Sabbath?

from scratch said:

Just as soon as you stop saying Christians are under the OC or a renewed OC. That simply is not in line even with quotes we have from Jesus (God, Himself).

Click to expand...

And lo, you are doing it again.

The Sabbath observance has been done away with in Christ ! He is the True Jew's Sabbath Rest.

Col 2:


16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

RibI said:

I don't know how he can keep doing it, ask him.

Click to expand...

This is why. He thinks Galatians is best. He believes we are Judaizers and this is the conclusion of Galatians. Even if Galatians contradicts YHWH and Yahshua because


The Judaizers who “bewitched” the Galatians (3:1) were telling them that Paul’s apostleship and message were not trustworthy because he lacked official endorsement from Jerusalem. “We have our credentials from Peter!” they would say, as though the approval of men is proof that a preacher is sent of God. Paul begins his letter by affirming that his message and ministry came directly from Jesus Christ. (Note Paul’s use of “not neither” in vv. 1, 12, and 17.) He immediately spells out the Gospel that he preached.
Paul’s Gospel was centered in Christ—His death, burial, and resurrection—and not in Moses or the Law. It was a Gospel of grace that brought peace. It was a Gospel of liberty: “that He might deliver us” (v. 4). The Judaizers were bringing the churches into bondage through the Law (see 2:4; 3:13; 4:9). Christ’s death has delivered us from this present evil age and has given us a new standing in liberty (5:1ff). No wonder Paul adds, “To whom be glory for ever and ever!” (v. 5)
May we never be confused as to the content and intent of the Gospel. The Gospel is not “follow Christ and imitate His life” but “receive Christ by faith and allow Him to set you free.” There is no place in the Gospel for a salvation that is attained by keeping the Law.


Wiersbe, W. W. (1997). Wiersbe's expository outlines on the New Testament (516). Wheaton, Ill.: Victor Books.

So they take it even a step further and if you find anything in the Law or figure that the law was there for a reason and that is full of great information and you are willing to practice your Sabbath on the 7th day as per YHWH, are not willing to practice the pagan holidays of Christmas, and Easter but see the significance of practicing YHWH feast knowing that they have a deeper meaning and that the followers of the way did practice all of these it was not until the roman paganism with the advent of the universal church came along that it became wide spread to practice the day of the unconquerable sun, the day of Astarte and the day when the Son of the Sun is born. Then we must be not relying on Jesus' salvation and are enslaving ourselves to the Law. Because they are free to practice any pagan days or practices as long as their heart is in the right place because they are free to do what ever their spirit tells them because god wrote the law on their hearts. So if they feel good about praising god thru pagan ways instead of god's way it is ok even if god said it was not in the "OLD TESTAMENT" because we are "FREE" to do what ever we like of course as long as it is moral because the "spirit " would not let us feel good about doing something bad. So this is why this argument will go on forever.

from scratch said:

Now wait a minute there. If the laws regarding punishment have been nailed to the cross (are no more) and you can't be punished why bother seeking forgivness by any means?

Click to expand...

I never said those laws were nailed to the cross. Do you really read with the intend to learn or understand or simply just to find errors. Your question is also not smart. The wages of sin is death. That is the ultimate punishment for sin. In the days when Israel had no King, God have civil laws by the hand of Moses. In our day and age when we have our government's they make those civil laws. It was never God's intentional that non-religious governments rule us but since Israel decided they wanted to follow the world and have a King then their civil authority came from him. That is why when Jesus came he said to give unto Cesear what belongs to him and to God what belongs to God. The United States was founded upon 2 principles namely Civil and Religious Liberty. God's intention now is that those principles be upheld and civil powers do not make laws violating religious freedom. Back in the days of Moses there was no separation of church and state therefore God had to give laws to govern both their religious and civil behavior.

