Salvation and repentance

timothyu · Feb 17, 2024

throughfiierytrial said:
. This statement you pick out include the statement that he who hears my words. There is a turning from sin in believing in Jesus

Especially when those words say to turn away from the self serving ways of man and towards the ways of the Kingdom. Everything revolved around the Kingdom, not the world of man we have made in our own image.

timothyu · Feb 17, 2024

d taylor said:
Noting new here i have heard and read it, 1000's of times.

Even a bride prepares for her wedding.

throughfiierytrial · Feb 17, 2024

d taylor said:
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I do not need another book, The Gospel of John states it purpose for being written was to tell people how to have life (Eternal Life).

Only people who want to develop/create their own way to Eternal Life, would use other books of The Bible.

And where, by the way, does the book of John say its stated purpose is to tell people how to have life? All books of the Bible do that and that is our basic understanding according to Paul in II Timothy 3:15:
15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Studyman · Feb 17, 2024

d taylor said:
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You are just another in line with people who promote a works based approach to receiving Eternal Life. Noting new here i have heard and read it, 1000's of times.

Yes, every time you open your own Bible. Every time the Spirit of God Speaks through the Scriptures. You, those "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord in Matt. 7, those men Paul speaks to who profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate here the same things from God and His Son, over and over and over. Every Word of Christ I quoted for our edification that you can't even bring yourself to acknowledge, you have truly heard 1000's of times.

And yet, you don't believe Him and are working to turn those who do believe Him, away from Him. John quotes the Jesus "of the bible" who explains why this is, for those who "DO" believe His Words are Spirit and they are Life.

John 3: 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, "neither cometh to the light", lest his deeds should be reproved.

Coming to the Light, exposes a man's Sins, and would then require that this man "DO" something so as NOT to continue in Sin which would influence others to do the same. But men like their lawless life the way it is. They have their own judgments, their own righteousness, their own images of God in the likeness of some random handsome man. So they stay away from the Light "of the Bible", so as to preserve their darkness. This is why you can't even address the scriptures I posted, much less discuss them.

21 But he that "doeth" truth cometh to the light, "that his deeds" may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. (And Not Man)

For those who believe in the Jesus "of the bible", that have turned to God with all their heart, they "Come to the Light" for the very purpose of exposing the darkness they know exists in their heart. In this way the darkness is exposed, and flees, and a man can "Go and Sin no more" as the Christ of the bible teaches.

For those reading along, consider what the Jesus "of the Bible" actually teaches through John.

John 6: 44 "No man can come to me", except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath "learned" of the Father, cometh unto me.

You preach to the world that this is "works based salvation" and you preach against it.

The Scriptures call this "The Gospel of Christ". You are not the first to reject it, nor will you be the last.

John 8: 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

d taylor · Feb 17, 2024

Studyman said:
Yes, every time you open your own Bible. Every time the Spirit of God Speaks through the Scriptures. You, those "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord in Matt. 7, those men Paul speaks to who profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate here the same things from God and His Son, over and over and over. Every Word of Christ I quoted for our edification that you can't even bring yourself to acknowledge, you have truly heard 1000's of times.

And yet, you don't believe Him and are working to turn those who do believe Him, away from Him. John quotes the Jesus "of the bible" who explains why this is, for those who "DO" believe His Words are Spirit and they are Life.

John 3: 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, "neither cometh to the light", lest his deeds should be reproved.

Coming to the Light, exposes a man's Sins, and would then require that this man "DO" something so as NOT to continue in Sin which would influence others to do the same. But men like their lawless life the way it is. They have their own judgments, their own righteousness, their own images of God in the likeness of some random handsome man. So they stay away from the Light "of the Bible", so as to preserve their darkness. This is why you can't even address the scriptures I posted, much less discuss them.

21 But he that "doeth" truth cometh to the light, "that his deeds" may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. (And Not Man)

For those who believe in the Jesus "of the bible", that have turned to God with all their heart, they "Come to the Light" for the very purpose of exposing the darkness they know exists in their heart. In this way the darkness is exposed, and flees, and a man can "Go and Sin no more" as the Christ of the bible teaches.

For those reading along, consider what the Jesus "of the Bible" actually teaches through John.

John 6: 44 "No man can come to me", except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath "learned" of the Father, cometh unto me.

You preach to the world that this is "works based salvation" and you preach against it.

The Scriptures call this "The Gospel of Christ". You are not the first to reject it, nor will you be the last.

John 8: 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

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Author of this article was a member of a works based cult, below is a small copy of part of the article, here is the link to the full article: How Do You Define a Works-Salvation Cult? – Grace Evangelical Society and a link to another article on worked based cults Beware of Cults – Grace Evangelical Society Maybe these two articles will help you escape.

