Salvation anxiety

[kiddo]

Hello! I'm hoping that by telling me which is the right answer to my question, someone can help me to be 100% confident about the fundamental issue of righteous by faith or by works, thanks

Question 1:
If a man (let's say, a baptized, bible scholar) commits adultery on a Wednesday, confesses and asks for forgiveness on Thursday (with genuine sorrow for his sin) and dies on the Friday - is there a chance he'll go to heaven?

Answer 1: Yes, by grace we are saved through faith -not by works- No one is sinless so it'd be impossible for anyone to go to heaven if we had to be perfectly obedient. Jesus will stand in your place and be judged instead of you - he took what was coming to you when he died on the cross.

Answer 2: No, the fact that he committed adultery proves that he didn't live by faith (and therefore isn't saved) Living by faith means trusting in God and his law and also in God's ability to hold on to you (i.e. he'll lead you away from temptation if you ask him to)

So if this man had a relationship with Jesus he would've had faith that without the other woman (and by obeying the law instead) he would've been better off and he could have safeguarded himself against the risk of committing adultery through prayer- at the time when he may have had evil desires but hadn't actually acted on them yet.

- - -
thanks a lot for any comments or advice you may be able to give me!

 

[Princessdi]

I'll take No. #1 for $2,000, Alex. LOL!! Well, mainly because it is what the Bible says. Once he confessed, to God, that sin no longer existed.

Who here doubts that David was in relationship with God? Yet.......David was far from perfect.......Remember ALL have sinned and come short..(and most of the time it is planned........

Now about faith and works. We are "saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ", but there are works that come out, or that are proof, of that relationship which is why it is said that "Faith without works is dead". NO the works alone cannot save you, because if you have works without faith....without the relationship, they are meaningless.

Ok that's my .02....I am rarely able to be the first to respond...can't wait to see the rest of the posts......

 

[k4c]

Hello! I'm hoping that by telling me which is the right answer to my question, someone can help me to be 100% confident about the fundamental issue of righteous by faith or by works, thanks

Question 1:
If a man (let's say, a baptized, bible scholar) commits adultery on a Wednesday, confesses and asks for forgiveness on Thursday (with genuine sorrow for his sin) and dies on the Friday - is there a chance he'll go to heaven?

Answer 1: Yes, by grace we are saved through faith -not by works- No one is sinless so it'd be impossible for anyone to go to heaven if we had to be perfectly obedient. Jesus will stand in your place and be judged instead of you - he took what was coming to you when he died on the cross.

Answer 2: No, the fact that he committed adultery proves that he didn't live by faith (and therefore isn't saved) Living by faith means trusting in God and his law and also in God's ability to hold on to you (i.e. he'll lead you away from temptation if you ask him to)

So if this man had a relationship with Jesus he would've had faith that without the other woman (and by obeying the law instead) he would've been better off and he could have safeguarded himself against the risk of committing adultery through prayer- at the time when he may have had evil desires but hadn't actually acted on them yet.

- - -
thanks a lot for any comments or advice you may be able to give me!

For the child of God He says this, "Where sin abounds grace much more abounds". God is more concerned with our relationship with Him then He is about our day to day short falls. This being said, we have to be careful not to use the grace of God as a license to sin because sin will harden the heart towards God. Remember, God loves us whether we sin or not but we show our love for Him through our obedience.

Also, keep in mind that salvation is a life long work of God in our lives with many winding roads. Our biggest battle is not with sin, but rather, it's with the guilt and condemnation that we bring upon ourselves when God is not. When we see Jesus, we see the Father. Now take this truth and read the story of the woman caught in the very act of adultery. What did the Father say through Jesus?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I agree completely with my two friends on this. Sanctification is the perfection of character that we attain to through the help of the Holy Spirit...

 

[OntheDL]

Answer is number 1. However the explanation of answer is incorrect. It creates an impression that no one can overcome sin. If that's the case, why did the bible say Jesus leaves an example by committing no sin.

The question is not if you have ever sinned. The question is can you achieve victory over all sins through Christ who strengthens you. The answer is all things are possible.

Answer 1 only covered justification. That's not the complete gospel. God promises us He is faithful to forgive AND to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness. This is sanctification. If God is all powerful and He promises to cleanse you from all unrighteousness, why is it still impossible to overcome all sins when given the opportunity?

