Science AND a Literal Genesis?

HypnoToad · May 12, 2018

Most people believe that a literal Biblical creation account and science are diametrically opposed to one another.

I came across a site with this FAQ of questions from atheists about faith & science:
FAQA

Of particular interest to me (and the main point of this thread) are questions 9 & 10, where the writer states her belief in a literal reading of Genesis as well as her belief that it is in complete agreement with current scientific knowledge.

Here is the slideshow where the argument is made that science & a literal Genesis are in agreement with one another:
Six Days

I’m not saying I believe it’s correct, but it does at first glance seem to be a plausible argument. And I do think it is a good thing when science and Scripture agree with one another, which I would expect to happen most of the time given that God created the scientific principles governing the universe.

Your thoughts? Are they using good or bad science? Do you agree/disagree that it matches what we find in the Bible?

SkyWriting · May 12, 2018

HypnoToad said:
Your thoughts? Are they using good or bad science? Do you agree/disagree that it matches what we find in the Bible?

I think the 6 day creation refers to the creation of Paradise and the Garden, but not where we exist now. This world may be a reflection of that original paradise but man was kicked out of that "very good" place, so we must not be there. This place is not so "very good". Death and disease is annoying here.

HypnoToad · May 12, 2018

SkyWriting said:
I think the 6 day creation refers to the creation of Paradise and the Garden, but not where we exist now. This world may be a reflection of that original paradise but man was kicked out of that "very good" place, so we must not be there. This place is not so "very good". Death and disease is annoying here.

Well, I'd say Eden was here, in this world. Things like disease was brought into existence when man sinned. I believe it's plausible that the actual physical garden was destroyed by the flood in Noah's time.

tkolter · May 13, 2018

I believe in my heart and in my conviction it was a six 24 hour day Creation with God resting the next chapter goes into detail about the Creation of Man and Woman, the Garden off Eden and other things done as stated covering the Sixth Day and after the resting at some point. I can't accept the Bible and ignore the Wonders of God the Use of divine overt power.

HypnoToad · May 13, 2018

tkolter said:
I believe in my heart and in my conviction it was a six 24 hour day Creation with God resting the next chapter goes into detail about the Creation of Man and Woman, the Garden off Eden and other things done as stated covering the Sixth Day and after the resting at some point. I can't accept the Bible and ignore the Wonders of God the Use of divine overt power.

Ok, but the theory presented by that slideshow doesn't really conflict with that.

According to that theory, it WAS literally six days, but that was from God's perspective, because there was no other observer until the creation of man. And there's still plenty of "divine overt power" being displayed by God according to that theory.

So, if you object, what you've said so far kinda seems more like you just don't want it to be true, rather than having a reasoned objection.

But thanks for your thoughts anyway.

Colter · May 16, 2018

HypnoToad said:
Most people believe that a literal Biblical creation account and science are diametrically opposed to one another.

I came across a site with this FAQ of questions from atheists about faith & science:
FAQA

Of particular interest to me (and the main point of this thread) are questions 9 & 10, where the writer states her belief in a literal reading of Genesis as well as her belief that it is in complete agreement with current scientific knowledge.

Here is the slideshow where the argument is made that science & a literal Genesis are in agreement with one another:
Six Days

I’m not saying I believe it’s correct, but it does at first glance seem to be a plausible argument. And I do think it is a good thing when science and Scripture agree with one another, which I would expect to happen most of the time given that God created the scientific principles governing the universe.

Your thoughts? Are they using good or bad science? Do you agree/disagree that it matches what we find in the Bible?

Genesis was a pseudo-biographical account written by Israelite holy men and for an Israelite audience. They made no claims of divine inspiration. One would have to wait until someone attached a letter purportedly written by Paul to Timothy before the doctrine of the inspiration of scripture came into being.

Writing long after two important beings arrived on the earth, Adam and Eve, it was commonly assumed, in the enchanted age of the writing of Genesis, that they were the first humans.

