Salvation is an Experience

servant7777 · Jul 28, 2022

Revelation 3:1 is also a repeat of what we were taught in the Epistles, of anyone who lives in pleasures is dead while they live..

1 Timothy 5:6 But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.

Revelation 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

fhansen · Jul 28, 2022

servant7777 said:
I know hansen wants this spin going on ( and designed it with multiple id's, who knows how many names one can come under)

I remember his argument against me was about the Revelation churches not reaching perfection, now seems like he wants to create strife for entertainment.

What's with this "multiple ID" nonsense? My "spin" is just the gospel as understood as it was received at the beginning. I'm sorry that you've been fooled by novel silliness, private opinions and interpretations.

Ligurian · Jul 28, 2022

Ligurian said:
Render unto Caesar (the money) what belongs to Caesar... seems to be a clue. The beast is standing on the wing of Jerusalem, and it's probably his face on the coin... or some icon of his name. The second beast is the mouth of the beast, from Daniel.

servant7777 said:
Revelation is a repeat of the whole testimony of the entire scriptures.

It is simple when you know that, and others try to understand it their whole life without knowing anything that way.

It's simple when ALL you know is the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel... because Revelation belongs to this same Gospel.

servant7777 said:
The beast deceives the whole world, and many false prophets were said to do that, I guess you hear the word beast and get an image like an abominable snowman, but it is the spirit of error.

Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in My name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Christos = anointed, i.e. the Messiah, an epithet of Jesus:--Christ.

Can't come in the name Jesus Christ AND call yourself Christ.

They should have translated "Christ" as "anointed".

Ligurian said:
At the time when Revelation was written, Rome had a province called Asia... Pergamos was the seat of that province at that point in time... but part of the time, the seat was in Ephesus.

servant7777 said:
Revelations is not given for people to be fixated on it, if a person does not preach the Gospel of the Kingdom, they can understand nothing at all.

Revelation IS the Gospel of the Kingdom, just as much as Matthew and John are the Gospel of the Kingdom. Isaiah prophesied this Gospel:

Isaiah 52:3-7 For thus saith the Lord, Ye have been sold for nought; and ye shall not be ransomed with silver.[4] Thus saith the Lord, My people went down before to Egypt to sojourn there; and were carried away forcibly to the Assyrians.[5] And now why are ye here? Thus saith the Lord, Because My people was taken for nothing, wonder ye and howl. Thus saith the Lord, On account of you My name is continually blasphemed among the Gentiles.[6] Therefore shall My people know My name in that day, for I am He that speaks: I am present,[7] as a season of beauty upon the mountains, as the feet of one preaching glad tidings of peace, as one preaching good news: for I will publish thy salvation, saying, O Sion, thy God shall reign.

Matthew 10:5-7 These Twelve Ιησους sent forth and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

John 12:44-50 [49] For I have not spoken from Myself: but the Father which sent Me He gave Me a Commandment, what I should say and what I should speak.[50] And I know that His Commandment is Life Everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.KJV

Deuteronomy 18:18-19 I will raise up to them a prophet of their brethren like thee, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them as I shall Command Him. 19 And whatever man shall not hearken to whatsoever words that prophet shall speak in My name, I will take vengeance on him.LXX

Matthew 4:13-23 And Ιησους went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

fhansen · Jul 28, 2022

fhansen said:
The gospel. In any case if you think that absolute perfection is possible in this life you've failed to understand the gospel.

servant7777 said:
Revelation ( as I show every single time to you) is a repeat of everything we were warned about, it is a reminder...

2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Yes, it gets rather tiring-and sickening- dealing with false, self-appointed apostles. I'd look for another hobby.

Ligurian · Jul 28, 2022

servant7777 said:
Here this is for you:

Matthew 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

And here it is, in context:

Matthew 15:12-14 Then came His Disciples, and said unto Him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?[13] But He answered and said, Every plant which My Heavenly Father hath not planted shall be rooted up.[14] Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

John 9:39-41 And Ιησους said, For judgment I am come into this world: that they which see not might see, and that they which see might be made blind.[40] And some of the Pharisees which were with Him heard these words, and said unto Him, Are we blind also?[41] Ιησους said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Ligurian · Jul 28, 2022

servant7777 said:
Peter took part whether you disagree or not, we know so because of Peter dong the same action when alive, as he did in the Revelations

Only rookies call it "Revelations"

Ἀποκάλυψις isn't plural.

Ligurian · Jul 28, 2022

servant7777 said:
I know hansen wants this spin going on ( and designed it with multiple id's, who knows how many names one can come under)

I remember his argument against me was about the Revelation churches not reaching perfection, now seems like he wants to create strife for entertainment.

servant7777 said:
Apostle Paul is the example of doing all well, and receiving the crown of life.

