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Yes, I agree completely. It requires our participation, our effort, to remain in Him, cooperating with his grace according to His wisdom and purpose for man.Amen but I would add that the gifts of the Spirit are not automatic. In order to access them we must focus our mind on the Spirit otherwise we cannot discern the things of the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 2-3 Ephesians 4:17-31
Contraire. . .Yes, the love that God desires of us comes only from Him (Rom 5:5)-it's His own nature and it
defines the righteousness that accomplishes what the law cannot.
Contraire. . .And the way to obtain that love is to draw near to Him, which is the object of faith. I've come to appreciate a teaching from a 16th century believer as being simple while incomparably profound and filled with understanding of the gospel:
"At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love."
One has to understand what that means. And I've explained it. Faith is the doorway to righteousness as it's the doorway to love as it's the doorway to God, the source of love. Faith does not stand in for or replace the need for righteousness in man, it simply makes it possible, the only thing that makes it possible. It's not the rote act of faith that justifies us; it's the union with God that faith realizes that is the essence of man's justice.Neither love, righteousness nor the law can accomplish salvation, which is by faith alone (Eph 2:8-9)
Where do you get that?? That's speculation. If they loved well, as God desires, they'd be perfect, they'd have fulfilled the law. No need for Christ to come. That love comes only by virtue of the reconciliation with God that rebirth consists of.Orthodox Jews love well, but deny Christ.
The two are totally inseparable.All salvation results in love, but not all love results in salvation.
True faith is the only means of salvation (Eph 2:8-9).One has to understand what that means. And I've explained it. Faith is the doorway to righteousness as it's the doorway to love as it's the doorway to God, the source of love. Faith does not stand in for or replace the need for righteousness in man,
It is precisely that act of faith which remits our sin by the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ (Ro 3:25), which remittance of sin is justification (forensic righteousness) by that same faith, apart from works (Ro 3:28).it simply makes it possible, the only thing that makes it possible. It's not the rote act of faith that justifies us;
"Justice" (dike) is not used in the NT of righteousness--which is the meaning of "just" (dikaios).it's the union with God that faith realizes that is the essence of man's justice.
Hope and and love do not need to be added to faith, they are part of true faith.The two are totally inseparable.
As has been taught in the past, unless hope and love are added to faith then we're not even truly children of God. And, again, being a child of God is what salvation is all about.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people." Jer 31:33
How is God's law fulfilled?
"...if I have a faith that can move mountains but have not love, I am nothing." 1 Cor 13:2Hope and and love do not need to be added to faith, they are part of true faith.
That's just faith in your faith, sometimes referred to as "fiduciary faith". But it's what faith does, and what it means, that saves you. Jesus came to reconcile us with God. This reconciliation is effected via faith as He expresses and so reveals a God truly worth our believing in. That's just how it works. Faith is to be in agreement/solidarity/communion with God in a fellowship with Him of subjugation: creature to Creator. That is justice/righteousness, the way things are meant to be IOW. As we see Jesus we see God, as we believe everything Jesus said and did, we're believing God. Again:It is precisely that act of faith which remits our sin by the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ (Ro 3:25), which remittance of sin is justification (forensic righteousness) by that same faith, apart from works (Ro 3:28).
Justification is the declaration of "not guilty," due to the forgiveness of sin by faith.
Miracle-working faith is not saving faith (Mt 7:22-23)."...if I have a faith that can move mountains but have not love, I am nothing." 1 Cor 13:2
Paul is addressing Christians about the Christian life after salvation, not about the saving faith that got them there."And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love." 1 Cor 13:13
Saving faith loves.And Augustine:
"Without love faith may in deed exist, but avails nothing."
What it does is forgive your sin.That's just faith in your faith, sometimes referred to as "fiduciary faith". But it's what faith does, and what it means, that saves you.
Jesus came to reconcile us with God. This reconciliation is effected via faith as He expresses and so reveals a God truly worth our believing in. That's just how it works. Faith is to be in agreement/solidarity/communion with God in a fellowship with Him of subjugation: creature to Creator. That is justice/righteousness, the way things are meant to be IOW. As we see Jesus we see God, as we believe everything Jesus said and did, we're believing God. Again:
"Through Him you believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and glorified Him, and so your faith and hope are in God." 1 Pet 1:21
The terminology of the Scriptures and its meaning in the original languages are both adequate and authoritative to me.That fleshes out the meaning and purpose of faith more fully.
The term "justice" is used by philosophers and theologians to denote a virtue.
In the NT, that is the work of the Holy Spirit in the individual (Php 2:13), and I don't think it can be better denoted any other way.It gives us the ability to do the right thing.
It means more than that. It means that you've become a child of God now with all that implies including the Holy Spirit dwelling within you. Our salvation is directly connected to that union with God and our participation with His work in us as together now we work out our salvation.What it does is forgive your sin.
What it means is that you are saved from God's wrath (Ro 5:9) on sin at the Judgment.
You're going off of translations to begin with and other's interpretations. The historic language of the church is fine with me. The Reformers often used it as well.The terminology of the Scriptures and its meaning in the original languages are both adequate and authoritative to me.
It's both together, us and Him, with Him directing and us responding and participating, meaning that we're remaining in Him, or not.In the NT, that is the work of the Holy Spirit in the individual (Php 2:13), and I don't think it can be better denoted any other way.
Sure it is. It's reliance upon God which is where he wants us. Any miracle that results from faith is surely a work of God and so He would certainly know them.Miracle-working faith is not saving faith (Mt 7:22-23).