The 6 day creation story comes from the ancient tradition that A & E spent their first 6 days observing their new garden home. On the 7th day they rested. Other parts of the redacted, edited Genesis account, show signs of pre-Adamic man on the earth. These left over fragments are validated in the fossilized remains of life found in the earth.

The record of history in the earth itself as well as matter from our solar system, bear no resemblance of the Genesis account of a young earth or 6 day creation.

HypnoToad · May 16, 2018

Colter said:
Genesis was a pseudo-biographical account written by Israelite holy men and for an Israelite audience. They made no claims of divine inspiration. One would have to wait until someone attached a letter purportedly written by Paul to Timothy before the doctrine of the inspiration of scripture came into being.

That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.

Writing long after two important beings arrived on the earth, Adam and Eve, it was commonly assumed, in the enchanted age of the writing of Genesis, that they were the first humans.

The 6 day creation story comes from the ancient tradition that A & E spent their first 6 days observing their new garden home. On the 7th day they rested. Other parts of the redacted, edited Genesis account, show signs of pre-Adamic man on the earth. These left over fragments are validated in the fossilized remains of life found in the earth.

The record of history in the earth itself as well as matter from our solar system, bear no resemblance of the Genesis account of a young earth or 6 day creation.

This makes me wonder if you actually watched the slideshow at all. The slideshow is not supporting a young earth or a 6 earth-day creation. Please don't post here if you're not going to bother with the source material.

Colter · May 16, 2018

HypnoToad said:
That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.

This makes me wonder if you actually watched the slideshow at all. The slideshow is not supporting a young earth or a 6 earth-day creation. Please don't post here if you're not going to bother with the source material.

I watched the video, they try to warp science into the YEC narrative of Genesis. Square peg round hole. Genesis was written long after the events depicted within and it gets a lot wrong.

HypnoToad · May 16, 2018

Colter said:
I watched the video, they try to warp science into the YEC narrative of Genesis. Square peg round hole. Genesis was written long after the events depicted within and it gets a lot wrong.

If you think it's trying to argue for YEC, then either you haven't watched it, or you didn't understand it.

Colter · May 16, 2018

HypnoToad said:
If you think it's trying to argue for YEC, then either you haven't watched it, or you didn't understand it.

Genesis IS YEC! The video is trying to say that maybe Gen. doesn’t mean what it says.

HypnoToad · May 16, 2018

Colter said:
Genesis IS YEC! The video is trying to say that maybe Gen. doesn’t mean what it says.

Then I am correct, you did not understand that slideshow. Further posts of the same nature will be ignored.

Job 33:6 · May 16, 2018

HypnoToad said:
Most people believe that a literal Biblical creation account and science are diametrically opposed to one another.

I came across a site with this FAQ of questions from atheists about faith & science:
FAQA

Of particular interest to me (and the main point of this thread) are questions 9 & 10, where the writer states her belief in a literal reading of Genesis as well as her belief that it is in complete agreement with current scientific knowledge.

Here is the slideshow where the argument is made that science & a literal Genesis are in agreement with one another:
Six Days

I’m not saying I believe it’s correct, but it does at first glance seem to be a plausible argument. And I do think it is a good thing when science and Scripture agree with one another, which I would expect to happen most of the time given that God created the scientific principles governing the universe.

Your thoughts? Are they using good or bad science? Do you agree/disagree that it matches what we find in the Bible?

Seems speculative.

The sun didnt become visible until the great oxidation event? Well, the great oxidation event would not have been possible, had the sun not been visible, as plants would not have caused the great oxidation event, had there not been visible sunlight.

I think that, whoever made the slide show is bending their interpretation of scripture around scientific finds.

HypnoToad · May 19, 2018

KomatiiteBIF said:
Seems speculative.

The sun didnt become visible until the great oxidation event? Well, the great oxidation event would not have been possible, had the sun not been visible, as plants would not have caused the great oxidation event, had there not been visible sunlight.