True repentance means turning away from sins and it produces good fruit. Anyone who wants to go to heaven must overcome all known/willful sins.

The obedience to the law of God is our ticket to heaven. It's with the empowering spirit, such obedience is obtained.

Justification(righteousness imputed) + Sanctification(righteousness imparted) = Glorification

Hope this helps.

Hello! I'm hoping that by telling me which is the right answer to my question, someone can help me to be 100% confident about the fundamental issue of righteous by faith or by works, thanks

Question 1:
If a man (let's say, a baptized, bible scholar) commits adultery on a Wednesday, confesses and asks for forgiveness on Thursday (with genuine sorrow for his sin) and dies on the Friday - is there a chance he'll go to heaven?

Answer 1: Yes, by grace we are saved through faith -not by works- No one is sinless so it'd be impossible for anyone to go to heaven if we had to be perfectly obedient. Jesus will stand in your place and be judged instead of you - he took what was coming to you when he died on the cross.

Answer 2: No, the fact that he committed adultery proves that he didn't live by faith (and therefore isn't saved) Living by faith means trusting in God and his law and also in God's ability to hold on to you (i.e. he'll lead you away from temptation if you ask him to)

So if this man had a relationship with Jesus he would've had faith that without the other woman (and by obeying the law instead) he would've been better off and he could have safeguarded himself against the risk of committing adultery through prayer- at the time when he may have had evil desires but hadn't actually acted on them yet.

- - -
thanks a lot for any comments or advice you may be able to give me!

 

[JohnMarsten]

I guess it takes a lot of time for the Holy Spirit to prepare ourselves. As for the salvational issue, well, I guess If he truly confessed/repented, there shouldnt be a problem, but we shouldnt take it lightly. I mean One should go like this: I commit adultery today, and tomorrow I will repent... well... in regard to such things I would rather say that the Holy Spirit will put tremendous pressure on a believer so that commiting the act will become very difficult... very....

 

[k4c]

The power that turns us from sin to righteousness is not the glory of heaven or the fear of hell because there will be things in the here now that will bring temporary satisfaction or will be more fearful than a hell at some point years down the road. The power that changes lives in the here and now is love for God.

 

[JohnMarsten]

The power that turns us from sin to righteousness is not the glory of heaven or the fear of hell because there will be things in the here now that will bring temporary satisfaction or will be more fearful than a hell at some point years down the road. The power that changes lives in the here and now is love for God.

exactly! what is more its the power of the Holy Spirit that transforms our lifes! it should (with time) become increasinly difficult to commit such an act, however, I also believe that sin doesnt happen (in regard to a believer) all of a sudden, in order for example to commit adultery it takes time to get oneself down to it... so does the disconnection with God...

 

[k4c]

exactly! what is more its the power of the Holy Spirit that transforms our lifes! it should (with time) become increasinly difficult to commit such an act, however, I also believe that sin doesnt happen (in regard to a believer) all of a sudden, in order for example to commit adultery it takes time to get oneself down to it... so does the disconnection with God...

Amen...

All sin happens in stages. First comes the thought (temptation), then comes the dwelling on the thought, then comes the preparation and planning, then the act. Each step of the way must be planned and prepared before the next step can be taken. If we love God we will listen to the Spirit during the thought phase of the process. If we are overcome in the thought phace through the weakness of the flesh there will be a broken and contrite heart that follows. God will not cast out a broken and contrite heart.

Now the other side of the coin. If the broken and contrite heart is due to worldy sorrow it will lead to death but if it's godly sorrow it will lead to life. How we determine which sorrow it is is found in the cause of the sorrow. Are you sorry that you got caught or got pregnant or got an STD? Then that's worldy sorrow but if your sorrow is coming from the fact that you hurt the heart of God or a loved one, even without pregnancy, STDs or getting caught then that's godly sorrow.

 

[JohnMarsten]

Amen...

All sin happens in stages. First comes the thought (temptation), then comes the dwelling on the thought, then comes the preparation and planning, then the act. Each step of the way must be planned and prepared before the next step can be taken. If we love God we will listen to the Spirit during the thought phase of the process. If we are overcome in the thought phace through the weakness of the flesh there will be a broken and contrite heart that follows. God will not cast out a broken and contrite heart.