Now two id's ( or one bad spirit) are discussing something they cant understand ( Revelations) for whether or not someone did perfectly.

All people here have the ability to hit the report button, and suggest things like duplicate id's to the moderators... and let them deal with it.

And the people being accused have the very same ability...

Twice in a row gets hard to overlook.

fhansen · Jul 28, 2022

Ligurian said:
All people here have the ability to hit the report button, and suggest things like duplicate id's to the moderators... and let them deal with it.

And the people being accused have the very same ability...

Twice in a row gets hard to overlook.

I have nothing to do with multiple IDs. If that was done somehow it was a sinful act tantamount to someone bearing false witness, because I've NEVER done such a thing.

Ligurian · Jul 28, 2022

servant7777 said:
I know hansen wants this spin going on ( and designed it with multiple id's, who knows how many names one can come under)

I remember his argument against me was about the Revelation churches not reaching perfection, now seems like he wants to create strife for entertainment.

servant7777 said:
Apostle Paul is the example of doing all well, and receiving the crown of life.

Now two id's ( or one bad spirit) are discussing something they cant understand ( Revelations) for whether or not someone did perfectly.

Ligurian said:
All people here have the ability to hit the report button, and suggest things like duplicate id's to the moderators... and let them deal with it.

And the people being accused have the very same ability...

Twice in a row gets hard to overlook.

fhansen said:
I have nothing to do with multiple IDs. If that was done somehow it was a sinful act tantamount to someone bearing false witness, because I've NEVER done such a thing.

You're being accused of having multiple id's by servant7777.
It's not your crime, it's his/her's.
Who's the other person being accused?

fhansen · Jul 28, 2022

Ligurian said:
You're being accused of having multiple id's by servant7777.
It's not your crime, it's his/her's.
Who's the other person being accused?

I only now understood the charge, but I believe I saw a different signature on at least one of my replies. I didn't know what it was about -and thought it was an oddity at the time. But that can only mean that someone, besides myself, changed it. And that's never happened before-in 1000's of posts. And I can only assume now that bad intentions were involved. I have no idea who but it would have to be someone within CFs I'd guess. I'll go back and see if I can find it. Or anyone making the charge should be able to to point them out.

Either way I've only maintained that perfection, perfect love, is a work of God's and a process, and one that is not so easily attained in this life. We will continue to sin to some extent IOW even as we're to be in the business of overcoming sin, by the Spirit. If one thinks they've attained perfect holiness now, just get married-you'll discover much about yourself that's not so perfect. Reality will have it's say...

Ligurian · Jul 28, 2022

servant7777 said:
All is about the Gentiles now, nothing is a bout Israel any more.

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

1 Peter 1 says Diaspora... that's not gentiles.

Taking verses out of context doesn't turn out very well.

These Hosea verses were said to the House of Israel, right before the Assyrian captivity, and Ephraim was the head of those tribes. The House of Judah was still receiving mercy until the captivity of Babylon... which you CAN see within the first 3 verses of this first quote... so we can know this is ONLY the 10-tribes, here.

Hosea 1:6-10 And she conceived again and bore a daughter. And He said to him, Call her name, Unpitied: for I will no more have mercy on the house of Israel, but will surely set Myself in array against them. ...[9] And He said, Call his name, Not My people: for ye are not My people, and I am not your God.[10] Yet the number of the children of Israel was as the sand of the sea, which shall not be measured nor numbered: and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said to them, Ye are not My people, even they shall be called the sons of the living God.(Osee,LXX)

Again, if you look at these verses in context, you CAN see it's the House of Israel being spoken to.

Hosea 2:1-23 Say to your brother, My people, and to your sister, Pitied. ...[14] Therefore, behold, I will cause her to err, and will make her as desolate, and will speak comfortably to her.[15] And I will give her possessions from thence, and the valley of Achor to open her understanding: and she shall be afflicted there according to the days of her infancy, and according to the days of her coming up out of the land of Egypt. ...[23] And I will sow her to Me on the Earth and will love her that was not loved. And will say to that which was not My people, Thou art My people. And they shall say, Thou art the Lord my God."

And here is Ephraim repenting, and being accepted, and helped by the Lord.

Jeremiah 31:18-20 I have heard the sound of Ephraim lamenting, and saying, Thou hast chastened me and I was chastened. I as a calf was not willingly taught; turn Thou me and I shall turn, for Thou art the Lord my God.[19] For after my captivity I repented, and after I knew, I groaned for the day of shame, and shewed thee that I bore reproach from my youth.
[20] Ephraim is a beloved son, a pleasing child to Me: for because My words are in him I will surely remember him: therefore I made haste to help him; I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the Lord.