I think that, whoever made the slide show is bending their interpretation of scripture around scientific finds.

I'm trying to find more, but I did find this reference that the environment of the earliest cyanobacteria (the organisms that produced the great oxidation event) had “very little sunlight”:
Cyanobacteria

pat34lee · Jun 3, 2018

Colter said:
I watched the video, they try to warp science into the YEC narrative of Genesis. Square peg round hole. Genesis was written long after the events depicted within and it gets a lot wrong.

You think it got a lot wrong. Not me.
I don't think there is anything wrong other
than a few misspelled words and translations
that are a little off. Nothing that affects the
meaning of what it says in scripture.

joshua 1 9 · Jun 4, 2018

HypnoToad said:
Do you agree/disagree that it matches what we find in the Bible?

There is no conflict at all between Science and the Bible. History ties them together. Some of the traditional interpretations have been shown to be wrong. Science gives us the tools we need to understand our Bible.

hedrick · Jun 4, 2018

The presentation referred to in the OP uses lots of scientific phrases, but it doesn't include an actual model that could be used to produce checkable results. I'm very skeptical that that could be done.

joshua 1 9 · Jun 4, 2018

Colter said:
Genesis was written long after the events depicted within and it gets a lot wrong.

You do not understand the Ancient Hebrew language at all. God used Hebrew to create the world. That is why there is wisdom and understanding in creation. That is why we are able to understand how God Created the Heavens and the Earth. Hebrew is a symbolic language just like Chemistry uses symbols. Hebrew is a language of God just like DNA is a language that God uses for creation. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Genesis 1:3 "And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light."

There are 200,000 books in the Library of Harvard University that show us that Genesis Chapter one is accurate and true. All of Science shows us that Genesis Chapter one is accurate and true. Ch 1 talks about the beginning of the Heaven and Earth. This also helps us to understand the meaning of the word beginning. Then chapter two talks about the generations, the generation of the earth and the generation of male and female, man and women. The Genesis chapter three talks about the serpent. We think it is about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil but this is really about the serpent.

We have three words: Beginning, Generations & Serpent. NOW we have to understand the meaning of these words. It does not matter if you are looking at the Hebrew, Latin, Greek, Spanish or English --- you still have to define the word and understand the meaning of the word.

God is the Alpha and the Omega. He knows the end from the beginning. He writes every page of the book of our lives before we are born. He gives us our gifts, talents and ability that give our life meaning. Each and every one of us has a calling a reason and a purpose for our life. This is why the first word in the Bible: Beginning is so very important and to understand this word is paramount. We need to finish what we begin. It maybe difficult but God will find a way for us. There is a reward for everything we do. "every action has an equal and opposite reaction" Only with God we get back more then we give Him. In fact He can provide for us abundantly above and beyond all we would ever think or imagine. God is able to do infinitely more, exceedingly abundantly more. Eph 3:20 "Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us,"

All of the Bible can be summed in one word: LOVE. When we look at how God expresses His love: John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life." God's love is a giving love - a sacrificial love. Jesus for the Joy set before Him - endured the Cross. The Bridegroom sacrificed Himself and gave of Himself for the Bride.

joshua 1 9 · Jun 4, 2018

hedrick said:
The presentation referred to in the OP uses lots of scientific phrases, but it doesn't include an actual model that could be used to produce checkable results. I'm very skeptical that that could be done.

I have no problem with Gerald Schroeder. I endorse what he says. His teaching is based on his PhD in Physics from MIT and from his study of the Kubbalah. I have studied a little physics in college but I know a lot less about it then Schroeder does. Actually I know a lot less then my son. He is able to do the math and come up with formulas to substantiate some of the things I talk about. For example there are 7*10/27 atoms in the human body. If you used computer language or if you use the language of DNA you can store a LOT of information on the atoms of the human body that would survive cremation. You could fit all the information of the internet times 82,000 on the atoms of the human body. My son was able to do the math on that and I had someone check his results for us and they were accurate. This is why we are told that the entire universe could have started off the size of a mustard seed. In the Beginning.

