Sabbath?

Preecher said:

His "moral law"? What would that be? What parts of God's Law could be immoral?

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Well morality is about right and wrong. Morality tells us about what sin is. The law which gives the knowledge of sin is the 10 commandments. The Moral law is the one which tells us about right and wrong alone. There were laws built upon the moral law. For instance, if a woman is caught in adultery she should be stoned. This is not a moral law but it says what will happen if you violate the moral law. Because Israel was both a spiritual and civil nation they needed civil laws as well. Laws to say what happens when do wrong and what punishment you will face. Those are like out civil laws today. Such laws are only valid for Israel at that time. When Israel began to have kings, some of these laws already began to be changed, added to or removed by those kings. In out day and age we have civil laws of our different states where we live. The civil laws of Israel back then would not apply to us today but the moral law would because right and wrong does not change. Penalties change.

PROPHECYKID said:

Well morality is about right and wrong. Morality tells us about what sin is. The law which gives the knowledge of sin is the 10 commandments. The Moral law is the one which tells us about right and wrong alone. There were laws built upon the moral law. For instance, if a woman is caught in adultery she should be stoned. This is not a moral law but it says what will happen if you violate the moral law. Because Israel was both a spiritual and civil nation they needed civil laws as well. Laws to say what happens when do wrong and what punishment you will face. Those are like out civil laws today. Such laws are only valid for Israel at that time. When Israel began to have kings, some of these laws already began to be changed, added to or removed by those kings. In out day and age we have civil laws of our different states where we live. The civil laws of Israel back then would not apply to us today but the moral law would because right and wrong does not change. Penalties change.

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Not sure I understand. Why do you say that some of God's laws are not moral, but some are? After all, a command is a command, right? Aren't we obligated to obey them all? That is, if we are under the OT laws.

Preecher said:

Not sure I understand. Why do you say that some of God's laws are not moral, but some are? After all, a command is a command, right? Aren't we obligated to obey them all? That is, if we are under the OT laws.

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There were different laws for different reasons. Not all of the laws were about what is right and wrong. Some of them were about how to deal with wrong doing. What should be done when someone committed xyz sin. That is not a law stating right and wrong therefore it is not a moral law, but it is based on the moral laws. What I am explaining to you in a realistic sense is the differences and purposes of the laws which was given. Remember that love is the center of the law and love fulfills the law.

PROPHECYKID said:

Not all of the laws were about what is right and wrong.

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I guess that's what I don't understand. How can some of God's laws be wrong? If God commands it isn't it right? It is my understanding that there are over 600 OT commands. Some of them are not right?

Preecher said:

I guess that's what I don't understand. How can some of God's laws be wrong? If God commands it isn't it right? It is my understanding that there are over 600 OT commands. Some of them are not right?

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None of God's laws are wrong. I am showing you about what the law speaks of. Some laws tells you what is right or wrong. "Thou shalt not commit adultery", lets you know that adultery is a sin. It tells you that adultery is wrong. The law which states that if a woman is caught in adultery, she should be stoned, doesn't tell you adultery is wrong. It is a law which builds upon previous knowlege that adultery is wrong. This law then tells what must be done when you have violated the law which states that adultery is wrong. Adultery will always be wrong but the immediate penalty for sin can change. Stoning as an act of penalty cannot be valid because the civil arm of the law does not uphold it. In Moses day he has to deal with both religious and civil laws because he was acting as their political and spiritual leader. Since Israel decided to get their own Kings, those kings would influence civil laws which we abide by. However, because of God's Moral law which tells us what is right and wrong, we know that adultery is a sin regardless of the civil powers of our day.

PROPHECYKID said:

Some laws tells you what is right or wrong.

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Some?

Preecher said:

Some?

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For example, a law which tells you what type of animal sacrifice to offer for a particular sin is not a moral law, it doesn't tell you what is right or wrong. That law tells you what you must do to get that sin forgiven. The sin itself would have been defined by another law.

PROPHECYKID said:

For example, a law which tells you what type of animal sacrifice to offer for a particular sin is not a moral law, it doesn't tell you what is right or wrong. That law tells you what you must do to get that sin forgiven. The sin itself would have been defined by another law.