There are several fulfilled prophecies pertaining only to the House of Israel... and fulfilled by Ιησους when He walked in Galilee of the tribes of Zebulun and Naphtali. There is even an excellent map showing both of these tribes touching the Sea of Galilee... ...all the way over to the Mediterranean Sea. Some people get it, some don't. Palmer's Bible Atlas has these maps.

servant7777 said:
Peter took part whether you disagree or not, we know so because of Peter dong the same action when alive, as he did in the Revelations, of stopping John bowing down to him.

not even close...

servant7777 said:
2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Acts of the Apostles 1:13-14 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter and James, and John and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James [the son] of Alphaeus and Simon Zelotes, and Judas [the brother] of James.[14] These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus and with His brethren.

Matthew 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not His mother called Mary? and His brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

Galatians 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother. (ἕτερον δὲ τῶν ἀποστόλων οὐκ εἶδον εἰ μὴ Ἰάκωβον τὸν ἀδελφὸν τοῦ Κυρίου)

John 7:1-11 After these things Ιησους walked in Galilee: for He would not walk in Jewry because the Judaeans sought to kill Him.
[2] Now the Judaeans' feast of tabernacles was at hand.[3] His brethren therefore said unto Him, Depart hence and go into Judaea, that Thy Disciples also may see the works that Thou doest.[4] For there is no man that doeth any thing in secret, and he himself seeketh to be known openly. If Thou do these things, shew Thyself to the world.[5] For neither did His brethren believe in Him.
[6] Then Ιησους said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready.[7] The world cannot hate you. But Me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.[8] Go ye up unto this feast. I go not up yet unto this feast, for My time is not yet full come.[9] When He had said these words unto them, He abode still in Galilee.
[10] But when His brethren were gone up, then went He also up unto the feast, not openly but as it were in secret.[11] Then the Judaeans sought Him at the feast and said, Where is He?

John 15:18-19 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated Me before it hated you.[19] If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Ligurian · Jul 28, 2022

servant7777 said:
Revelation 3:1 is also a repeat of what we were taught in the Epistles, of anyone who lives in pleasures is dead while they live..

1 Timothy 5:6 But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.

Revelation 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

The Sardis sin isn't about licentiousness. It's about idolotry. The sin in the Old Testament... ...is the sin in the New Testament. They don't just turn away from God, they turn to other gods and other doctrines.

Isaiah 59:21 And this shall be My Covenant with them, said the Lord: My Spirit which is upon Thee, and the words which I have put in Thy mouth shall never fail from Thy mouth, nor from the mouth of Thy seed, for the Lord has spoken it henceforth and for ever.LXX
Deuteronomy 18:18-19, John 12:48-50, Matthew 24:35

fhansen · Jul 28, 2022

Ligurian said:
John 17:8-21 For I have given unto them the words which Thou gavest Me and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from Thee and they have believed that Thou didst send Me.[9] I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which Thou hast given Me; for they are Thine. ...[20] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word;[21] That they all may be one, as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in Us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me.*

John 15:23 Ιησους answered and said unto him, If a man love Me he will keep My words and My Father will love him, and We will come unto him and make Our abode with him.

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear My voice; and there shall be one fold, one shepherd.

Matthew 10:5-7 These Twelve Ιησους sent forth and Commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:[6] But go rather to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.[7] And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

__________________________
The Father's Words and Doctrine

* Deuteronomy 18:18-19 I will raise up to them a prophet of their brethren like thee, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them as I shall Command Him.[19] And whatever man shall not hearken to whatsoever words that prophet shall speak in My name, I will take vengeance on him.LXX

Matthew 21:37-39 But last of all He sent unto them His Son saying, They will reverence My Son.[38] But when the husbandmen saw the Son they said among themselves, This is the heir: come, let us kill Him and let us seize on His inheritance.[39] And they caught Him and cast [him] out of the vineyard, and slew [him].

John 5:43 I am come in My Father's name, and ye receive Me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

John 7:16 Ιησους answered them, and said, My doctrine is not Mine, but His that sent Me.

John 12:44-50 Ιησους cried and said, He that believeth on Me, believeth not on Me but on Him that sent Me.[45] And he that seeth Me seeth Him that sent Me.[46] I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on Me should not abide in darkness.[47] And if any man hear My words and believe not, I judge him not, for I came not to judge the world but to save the world.[48] He that rejecteth Me and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.[49] For I have not spoken from Myself: but the Father which sent Me, He gave Me a Commandment, what I should say and what I should speak.[50] And I know that His Commandment is Life Everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.