Paul is addressing Christians about the Christian life after salvation, not about the saving faith that got them there.
As you come to understand the gospel better, as Paul did, you'll understand along with him that faith, hope, and love are all gifts of grace, and human choices as well. They don't just happen to us even though we can't make them happen ourselves. We must embrace them, and express them, and continue to do so, and that's how we become, and know that, we are children of God. It's to drink from the font of living waters, who is Christ.Saving faith loves.
No. . .salvation's (forgiveness of sin) effect (forensic righteousness, justification) means more than that.It means more than that. It means that you've become a child of God
I'm going off the definitions of the Greek words.You're going off of translations
Perhaps you could give me an example of the Reformation use of "justice" to mean righteousness.to begin with and other's interpretations. The historic language of the church is fine with me. The Reformers often used it as well.
It's God working it in us to act it out (Php 2:13).It's both together, us and Him, with Him directing and us responding and participating, meaning that we're remaining in Him, or not.
Review Mt 7:22-23 again.Sure it is.
Does anyone think otherwise?It's reliance upon God which is where he wants us. Any miracle that results from faith is surely a work of God and so He would certainly know them.
faith, hope, and love are all gifts of grace,
Kinda' like breathing is a human choice.and human choices as well.
As I said, it means more than that, not less than that as if forgiveness is excluded. When a person is justified, they are forgiven,, washed, cleansed, made new creations with new hearts and spirits, now children of God enabled by His grace to live as children of God should.No. . .salvation's (forgiveness of sin) effect (forensic righteousness, justification) means more than that.
And justice is an appropriate translation there. Either way its all translation and interpretation unless we have the original manuscript and can speak the original language and can know the original author's intention.I'm going off the definitions of the Greek words.
The terms are just part of classical western scholarship where the Latin language and usage prevailed. Luther, commenting on his "Tower Experience" where he came to understand that "justice" as used in the bible was often referring to a good thing, the righteousness which He gives to man by faith (whether imputed or otherwise, incidentally), rather than strictly the source of judgment and condemnation. If you understand what really happened to Luther, he came to know that God is on our side even if he understood it imperfectly, as he claims that Augustine did.. This can take time in any case-we begin with the idea that God is angry, distant, aloof in His superiority, controlling, and perhaps preferring to send us to hell-sort of the attitude humans have with each other when we play God.Perhaps you could give me an example of the Reformation use of "justice" to mean righteousness.
While we work it out with Him, in fear and trembling. (Phil 2:12)It's God working it in us to act it out (Php 2:13).
Clare, God would've had to have made the miracles possible if they were the product of faith!!! So He most certainly would've known them-and they would've been His! As it is, you added the term "faith" into the mix. Do you really think they had faith?Review Mt 7:22-23 again.
Some seem confused as to what they are and how they work in us whereas the church in any case long ago worked out the fact that they are supernatural virtues given, which we are unable to possess on our own. Either way, as I said, they are both gifts of grace-and human choices to accept and act upon those gifts.Does anyone think otherwise?
In a sense, because if we could stop breathing, as we can refuse to accept grace, then we would die. As it is, we can refuse to accept those gifts, as we can refuse to accept any gift, and then we do die, or remain dead, because of it.Kinda' like breathing is a human choice.
The Greek dikaiosis (justification) is a declaration, a sentence, a pronouncement of "not guilty," a right standing with God, as the result of that same faith (Ro 3:28) which saved them (Eph 2:8-9).As I said, it means more than that, not less than that as if forgiveness is excluded. When a person is justified, they are forgiven,
Where do we find "justice" used as the above elsewhere in the NT?, washed, cleansed, made new creations with new hearts and spirits, now children of God enabled by His grace to live as children of God should.
And justice is an appropriate translation there.
Oh, wow!Clare, God would've had to have made the miracles possible if they were the product of faith!!! So He most certainly would've known them
Example of the Reformation use of "justice" to mean righteousness?As I said, it means more than that, not less than that as if forgiveness is excluded. When a person is justified, they are forgiven,, washed, cleansed, made new creations with new hearts and spirits, now children of God enabled by His grace to live as children of God should.
And justice is an appropriate translation there. Either way its all translation and interpretation unless we have the original manuscript and can speak the original language and can know the original author's intention.
The terms are just part of classical western scholarship where the Latin language and usage prevailed. Luther, commenting on his "Tower Experience" where he came to understand that "justice" as used in the bible was often referring to a good thing, the righteousness which He gives to man by faith (whether imputed or otherwise, incidentally), rather than strictly the source of judgment and condemnation. If you understand what really happened to Luther, he came to know that God is on our side even if he understood it imperfectly, as he claims that Augustine did.. This can take time in any case-we begin with the idea that God is angry, distant, aloof in His superiority, controlling, and perhaps preferring to send us to hell-sort of the attitude humans have with each other when we play God.
"I exalted this sweetest word of mine, "the justice of God," with as much love as before I had hated it with hate. This phrase of Paul was for me the very gate of paradise. Afterward I read Augustine's "On the Spirit and the Letter," in which I found what I had not dared hope for. I discovered that he too interpreted "the justice of God" in a similar way, namely, as that with which God clothes us when he justifies us. Although Augustine had said it imperfectly and did not explain in detail how God imputes justice to us, still it pleased me that he taught the justice of God by which we are justified."
While we work it out with Him, in fear and trembling. (Phil 2:12)
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