Bananna said:

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Paul the apostle most misquoted and misread.[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Col 2:8[/font][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Be careful that you don't let anyone rob you through his philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the elements of the world, and not after Messiah. [/font][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Paul's teaching against being bound up by manmade laws is more often used to negate Torah and promote "each man doing what is right in his own eyes" One can never remove a verse from its context. If one does one could prove all sorts of unbiblical ideas.[/font][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Col 2:13You were dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh. He made you alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Trespasses are the breaking of a commandment. If laws were done away with... we would be unable to sin. However Christ affirmed the whole Torah when he confirmed we were to love God and our neighbor as our selves.[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Col 2:14wiping out the handwriting in ordinances which was against us; and he has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross; [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']We see Paul teaching that what was nailed to the cross was in fact the ordinances against us... Not Torah, but rather the price of our death, remitted by the Author of life dying on our cross for us.[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Col 2:16Let no man therefore judge you in eating, or in drinking, or with respect to a feast day or a new moon or Shabbat, [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']We see Paul telling us not to let other's judge us... in context... not to be judged by human laws about how we must keep every single part of each feast, in and out of Israel manmade laws were too great a burden, not even the Israelites could keep them. New moon Sabbaths alone had so much controversy even as it does today:[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']how to sight the new moon in Jerusalem [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']how to determine the beginning of God's calendar [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']if a Gentile is allowed to keep a Seventh day Sabbath in Israel[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']if they are not in a Jewish home... [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']The list is extensive and argumentative. They are shadows that teach us about what is to come... they are not to be an argument that keeps people from loving one another and meeting to study Torah. Man's ways were never meant to negate God's commands.[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Col 2:17which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Messiah's. [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Col 2:18Let no one rob you of your prize by a voluntary humility and worshipping of the angels, dwelling in the things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']The humility would refer to certain man made traditions that were "shows of humility" but really just showing off; vainly they caused one to be puffed up rather than humble. [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Angels means messengers. It's debatable as to whether Paul is using the term to refer to the status of being a Jew...So contextually one might say Angels means... don't worship being a born Jew or Don't over venerate those bringing the gospel or Don't be seeking favors from Angelic beings/ministering spirits. The latter doesn't seem plausible for a number of reasons. It would seem more consistent to say again... don't let man made practices rule over you... but rather let God's Commands be your guide.[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Col 2:20If you died with Messiah from the elements of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to ordinances, [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Col 2:21"Don't handle, nor taste, nor touch"[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Seriously, I've seen many more people trying to use their own moral code to subject believers to manmade rules... Don't drink alcohol, don't use any bible but the "name their favorite", men don;t where kilts, women don't wear pants.... don't dance, don't refuse to eat pork...etc. [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']..... Now what human am I going to let tell me to not keep Sabbath and appointed times?[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']I don't begrudge anyone meeting to study Torah, Prophets and writings inspired by God any day including Sunday. It's just another man made custom. For some it will be of help and for some it will make them puffed up only God can judge. It's not like keeping the Seventh Day Sabbath can save them.[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Two things Yeshua says:[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Mat 5:16 Let your light so [/font][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father[/font][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] which is in heaven. [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Mat 5:17¶[/font][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:[/font][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Paul upheld this teaching and was most definitely following Torah in freedom. The Aleph Tav teaches us:[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Psalm 119:45 I will walk about in freedom, for I have sought out your precepts.[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Torah is true freedom. Sabbath on the Seventh Day is true rest. God's promises for Sabbath keepers are worth having. The blessings are worth receiving.[/font]

Click to expand...

If you want anybody to read this post you need to clean it up.

from scratch said:

Just what is is it about the word new you don't understand? The very next verse says not like. Sure seems self explanitory to me. Andof course I am referring to Jer 31:31:31, 32.

Click to expand...

What part of renewed don't you understand? It's the same as if I changed the engine of a regular car with an engine of a race car. It can be considered new not like the old, not like anything seen before, so it still comes from the old. I don't know what you don't get about that,. It seems pretty self explanatory to me. Renewed better than the old.

7steps said:

What part of renewed don't you understand?

Click to expand...

I perfectly understand the word renewed. Jeremiah does not say or intend to say renewed. Paul was probably the most learned scholar concerning the Scriptures and he uses the word kainos in quoting Jeremiah. He does no use the word neos.

So I have no idea how you gather that Jeremiah is talking about a renewed covenant. Furthermore Jeremeiah states very plainly that the new covenant is not like the old one you try to renew. Jeremiah says the covenant is different not moved. Jeremiah also changes terms form covenant to law or My law. This to me shows further seperation. I do not think that Jeremiah is interchanging terms to mean the same thing.

7steps said:

What part of renewed don't you understand? It's the same as if I changed the engine of a regular car with an engine of a race car. It can be considered new not like the old, not like anything seen before, so it still comes from the old. I don't know what you don't get about that,. It seems pretty self explanatory to me. Renewed better than the old.