John 14:24 He that loveth Me not keepeth not My sayings; and the word which ye hear is not Mine, but the Father's which sent Me.

John 17:17 Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto Him, Art thou a king then? Ιησους answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born and for this cause came I into the world: that I should bear witness unto the Truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth My voice.

So are you folks actually claiming that you're perfect, that you love perfectly, that you possess full and perfect justice/righteousness/holiness, that you're perfectly sinless, that you fully love God with your whole heart, soul, mind and strength, that your obedience is uncompromised, that you worship in Spirit and truth, etc, etc?

servant7777 · Jul 29, 2022

Ligurian said:
The Sardis sin isn't about licentiousness. It's about idolotry. The sin in the Old Testament... ...is the sin in the New Testament. They don't just turn away from God, they turn to other gods and other doctrines.

Isaiah 59:21 And this shall be My Covenant with them, said the Lord: My Spirit which is upon Thee, and the words which I have put in Thy mouth shall never fail from Thy mouth, nor from the mouth of Thy seed, for the Lord has spoken it henceforth and for ever.LXX
Deuteronomy 18:18-19, John 12:48-50, Matthew 24:35

It was already clarified, as all received one doctrine of the Gospel of Christ His wholesome words, of godliness.

Revelations ( even for a beginner) is clear to see there is nothing new taught for us, as we had all things taught for us by Christ ( He died and fulfilled all things) and then by the Apostles, walking the same way, loosing all in this life, including their lives.

Following just the book of Revelations and the old testament is not you following Christ.

It is excuse again for evil to try to cause strife as testified...

1 Timothy 6:2 And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.
3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

servant7777 · Jul 29, 2022

Anyone who states they do not follow the letters to the Gentiles, is a division maker, then we know they teach falsely..

1 Corinthians 4:11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;
12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.
14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

servant7777 · Jul 29, 2022

Ligurian said:
1 Peter 1 says Diaspora... that's not gentiles.

Taking verses out of context doesn't turn out very well.

You are a person out of context, who is against the letters written to the Gentiles. Your actions show the sane behaviour the Jews did to cause strife against the Gentiles 2000 years ago. You are exposed.

1 Peter 1 along with every single word of the entire scriptures is for the Gentiles, ( Israel has no light and are in darkness right now/unbelief of Christ who is light but the men of Israel love darkness evidently)

The wrath was come on them to the uttermost.

1 Thessalonians 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

fhansen · Jul 29, 2022

servant7777 said:
You are a person out of context, who is against the letters written to the Gentiles. Your actions show the sane behaviour the Jews did to cause strife against the Gentiles 2000 years ago. You are exposed.

1 Peter 1 along with every single word of the entire scriptures is for the Gentiles, ( Israel has no light and are in darkness right now/unbelief of Christ who is light but the men of Israel love darkness evidently)

The wrath was come on them to the uttermost.

1 Thessalonians 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

So I just have to know-and will ask you the same question.

Are you actually claiming that you're perfect, that you love perfectly, that you possess full and perfect justice/righteousness/holiness, that you're perfectly sinless, that you fully love God with your whole heart, soul, mind and strength, that your obedience is uncompromised, that you worship totally in Spirit and truth, etc, etc?

servant7777 · Jul 30, 2022

Gods word is faithful, how can God say His love is perfected in us, and it not be believed, without us being unfaithful ?

1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

servant7777 · Jul 30, 2022

fhansen said:
Are you actually claiming that you're perfect, that you love perfectly, that you possess full and perfect justice/righteousness/holiness, that you're perfectly sinless, that you fully love God with your whole heart, soul, mind and strength, that your obedience is uncompromised, that you worship totally in Spirit and truth, etc, etc?

Everything is perfect, fruit, faith and love, Spirit and holiness..

Abraham's faith was made perfect, Gods love is perfected in us, faith works by love.

perfect love and perfect faith.

To produce perfect fruits of the perfect Spirit in perfect holiness.

2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Luke 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

Revelation 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

2 Corinthians 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

fhansen · Jul 30, 2022

servant7777 said:
Everything is perfect, fruit, faith and love, Spirit and holiness..

Abraham's faith was made perfect, Gods love is perfected in us, faith works by love.

perfect love and perfect faith.

To produce perfect fruits of the perfect Spirit in perfect holiness.

2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Luke 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

Revelation 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

2 Corinthians 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

So you don’t see yourself as being perfected but as already perfect? You have no sin, no desire to sin? You’re always obedient, with never a stray thought or word; the inside is as clean as the outside, no pride left to struggle with? Harm is never done to neighbor in any way.

I once had an AOG pastor who said that about himself-and I think he believed it. Later he would commit marital infidelity-and it split his church, among other things.

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