Now the other side of the coin. If the broken and contrite heart is due to worldy sorrow it will lead to death but if it's godly sorrow it will lead to life. How we determine which sorrow it is is found in the cause of the sorrow. Are you sorry that you got caught or got pregnant or got an STD? Then that's worldy sorrow but if your sorrow is coming from the fact that you hurt the heart of God or a loved one, even without pregnancy, STDs or getting caught then that's godly sorrow.

well, I must say sorrow is sorrow...

 

[k4c]

well, I must say sorrow is sorrow...

Not according to 2 Corinthians 7:10.

 

[JohnMarsten]

Not according to 2 Corinthians 7:10.

I understand what you mean, but IMO one CAN lead to the other, of course there are people who are not believers and have sorrows, most likely due to wordly problems and stuff. And of course if a believer is only sorry because he or she had been caught and otherwise wouldnt have been sorry, well then this is a sign that they dont really have a relationship with the savior and dont take him seriously... As for me I still feel like I am experiencing worldly sorrow, maybe I am mistaken on that...

 

[kiddo]

Thanks so much everyone, for taking the time to answer - it's been an absolute pleasure to learn more about the heart of God.

I read about Jesus writing in the sand to get rid of the adulteress' accusers and I was so touched when he said: “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.” So that passage - and some people's responses, have really helped me to consider a more complete picture!

I understand:
that forcing yourself to do good deeds and white knuckle obedience (without a relationship with Jesus) is meaningless, and that works are a result of loving God (and wanting to give something back!)
The hard part:
is working out if it's ok to expect to be forgiven repeatedly.. (for the same thing or for doing or thinking different things) I know we're sinful creatures but that doesn't mean we're necessarily going to keep reoffending does it? because Jesus can free us from the bondage of sin.

So if I worry about not being sorry enough to stop sinning then what I should do is get closer to God shouldn't I? (read the bible, go to church, spend time in prayer - whatever works) and build on the relationship - then I'll be more thankful, humbled, feel more loved and therefore be more loving towards God, and be less likely to think it's ok to keep hurting him.

Hi Onthe DL when I read your comments:
'Anyone who wants to go to heaven must overcome all known/willful sins.' & 'The obedience to the law of God is our ticket to heaven.'
I thought "oh-oh that makes me nervous! what if I can't do it?!" ..but then I concentrated on the other parts:
'True repentance means turning away from sins and it produces good fruit.' & 'It's with the empowering spirit, such obedience is obtained'

So is the answer: Yes, the man could've been forgiven and gone to heaven because whilst he was still alive (and if he had lived longer) with the power of the holy spirit, he wasn't going to sin anymore after that. (correct?!)

Sorry guys.. (I'm a bit slow on the uptake!) I'm still not clear on whether you have to be sinless at death in order to be saved :/

 

[kiddo]

Do you think that you're are judged according to the 'trend' of your life? that is, on whether you're slowly getting closer to Jesus or perhaps slowly hardening your heart towards him as you refuse to surrender wholly to him?

How can you tell if accepting this viewpoint isn't just a way to justify your actions? (willfully committing the same sin, thinking -it's ok, I'm a work in progress and have time to change)

 

[OntheDL]

Do you think that you're are judged according to the 'trend' of your life? that is, on whether you're slowly getting closer to Jesus or perhaps slowly hardening your heart towards him as you refuse to surrender wholly to him?

How can you tell if accepting this viewpoint isn't just a way to justify your actions? (willfully committing the same sin, thinking -it's ok, I'm a work in progress and have time to change)

For your previous question, the man will never know he has achieved the state of sinlessness because if he fixes his eyes on Jesus he will always come short of His glory.

However the Bible says it is impossible for a true believer to sin if Jesus lives in him and directs his steps.

So the big pictures is to trust in Jesus, submit your will and let Him finish what He had begun. If you believe God is all powerful and faithful with His promise, then surely He will cleanse/rid all sins from your life. It's a life-long process. The focus here is the journey of transformation, not the destination of state of sinlessness. If a believer falls down like we all do, Jesus' there to help you get up and walk with Him again provided that's what the professed believer wants. Hope this makes sense.

The bible in both the OT and the NT tells us we are judged by our works. Our works invariably show who we really are. While God knows our heart and He knows who is saved and who is not, our works is the definitive proof of His justice. Satan will accuse the believers and question God's justice.