Click to expand...

This play on words is rather childish. To renew is to take something that is old and make it new. In other words, you will take out whatever has to be removed and replace it with better parts. That is exactly what we are told in Hebrews 8 - 10. It does not mean that everything in the old has to be replaced. Hebrews 8 - 10 tells us what was replaced. The Sabbath is not mentioned and neither is the 10 commandments.

anthony55 said:

The Sabbath observance has been done away with in Christ ! He is the True Jew's Sabbath Rest.

Col 2:


16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Click to expand...

The scripture your posted does not support your statement. The text is not even referring to the weekly Sabbath day. If you start from verse 14 at least you would get a better understanding.

from scratch said:

I perfectly understand the word renewed. Jeremiah does not say or intend to say renewed. Paul was probably the most learned scholar concerning the Scriptures and he uses the word kainos in quoting Jeremiah. He does no use the word neos.

So I have no idea how you gather that Jeremiah is talking about a renewed covenant. Furthermore Jeremeiah states very plainly that the new covenant is not like the old one you try to renew. Jeremiah says the covenant is different not moved. Jeremiah also changes terms form covenant to law or My law. This to me shows further seperation. I do not think that Jeremiah is interchanging terms to mean the same thing.

Click to expand...

So the laws from the first covenant were not "His Laws"? You really close your mind to the truth. Why do you think Jeremiah says that this time, we won't have to teach each other what the law is. It is because it will be in our hearts. The first time it was on stone and therefore they had to teach the law to each other. Which law would God have been referring to in Jeremiah? Why don't you tell us which law it is.

from scratch said:

I perfectly understand the word renewed. Jeremiah does not say or intend to say renewed. Paul was probably the most learned scholar concerning the Scriptures and he uses the word kainos in quoting Jeremiah. He does no use the word neos.

So I have no idea how you gather that Jeremiah is talking about a renewed covenant. Furthermore Jeremeiah states very plainly that the new covenant is not like the old one you try to renew. Jeremiah says the covenant is different not moved. Jeremiah also changes terms form covenant to law or My law. This to me shows further seperation. I do not think that Jeremiah is interchanging terms to mean the same thing.

Click to expand...

.

Jer 31:31-34 does state a renewed Firstly, the only difference between his khä·däsh' and khä·dash' is the masoretic vowel pointing, which means absolutely nothing (He’s referring to Strong’s #H2318 and #H2319 for reference sakes) for they both look exactly the same in Paleo-Hebrew, although one is a verb (#H2318) and the other an adjective (#H2319). It should be noted that both these words are used in reference to the “New moon”. Is there a completely different moon every month? No, there isn’t. It just means it’s come around again, even though it’s still the same moon. and the Corresponding Kainos does not mean just new never existing before it can also be comparative meaning new superior than before and when taken in context with Jer 31:31-34 it is superior covenant for it to be written on our hearts.

PROPHECYKID said:

This has been your tactic from day one. I don't know if it is intentional but it is annoying. You always seem to get stuff from my posts that is not there and was never intended. If you don't believe the 10 commandments is God's law then suit yourself.

Click to expand...

Did you ask this in the post I responded to: After Jesus died to save me for my sins would I have other God's or make graven images? This prompted me to ask what god's do you think the we grace pushers are serving by worshipping on Sunday? Your church teaches that we worship satan calling him God.

Frogster is committed to pushing the issue on this very issue and so am I. We just do it differently. When you can show that verse in the NT that states we are wrong, we will continue to push this issue. Frogster has been here much longer than me. Hey bugkiller, who seems to have disappeared, also is in this group. Can't wait till he comes back if he does.

Bananna said:

Not to point out the obvious but the Seventh Day Sabbath started on the Seventh Day, long before Avraham.

Click to expand...

Where is this?

Yeshua said the Sabbath was made for man.

Click to expand...

Not in context. This is a misrepresentation of what Jesus said. I have discussed this twice in this thread. I can repeat it if necessary.

That we have more information in scripture only enhances the fact that this beautiful gift brings all sorts of blessings.

I personally like the idea that I have a special place in God's holy mountain because I join myself to God's covenant to keep Commands an Sabbaths
Isa 56:5Even to them I will give in My house And within My walls a place and a name Better than that of sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name That shall not be cut off.

but that is not why I keep Sabbath. I keep it because I love meeting with my deliverer on the day He appointed.

