Salvation through Works

[Bohemian]

Do you earn Salvation through works? No! Jesus himself said that we are saved by faith. There is absolutely nothing we can do to atone for Christ's crucifiction. Christ died for that exact purpose-to forgive our sins. If we need to do good deeds to earn forgiveness than what was the point of Christ dieing for us.
What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Havoc]

The poll does not include an option for those of us who are not lost and don't need to be saved.

 

[undergroundse7en]

My thoughts are pretty much the same as yours.

 

[undergroundse7en]

same as bohemian not havoc. that one wasn't up while i was typing

 

[chilehed]

No, we are saved by grace through faith. But faith isn't mere intellectual assent, it's an act of the will in turning towards God.

 

[Bohemian]

The poll does not include an option for those of us who are not lost and don't need to be saved.

Well everyone needs to be saved, Havoc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'm better than you, because I'm not. I saying, no matter how "good" someone is they need to be saved. God Bless.

No, we are saved by grace through faith. But faith isn't mere intellectual assent, it's an act of the will in turning towards God.

True, thanks for correcting me. But who turns our will, us or the Holy Spirit? I'm saying that there is nothing WE can do to be saved. Like you said, it's by God's grace.

 

[Teh Wiccan]

I think doing good things counts for something. Whoever that serial killer was that converted before he got killed goes to heaven while a buddhist monk who is most liikely more perfect than I could ever hope to be goes to hell? Doesn't make sense.

 

[Bohemian]

I think doing good things counts for something. Whoever that serial killer was that converted before he got killed goes to heaven while a buddhist monk who is most liikely more perfect than I could ever hope to be goes to hell? Doesn't make sense.

Yeah. It doesn't make sense. And in our eyes it doesn't seem fair. That's why we need faith. We need to trust that God knows what he's doing. That buddhist monk was just as needy of salvation as the serial killer. I'm not saying this because I'm racist or hateful, but because I am just as sinful as that serial killer was. No I haven't killed anyone, but I've lied, stolen, cheated, hated, and hurt. I can't and could never follow the Ten Commandments. That's why I need to be saved from sin. I understand that this might not make sense to you, it doesn't make sense to me 100%,that's why I need faith. No matter how many times I feed the hungry, clothe the naked, house the homeless, those things won't get me to Heaven. Works could never do that. Only Jesus Christ saves me. Now, you might think, how can I love and trust in a god that is so hateful and unforgiving. He showed how much he loves not only me, but everyone when he died on that cross. I hope you find Salvation and may the Holy Spirit work in your life.
God Bless,
Mike

 

[Bohemian]

-To add on to my last post-
God says he who does good works gathers up treasure in Heaven. I'm not sure what the Heavenly equivalent is to treasure, but it's obviously something good.

 

[Bohemian]

Woops...double posted

 

[Havoc]

Well everyone needs to be saved, Havoc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'm better than you, because I'm not. I saying, no matter how "good" someone is they need to be saved. God Bless.

Yes I understand that you believe that but many people, myself included, believe differently. It's difficult to participate in a poll that begins from a position of false dichotomy.

All I'm suggesting is that, to be meaningful in an open discussion you should include a poll option for those of us who do not subscribe to your belief of "fallen man". Otherwise you might want to consider moving this to a Christian only forum where such an option wouldn't be needed.

 

[Bohemian]

Sorry if you think the poll is exclusive. I didn't intend it to be...
P.S.
But some truths can't be denied

 

[Hezmasaveyour]

Yeah, salvation is through grace.

 

[chilehed]

But who turns our will, us or the Holy Spirit? I'm saying that there is nothing WE can do to be saved. Like you said, it's by God's grace.

Oh, it's most certainly not us.

"Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life." Catholic Catechism, par. 1996

"God's free initiative demands man's free response..." CCC, par. 2002

"Faith is a personal act - the free response of the human person to the initiative of God who reveals himself. But faith is not an isolated act." CCC, par. 166


www.catholic.com

 

[Ampmonster]

i cant help but try to be good, and more importantly, try to get other to share the profound joy i have in Christ

 

[foolsparade]

Yeah. It doesn't make sense. And in our eyes it doesn't seem fair. That's why we need faith. We need to trust that God knows what he's doing. That buddhist monk was just as needy of salvation as the serial killer. I'm not saying this because I'm racist or hateful, but because I am just as sinful as that serial killer was. No I haven't killed anyone, but I've lied, stolen, cheated, hated, and hurt. I can't and could never follow the Ten Commandments. That's why I need to be saved from sin. I understand that this might not make sense to you, it doesn't make sense to me 100%,that's why I need faith. No matter how many times I feed the hungry, clothe the naked, house the homeless, those things won't get me to Heaven. Works could never do that. Only Jesus Christ saves me. Now, you might think, how can I love and trust in a god that is so hateful and unforgiving. He showed how much he loves not only me, but everyone when he died on that cross. I hope you find Salvation and may the Holy Spirit work in your life.
God Bless,
Mike

This thread probably belongs in apologetics.

So you admit that this doctrine doesn't make sense, thats why we use "faith?"
I think the terrorists would agree with you, actions mean nothing, only by our faith and servatude will we get our reward. Could anyone actually believe this is the message and legacy Jesus left behind?? I wonder why your fellow Christians do not completely agree with you. Why are there thousands of differnt Christian denominations around the world? I agree that Paul's message is that faith and grace is everything and deeds are nothing... as usual it is fairly easy find contradictions regarding this matter..

John 5:24: "He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life"

John 3:5: "Jesus answered, ‘I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.'

Ephesians 2:8,9: "For by grace are ye saved through faith…not of works.

James 2:17: "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone

Matt. 19:16-18 "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

is love thy neighbor a commandment?

"One set of preachers make salvation to consist in believing. They tell their congregations that if they believe in Christ their sins shall be forgiven. This, in the first place, is an encouragement to sin, in a similar manner as when the prodigal young fellow is told his father will pay all his debts, he runs into debt faster, and becomes the more extravagant. Daddy says he pays all, and on he goes: just so in the other case, Christ pays all, and on goes the sinner." The Life and Works of Thomas Paine Vol 9, p. 27

"Another set of preachers tell their congregations that God predestinated and selected, from all eternity, a certain number to be saved, and a certain number to be ****** eternally. If this were true, the day of judgement is past: their preaching is in vain, and they had better work at some useful calling for their livelihood. This doctrine has a direct tendency to demoralize mankind." The Life and Works of Thomas Paine, Vol 9, p.

 

[Apologist]

Oh, it's most certainly not us.

"Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life." Catholic Catechism, par. 1996

"God's free initiative demands man's free response..." CCC, par. 2002

"Faith is a personal act - the free response of the human person to the initiative of God who reveals himself. But faith is not an isolated act." CCC, par. 166


www.catholic.com

Therein lies the difference in Protestants and Catholics.
You believe your works are meritorious and we do not.

 

[Rainbow.]

Do you earn Salvation through works? No! Jesus himself said that we are saved by faith. There is absolutely nothing we can do to atone for Christ's crucifiction. Christ died for that exact purpose-to forgive our sins. If we need to do good deeds to earn forgiveness than what was the point of Christ dieing for us.
What are your thoughts on this?

I agree 100 % with you

 

[Bohemian]

This thread probably belongs in apologetics.

So you admit that this doctrine doesn't make sense, thats why we use "faith?"
I think the terrorists would agree with you, actions mean nothing, only by our faith and servatude will we get our reward. Could anyone actually believe this is the message and legacy Jesus left behind?? I wonder why your fellow Christians do not completely agree with you. Why are there thousands of differnt Christian denominations around the world?

Well, actually, I think the terrorists wouldn't agree. They think that killing us infidels gets them into paradise. That sounds like works to me. Why are there thousands of differnt Christian denominations around the world? For the most part it's only petty differences on small matters. Whether or not you drink wine or grape juice during communion isn't a matter of salvation.

 

[BInC]

I also believe that we are saved by grace, not works. However, once we are saved, we are compelled by the holy spirit to do good works. Me and my friends decided that the main reasons for this are the facts that God loves justice, and when someone sees a Christian do somthing good, it gives Christians a good name and also it might bring someone to God.