Paul wrote that when we sin (while claiming to know Jesus) we crucify Him afresh. So he urged us to make a decision for Jesus. The word 'decide' means to murder the alternative. We can get on a slippery slope by making small compromises. However, to get closer to Jesus and to invite Him to live in you, it requires a resolute and complete surrender of your will. Because He's a gentleman. He will only come in if you are 100% certain and without any reservation.

It's a process to become Christ-like. It will take a life time. That's the Christian walk. But when you are justified (confessed and repented your sins) and are being sanctified (Christ is changing your character to be like His), there is no feeling of guilt, no doubt of your salvation, no fear of the enemy, only joy and peace.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

For your previous question, the man will never know he has achieved the state of sinlessness because if he fixes his eyes on Jesus he will always come short of His glory....

It's a process to become Christ-like. It will take a life time. That's the Christian walk. But when you are justified (confessed and repented your sins) and are being sanctified (Christ is changing your character to be like His), there is no feeling of guilt, no doubt of your salvation, no fear of the enemy, only joy and peace.

There is a tension in the two above statements. I'm not sure I can agree completely with the latter statement... sister White tells us that even the 144,000 will have their conscience assailed by satan after Jesus is no longer intercessing for us and that they will be anxiously searching and praying for repentence for any unconfessed sins in their lives, even though they have been sealed.

Even though my hope is secure in the process of sanctification, if I stop feeling unworthy and have no fear of the enemy (and my own carnal heart) I am at risk of reverting back into a laodicean state, in need of nothing. Maybe I am alone in my struggle of feeling anxious that I'm not heeding the Spirits leading to the degree that I should but that keeps me leaning on His strength to carry me.

 

[OntheDL]

There is a tension in the two above statements. I'm not sure I can agree completely with the latter statement... sister White tells us that even the 144,000 will have their conscience assailed by satan after Jesus is no longer intercessing for us and that they will be anxiously searching and praying for repentence for any unconfessed sins in their lives, even though they have been sealed.

I thought someone would question me on the last statement.

The 144000 will go through a period of intense soul searching after the close of probation with Jesus no longer intercedes for them (a can of worms for non-SDAs). That experience will be unique. I don't think it applies to someone for whom Jesus is still interceding.

Even though my hope is secure in the process of sanctification, if I stop feeling unworthy and have no fear of the enemy (and my own carnal heart) I am at risk of reverting back into a laodicean state, in need of nothing. Maybe I am alone in my struggle of feeling anxious that I'm not heeding the Spirits leading to the degree that I should but that keeps me leaning on His strength to carry me.

I understand there is a constant struggle and we all have plenty. I was just relating to my experience when I'm at my happiest, it is when I decided to follow Him all the way and hold nothing back. I have almost an electric charge in my body, my eyes are brighter, my steps are lighter, there is always a smile, not a frown. It is the same experience when someone falls in love. It is when I fall short knowingly, it felt like a balloon letting out all of its air. I treasure that experience. All the negative experience I can do without, the feeling of frustration and irritation with the all the wrong things going on in the church, the feeling of isolation and rejection, the feeling of guilt when not doing the thing you should do...

When someone falls in love and is in that exclusive relationship with the special someone, nothing else seems to get in the way. David sang about it when he was abiding with the Lord in the Holy Place. That's the special experience we need. It's like a marriage. It gets bogged down by the daily chores, the fire dies down and relationship is in trouble. We need to rediscover that first love.

 

[Pythons]

There is no 100% for either / or...
...It's a combination of both WITH correct teaching.
...None of us are deserving of it either.

Matthew 7,21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity


It's obvious that "those folks" are not the ones cowering in dark corners when Christ comes....
...Those folks are at the front of the line ( i.e. they THOUGHT they were saved ).
...When in fact they were NOT.

So much for the teaching of once saved always saved....
...Or that claiming it's only by 'faith'.

 

[Stryder06]

There is no 100% for either / or...
...It's a combination of both WITH correct teaching.
...None of us are deserving of it either.

Matthew 7,21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity


It's obvious that "those folks" are not the ones cowering in dark corners when Christ comes....
...Those folks are at the front of the line ( i.e. they THOUGHT they were saved ).
...When in fact they were NOT.

So much for the teaching of once saved always saved....
...Or that claiming it's only by 'faith'.

There are those who know they're saved because they know in Who they have believed. There are others who have deceived themselves into thinking they are saved by putting their faith in their own righteousness. Notice how they all claim their works as reason for their salvation. In contrast, those who are saved, don't even look to their works, but to Christ.