By Bob Wilkin Grace Evangelical Society
Cults are groups that have the following characteristics:

They reject one or more of the fundamentals of the faith (esp. justification by faith alone).
One person or group leads with absolute control.
They have other Scripture in addition to the Bible.
They often promote special revelations that the leader has received.
Special doctrines and practices not found in Scripture are promoted.
Members accept anything the leader(s) say without question. Independent thinking is a cause for expulsion.
Most cults say that they are the only true church.
Members fear being kicked out of the group.

How does that match up with your list?
I was in a cult from ages six to twenty. It had all the above characteristics except that it had no Scripture other than the Bible. It promoted an extreme form of works salvation. You could only be saved between ages five and twenty on one or two special days God had predetermined for you. If you missed your window of opportunity, you were unsavable. If you sinned even once after being saved, you lost your salvation and could never get it back.

Studyman · Feb 17, 2024

d taylor said:
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Author of this article was a member of a works based cult, below is a small copy of part of the article, here is the link to the full article: How Do You Define a Works-Salvation Cult? – Grace Evangelical Society and a link to another article on worked based cults Beware of Cults – Grace Evangelical Society Maybe these two articles will help you escape.

Well, it's for sure that you can't go to the Words of the Christ, "of the Bible" because His Words condemn your religion as has been clearly shown. And you can't go to HIS Father, because HIS Father's Words also condemn your religion. And you can't go to Paul, because Paul's teaching also exposes, and then condemns your religion. So the only place left for you to go, is to a man "Who Transforms himself into an Apostle of Christ."

My Savior saw this coming years ago and warned me of this very thing.

Jer. 23: 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. 17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

d taylor said:
By Bob Wilkin Grace Evangelical Society
Cults are groups that have the following characteristics:

They reject one or more of the fundamentals of the faith (esp. justification by faith alone).

The Spirit of the Christ "of the Bible" saw your religion coming and prepared HIS People for it.

Jam. 2: 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith "without works" is dead?

d taylor said:
One person or group leads with absolute control.

Eph. 4: 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

2 Tim. 3: 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Is God not the Father of your religion?

d taylor said:
They have other Scripture in addition to the Bible.

It is you that must seek self-proclaimed "ministers of righteousness" to justify your religion. Where have I posted "Other Scripture"? But then, you are not here to seek or establish Biblical Truth, rather, you are here to justify and promote your specific religion. Since you can't use Scriptures to advance your agenda, you must find someone who transform themselves into an apostle of Christ, whose words you can use.

Which is fine, as Paul teaches, you are free to "Yield Yourself" a servant to obey whomever you wish to obey. Maybe Wilken can save you, I don't know him. Nevertheless, I'm sticking to the Christ "of the Bible".

d taylor said:
They often promote special revelations that the leader has received.

I simply posted the Words of Christ as it appears in both your and my Bible. The only contention is that I believe what is written, and you don't. Does that make me a cult? Perhaps it places me on a different Path than you are on. A Path walked by few. But I would have no control over what Path men walk, only the path I choose.

d taylor said:
Special doctrines and practices not found in Scripture are promoted.

Nope, I haven't done that. I would point out that you reject much of what the Christ has taught. That practice is not promoted by scriptures.

d taylor said:
Members accept anything the leader(s) say without question. Independent thinking is a cause for expulsion.

Since God and His Son are my leaders, I do listen to them, and accept that they might know more about Righteousness and Salvation than Bob Wilkin.

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

I could be wrong, and Bob Wilkin might be the Messiah, and you are his disciple, and I am trusting in the wrong God.

Nevertheless, I'm sticking to the Holy Scriptures and my Faith is in the Father who inspired them, and His Son who HE sent to save me.

d taylor said:
Most cults say that they are the only true church.

I only know there is ONE church, according to Scriptures. So I believe what they say. And I don't think Bob Wilken is the head of this One Church, although he may be the head of a church.

d taylor said:
Members fear being kicked out of the group.

Paul did teach the members of the Body of the Christ "of the Bible";

Rom. 11: 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Of course, Bob and you teach another gospel, a seductive religion in which none of Paul's words here are true. And you are free to promote whatever religion you wish. I have just dedicated myself to believe the Christ of the Bible, and His Apostles I know were chosen by HIM. Bob Wilkin and you, it seems you both have transformed yourselves into Apostles of Christ. I am told to "Beware" and take Heed specifically of you guys. I would be foolish to reject the warnings. It's not personal, I have no control over what you guys preach.

d taylor said:
How does that match up with your list?