Colter · Jun 5, 2018

joshua 1 9 said:
You do not understand the Ancient Hebrew language at all. God used Hebrew to create the world. That is why there is wisdom and understanding in creation. That is why we are able to understand how God Created the Heavens and the Earth. Hebrew is a symbolic language just like Chemistry uses symbols. Hebrew is a language of God just like DNA is a language that God uses for creation. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Genesis 1:3 "And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light."

There are 200,000 books in the Library of Harvard University that show us that Genesis Chapter one is accurate and true. All of Science shows us that Genesis Chapter one is accurate and true. Ch 1 talks about the beginning of the Heaven and Earth. This also helps us to understand the meaning of the word beginning. Then chapter two talks about the generations, the generation of the earth and the generation of male and female, man and women. The Genesis chapter three talks about the serpent. We think it is about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil but this is really about the serpent.

We have three words: Beginning, Generations & Serpent. NOW we have to understand the meaning of these words. It does not matter if you are looking at the Hebrew, Latin, Greek, Spanish or English --- you still have to define the word and understand the meaning of the word.

God is the Alpha and the Omega. He knows the end from the beginning. He writes every page of the book of our lives before we are born. He gives us our gifts, talents and ability that give our life meaning. Each and every one of us has a calling a reason and a purpose for our life. This is why the first word in the Bible: Beginning is so very important and to understand this word is paramount. We need to finish what we begin. It maybe difficult but God will find a way for us. There is a reward for everything we do. "every action has an equal and opposite reaction" Only with God we get back more then we give Him. In fact He can provide for us abundantly above and beyond all we would ever think or imagine. God is able to do infinitely more, exceedingly abundantly more. Eph 3:20 "Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us,"

All of the Bible can be summed in one word: LOVE. When we look at how God expresses His love: John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life." God's love is a giving love - a sacrificial love. Jesus for the Joy set before Him - endured the Cross. The Bridegroom sacrificed Himself and gave of Himself for the Bride.

I understand that an ancestor of the Jews, Abraham, was a chosen "individual". His descendants developed an nationalist-religious EGO, like Lucifer they elevated themselves high above everyone else. In Babylon they redacted their secular history, converting it to a miraculous fiction! They developed false expectations of a Jewish Messiah that didn't play out and never will.

Tragically the original gospel of Jesus was lost and replaced by a religion about Jesus. In doing so Hebrew history and the prophets were exploited leaving a gigantic theological mess which adherents must endlessly rationalize.

I understand that in the light of scientific discoveries which go contrary to the claims of the Israelites, you must defend a narrative and confuse that with faith.

joshua 1 9 · Jun 8, 2018

Colter said:
I understand that an ancestor of the Jews, Abraham, was a chosen "individual". His descendants developed an nationalist-religious EGO, like Lucifer they elevated themselves high above everyone else. In Babylon they redacted their secular history, converting it to a miraculous fiction! They developed false expectations of a Jewish Messiah that didn't play out and never will.

Tragically the original gospel of Jesus was lost and replaced by a religion about Jesus. In doing so Hebrew history and the prophets were exploited leaving a gigantic theological mess which adherents must endlessly rationalize.

I understand that in the light of scientific discoveries which go contrary to the claims of the Israelites, you must defend a narrative and confuse that with faith.

I look at Genesis chapter one I see the word: "Beginning', in Genesis ch2 I see the word: "generations", in Genesis ch3 I see the word "serpent". Also there is a discussion about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

I am trying to figure out what those three words mean and exp. the word Beginning. Some people go to the end and try to figure that out. But for me the end is in the beginning. God is the Alpha and the Omega and He knows the end from the beginning. Before we are born He has written every page of the book of our lives. We do not have to follow that book, still He has the plans for us and our lives. Each and every one of us has a calling and we decide if we are going to honor God and praise Him.

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