save us from hell.  He accually came to restore our relationship with God.  From this understanding there are many areas in our lives that need to be restored and saved from the seperation that keeps us from God.  Satan has control of us in any area that is not saved (from seperation).  Those are also the areas that are not free from sin and desease.  Fear (panic attacts) are a seperation of our minds from the Lord.  Perfect love cast out fear.  So therefore you have not experienced God's love in your mind.  As long as you have area that are not saved, crusified, and redeemed, then you will have areas of defeat, and are subject to the enemies control (sin).

That is reallly well put SnuP, thats what it has been like here as well... got saved (from hell) then when through a time where He chastised me real good, which I like, i like good solid correction (bad or ignorant criticism is not good, but I love a positive critique, and who better than the Holy Spirit for that? Best teacher in the universe... but believe me I did cry before I understood... because He was quite forthright about MY failings... which I could not see)

Saved from seperation many times.... indeed... slipping up here and there and He yanks me back... I have to want to go back to get there so I do listen quite intently... and work on those areas He points out.

I like to ask Him like David did... I say Lord search my heart... and then over the next week or two things will crop up... some He speaks directly to me, other things He does have to show me through experience... we're getting there... its like a dance... He leads, I follow, I am still learning to dance.

I think in time we'll be quite a duet...

Live4Jesus · Feb 14, 2003

Far as I see it at this point in my life... either you have Faith and look to God, or you don't and try to resolve these thing (and related) through the force of your own will or imaginations (medicines, psychiatry).

I put God first... if He shows me what is within myself how can I argue? He is God. I am not so forward as to say, that I know better -that science knows better... obviously all arguing here for science and medicine have never been in this arena fully with God. Its obvious. And yes I can say that outright, because I have been there, and I do know how He teaches and of what concerning these things... and proof of that is that He has taught others here exactly the same things He has taught me... I can guarantee there is not a single textbook anywhere that can teach you these things fully, you must be taught by God about spiritual things because He sees what you cannot.

reading a book won't cut it. no university degrees on this one.

by arguing for medicine all you are doing is denying the finest physician in the universe.

SnuP · Feb 14, 2003

Today at 09:47 AM Evening Mist said this in Post #55

I am not being clear. I am sorry. I am trying to say that the cause of a panic attack is NOT always fear, though anxiety/fear/panic may play into it.

It is unfair to decide for other people that if they would just be a good enough Christian, their attacks will go away. It is unfair and untrue.

A person without fear might have an attack as a result of stress.

The cause of a panic attack is chemical, and nobody really understands what causes the chemical imbalance. It is impossible to tell whether life first affects chemistry or chemistry first affects life. And it is equally difficult to try to factor in "causes" of spirit and distinguish them from reactions of spirit.

Often a panic attacks feels like a heart attack, pure and simple. The person reacts to the attack with panic -- and that is why it is named such.

How the mix of inter-related causes needs to be addressed depends on the person and the situation. I have worked with brain damaged clients for whom medication made the difference between life and eath, and for others it meant a subtle but important difference in their level of independence.

For others, like me, an attack like that means "Slow down, breath, stop trying to take on so much and be strong in the Lord."

I can see your point about the differing causes of panic attacks, but it still means that they are rooted in darkness.  And that means that there is undealt with darkness, in the life of the person that is experiencing these panic attacks.  Christ came to deliver us from darkness, and the cause of panic attacks.

Remember peace and joy and a sound mind?

This is what God came to give us.  Everything that Jesus taught in His ministry was to deliver us of such things.  It sound as though you may need to appropriate this delieverence rather than just cooping.

Evening Mist · Feb 14, 2003

Snup -- I agree with your last post. I still believe there are different methods God can use to bring about healing.

And some people always have to "just cope" because the world is far from prefect, and we inflict evil upon one-another and on themselves. My clients in the rehab were sick in their minds as a result of car accidents or not wearing bicyle helmets. There is always the hope for healing, but in God's timing. In the mean time we wait, and we cope, and there is nothing wrong with "coping."

And it isn't always just "coping" either. When I burn my finger I take it as a sign that my finger is too close to the fire and so I step back, or I put a pair of oven mits on so I can get on with my work. I don't pray that God will make my finger tougher so that it can stand up to the heat. I respond sensilby to the God-given phsycial cue called "pain." Lots of people resons to emotional pain in a similar fashion.

SnuP · Feb 14, 2003

But you can pray for God to make you more sensitive to His prompting, so that because of His warning you don't get burned (Or start worrying too much, or fearing some situation, or getting too involved in things you can't handle). And then you can find real victory, not because God keeps rescuing you, but because you have learned to walk in the Spirit.

Live4Jesus · Feb 14, 2003

Learning to walk with God is not an easy thing... and it can only happen if God is there.

Mostly SnuP I would say people need to learn how to pray just for starters wouldn't you? Sad how we attempt to outlaw prayer in favor of our sciences.....

People don't go to clinics to pray so it's probably a mute issue. They go there for a bandaid. What they should have done is prayed before they stepped out the door... and maybe they would have heard the Lord respond 'HELMET PLEASE'.

No one's listening. don't blame it on God.

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