Click to expand...

So why do you think others worship God on Sunday? Is it because they hate and mock God? I don't think so.

Bananna said:

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Paul the apostle most misquoted and misread.[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Col 2:8[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Be careful that you don't let anyone rob you through his philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the elements of the world, and not after Messiah. [/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Paul's teaching against being bound up by manmade laws is more often used to negate Torah and promote "each man doing what is right in his own eyes" One can never remove a verse from its context. If one does one could prove all sorts of unbiblical ideas.[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Col 2:13You were dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh. He made you alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Trespasses are the breaking of a commandment. If laws were done away with... we would be unable to sin. However Christ affirmed the whole Torah when he confirmed we were to love God and our neighbor as our selves.[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Col 2:14wiping out the handwriting in ordinances which was against us; and he has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross; [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']We see Paul teaching that what was nailed to the cross was in fact the ordinances against us... Not Torah, but rather the price of our death, remitted by the Author of life dying on our cross for us.[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Col 2:16Let no man therefore judge you in eating, or in drinking, or with respect to a feast day or a new moon or Shabbat, [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']We see Paul telling us not to let other's judge us... in context... not to be judged by human laws about how we must keep every single part of each feast, in and out of Israel manmade laws were too great a burden, not even the Israelites could keep them. New moon Sabbaths alone had so much controversy even as it does today:[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']how to sight the new moon in Jerusalem [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']how to determine the beginning of God's calendar [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']if a Gentile is allowed to keep a Seventh day Sabbath in Israel[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']if they are not in a Jewish home... [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']The list is extensive and argumentative. They are shadows that teach us about what is to come... they are not to be an argument that keeps people from loving one another and meeting to study Torah. Man's ways were never meant to negate God's commands.[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Col 2:17which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Messiah's. [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Col 2:18Let no one rob you of your prize by a voluntary humility and worshipping of the angels, dwelling in the things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']The humility would refer to certain man made traditions that were "shows of humility" but really just showing off; vainly they caused one to be puffed up rather than humble. [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Angels means messengers. It's debatable as to whether Paul is using the term to refer to the status of being a Jew...So contextually one might say Angels means... don't worship being a born Jew or Don't over venerate those bringing the gospel or Don't be seeking favors from Angelic beings/ministering spirits. The latter doesn't seem plausible for a number of reasons. It would seem more consistent to say again... don't let man made practices rule over you... but rather let God's Commands be your guide.[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Col 2:20If you died with Messiah from the elements of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to ordinances, [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Col 2:21"Don't handle, nor taste, nor touch"[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Seriously, I've seen many more people trying to use their own moral code to subject believers to manmade rules... Don't drink alcohol, don't use any bible but the "name their favorite", men don;t where kilts, women don't wear pants.... don't dance, don't refuse to eat pork...etc. [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']..... Now what human am I going to let tell me to not keep Sabbath and appointed times?[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']I don't begrudge anyone meeting to study Torah, Prophets and writings inspired by God any day including Sunday. It's just another man made custom. For some it will be of help and for some it will make them puffed up only God can judge. It's not like keeping the Seventh Day Sabbath can save them.[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Two things Yeshua says:[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Mat 5:16 Let your light so [/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] which is in heaven. [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Mat 5:17¶[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Paul upheld this teaching and was most definitely following Torah in freedom. The Aleph Tav teaches us:[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Psalm 119:45 I will walk about in freedom, for I have sought out your precepts.[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Torah is true freedom. Sabbath on the Seventh Day is true rest. God's promises for Sabbath keepers are worth having. The blessings are worth receiving.[/FONT]

Click to expand...

Sure there were also traditions there... BUT.

One question, were all our sins forgiven, because the traditions were nailed to the cross, or the law?


13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross


Shows the context was torah, hence they can no longer be judged, for not keeping sabbath either.

Bananna said:

Not to point out the obvious but the Seventh Day Sabbath started on the Seventh Day, long before Avraham.

Yeshua said the Sabbath was made for man.

That we have more information in scripture only enhances the fact that this beautiful gift brings all sorts of blessings.