So far it fits your religion, not the Way of the Lord the Christ of the Bible advocated. Perhaps you might try applying the Christ's Words to yourself. But that would mean you would have to believe in Him. And clearly that would take change from the heart, AKA "Repentance". And you don't seem to believe in repentance. Maybe Bob can save you. I guess we will all find out some day.

d taylor said:
I was in a cult from ages six to twenty. It had all the above characteristics except that it had no Scripture other than the Bible. It promoted an extreme form of works salvation. You could only be saved between ages five and twenty on one or two special days God had predetermined for you. If you missed your window of opportunity, you were unsavable. If you sinned even once after being saved, you lost your salvation and could never get it back.

Well, some brotherly advice here. The Holy scriptures do not support the religion you were born into, and the Holy scriptures don't support the religion you have now adopted and are promoting to others.

Perhaps you might consider turning away from all of this world's religions all together, and the men who promote them like Bob and whoever those leaders of the first religion you were snared by. What have you got to lose? Why not turn to God and trust His Inspired Word for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Why not listen, and then be a "Doer" of the saying of the Christ, as HE instructs. Why do you need to adopt a religion of this world? Shall a man of God not consider the words of the Lord's Christ? How I wish you would answer that question.

Matt. 6: 1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

The choice is the same for all mankind. We can come to the Light or avoid the Light. And all that fall on this Christ shall be broken. Not a very popular marketing strategy to use to build a religious business, so you won't hear His Truth from them. Nevertheless, it is His Truth.

d taylor · Feb 17, 2024

throughfiierytrial said:
And where, by the way, does the book of John say its stated purpose is to tell people how to have life? All books of the Bible do that and that is our basic understanding according to Paul in II Timothy 3:15:
15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Ok one more reply to your post

20:30.31
And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

2nd Timothy 3;15 is being addressed to a believer (Timothy) stating that the scriptures (Tanakh) will make Timothy wise to deliverance (from persecution) read verse 11 persecutions, afflictions, which happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra—what persecutions I endured. And out of them all the Lord delivered me.

2nd Timothy 3:15 is not talking about Eternal Life salvation for a unbeliever

throughfiierytrial · Feb 17, 2024

d taylor said:
Ok one more reply to your post

20:30.31
And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

2nd Timothy 3;15 is being addressed to a believer (Timothy) stating that the scriptures (Tanakh) will make Timothy wise to deliverance (from persecution) read verse 11 persecutions, afflictions, which happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra—what persecutions I endured. And out of them all the Lord delivere

throughfiierytrial · Feb 17, 2024

If that is what you meant by stated purpose...a passage we sing in our church liturgy at times...you don't offer much proof that John is distinguished from the other books of the Bible. Luke wrote to Theophilus to evangelize him, in both Luke and Acts as well...the entire Bible approaches us and urgently implores us to want to be spared from the wrath of God and be saved.
II Timothy 3:15 ...Scriptures...does not at all state what you say...late and short on time. so I point you to yet another Scripture citation:
Romans 15:4-5:
For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope.
5 May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you the same attitude of mind toward each other that Christ Jesus had,

throughfiierytrial · Feb 18, 2024

throughfiierytrial said:
If that is what you meant by stated purpose...a passage we sing in our church liturgy at times...you don't offer much proof that John is distinguished from the other books of the Bible. Luke wrote to Theophilus to evangelize him, in both Luke and Acts as well...the entire Bible approaches us and urgently implores us to want to be spared from the wrath of God and be saved.
II Timothy 3:15 ...Scriptures...does not at all state what you say...late and short on time. so I point you to yet another Scripture citation:
Romans 15:4-5:
For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope.
5 May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you the same attitude of mind toward each other that Christ Jesus had,

Ant this perhaps explains salvation better...
Titus 3:3-7:
3 At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

ldonjohn · Mar 10, 2024

For the unbeliever repentance is a "change of mind" about Jesus/God. You change your mind from believing that you don't need Jesus to believing you do need him. You change your mind from believing you aren't a sinner to believing that you are a sinner who needs a savior. You change your mind from believing that God does not exist to believing that he does exist. You change your mind from believing that you can do good deeds/works to make yourself acceptable/forgiven to/by God to believing that there is nothing you can do to make yourself acceptable/forgiven to/by God. There is no repentance without the convicting/convincing work of the Holy Spirit in an unbeliever's life. Repentance for the unbeliever is a life changing event for an unbeliever when God's Spirit convinces that person that he is a sinner who needs the forgiveness that is available only through the finished work of Jesus on the cross, and that person casts his helpless hopeless self upon the message of the cross. That is repentance & faith which results in the justification of the new born-again believer. The weakest faith is saving faith if the object of that faith is the finished work of Jesus on the cross where he shed his blood and died to pay the penalty for our sins.

Salvation and repentance

timothyu

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