I personally like the idea that I have a special place in God's holy mountain because I join myself to God's covenant to keep Commands an Sabbaths
Isa 56:5Even to them I will give in My house And within My walls a place and a name Better than that of sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name That shall not be cut off.

but that is not why I keep Sabbath. I keep it because I love meeting with my deliverer on the day He appointed.

Click to expand...

Please show the obvious scripture, about when it was instituted for man. Thanks.

Bananna said:

The ones that apply to you by rank, ability, gender and station.

The use of keeping "all" commandments always means as a community. The term Echad one means for God to be one with all the community of Israel, both the Hebrews and the foreigners among them.

Click to expand...

Foreigener refers to Gentile, goyim -non Isrealites who are forbidden to partakein strictly religious rites. The sabbath is both a religious rite and a civil law aspresented in the Torah.

With greater rank one has greater responsibility to keep, because the consequences will affect your subordinantes. King David broke a command God gave only to King David and thousands died.

Click to expand...

And your example is both outside the Torah and the prophets.

Sabbath Keeping is a community responsibility.
Gathering fruit on the Sabbath might land generations upon generations in thorns and thisles both physically and spiritually.

Click to expand...

Only in Isreal and by foreigners/strangers to the covenant when within the gates of an Isrealite. See the 4th commandment Ex 20:8-11.

Bananna said:

The ones that apply to you by rank, ability, gender and station.

The use of keeping "all" commandments always means as a community. The term Echad one means for God to be one with all the community of Israel, both the Hebrews and the foreigners among them.

With greater rank one has greater responsibility to keep, because the consequences will affect your subordinantes. King David broke a command God gave only to King David and thousands died.

Sabbath Keeping is a community responsibility.
Gathering fruit on the Sabbath might land generations upon generations in thorns and thisles both physically and spiritually.

Choose blessings.
bananna

Click to expand...

Well..no one else can answer this, so I thought maybe you will.

Why did Paul use the Abrahamic cov, that is for Jew and Gentile, to ward off those who pushed the Mosaic cov, that had all the laws in it?


17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

RibI said:

I don't know how he can keep doing it, ask him.

Click to expand...

You must be off in lala land or something. This does not show how Frogster is misrepresenting or misquoting anything. I asked you a direct question. Should I not expect a direct answer relating to my question? Or should I understand you are an SDA who has no answer because they can not think for themselves?

anthony55 said:

The Sabbath observance has been done away with in Christ ! He is the True Jew's Sabbath Rest.

Col 2:


16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Click to expand...

[I'll make a short parenthesis here. There is something that crossed my mind now that I was reading the Greek version of the verse above.

The word "is" from v.17 is not in Greek thus it should be read as following: "Let no man therefore judge you in eating or in drinking or in respect of an feast or of the new moon or of the sabbath days which are a shadow of things to come but the body of Christ"

In Greek it's the same phrase as the one found in Ephesians 4:12 for example: "For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ".

I Colossians the 'body of Christ' is identified as the Church, but really ... this is so basic but I'll put the verse anyway just in case:And I was thinking ... what if that the meaning could be different? Since the verb "is" is not found in Greek the sentence could have a difference meaning. For example: "Let no man therefore judge you in eating or in drinking or in respect of an feast or of the new moon or of the sabbath days which are a shadow of things to come but the body of Christ", that is, the Church, should do the judging. Thinking about it, when he says "let no man judge you ...", well, maybe he was going to tell later who was the one going to judge. It seems pretty plausible to me since the "body of Christ is the Church" as seen in 1v18. So it could look like this: "Let no man therefore judge you [...] but [let] the body of Christ (that is, the Church) [do the judging]". I don't know much about history but perhaps outsiders were judging them regarding those things and Paul is telling them that the Church itself is to do the judging. Anyway, I am really assuming stuff here.

Anyway, this is just a thought, and I didn't really think too much about it, but it passed trough my head now. Regarding the verse in Ephesians I just checked the concordance on the word 'body' to see if there is another group of words like "the body of Christ" somewhere else in the NT to see if the Greek there is the same as in Colossians 2:17. So this is just a thought of mine, don't give it too much importance.]

PROPHECYKID said:

And lo, you are doing it again.

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What? Oh not agreeing with you. I love my liberty in Christ Jesus to much to take up the bondage of the law. And I choose to be obedient and throw it out. Gal 4:30 So sorry it sticks in your kraw.