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Honestly I see no consistency in what you are saying. A commandment of God is just that. Do you keep all of the OT laws? Or are you picking and choosing? Which Covenant are you under? New or Old?

suz85 said:

Hello
I would like to hear peoples thoughts and views on sabbath observance. Currently I am attending a seventh day adventist church, but am unsure of the necessity to keep the sabbath. I have kept it for a few years now, but am starting to question why other denominations do not? I am in a situation that has made me question it, my college study makes it unavoidable to not do on the weekend, or the option is at home and possibly suffer association consequences later. So this is the dilemma that set me to search for the real answer and not just keep the sabbath because I have been told to and it was one of the commandments, didnt jesus come to free us of these?
confused i am
Any help or your own thoughts, opinions, experience etc would be appreciated

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"The Sabbath was MADE for man and not man for the sabbath." (Mark 2:27)

The majority of professing Christians today believe that the Sabbath only began when the ten commandments were given at Sinai. Is this true? No, and we can give solid, clear Bible evidence that the Seventh day Sabbath was in effect before the ten commandments. Notice that Jesus said the Sabbath was MADE. When was it made?

Genesis 2:2-3 .....'And on the seventh day, God ended His work which He had made, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it; because that in it He had rested from all His work which God created and made.'

Why are there not just six days in a week? Because after the six days of creation work, God MADE another day, the seventh day. Now if God wanted to rest after His work of creating this earth, He could have done so without giving us another day. So why did He give us another day? Take another look at what Jesus said above. He MADE the sabbath day for man! Do you see this clear connection? Jesus said that the sabbath was made and He was pointing us back to the creation week where we can see the sabbath being made.

The only place we get the 7 day weekly cycle from is the creation week in the Bible. We can see months and years in the solar system that God put in place, but with the 7 day weekly cycle, we can only see it in the Word of God. Now what does this mean? It means we have to put our faith in God and His Word. I wonder if God intended it this way, so that He could see who were His true followers! Those who keep the seventh day sabbath of creation are putting their complete trust and faith in the Word of God.

Now let's take a look at the 4th commandment, and we will see a clear reference to the seventh day of creation being the sabbath day.

"Six days shalt thou labour and do all thy work, but the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God; in it thou shalt not do any work ... For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea and all that in them is and rested the seventh day, wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it." (Exodus 20)


DO YOU SEE? THE SEVENTH DAY OF CREATION IS THE SABBATH DAY!

The 4th commandment is so clear about what the sabbath day is. We can see that it is talking about the seventh day of creation as being the Bible sabbath. Now for some reason, many professing Christians will adamantly proclaim that the sabbath day was not instituted at creation week, and yet we have very clear Bible proof in the 4th commandment that says the SEVENTH DAY OF CREATION IS THE SABBATH DAY. Do you see the clear link between the sabbath day of the 4th commandment and the seventh day of creation? I hope so, because they are the one same day, the Bible sabbath!

Big deal!! you say, the Seventh day of creation is the sabbath, so what?! Well, do you know what this means? It means that the sabbath of the 4th commandment was instituted BEFORE sin even entered this world!! And what does THAT mean?

1. That God intended it to be observed for eternity.

2. That it could not be a "shadow" of anything.

3. That Jesus did not change or abolish it at the cross.

4. That niether the disciples nor any man could change it to another day.


You can take away the sabbath as a symbol of Israel's freedom from the bondage in Egypt, but you STILL have the sabbath of creation. You can take away the ceremonial sabbaths in the laws of Moses, but you STILL have the sabbath of creation!

Unfortunately satan has brought something into many churches today that does away with the seventh day sabbath of creation, and that is, EVOLUTION! Many professing Christians are now embracing the wicked teaching of evolution, and say that God did not create the earth in six literal days as the Bible clearly teaches, but rather that He let it evolve over a "period" of time. How do they come to this conclusion? Because they put their trust in the teachings and foolish wisdom of men, rather than in the clear teaching and great wisdom our Creator GOD.

So how is it that the majority of Christians keep the first day of the week as the sabbath day, instead of the true Bible seventh day sabbath? See who changed the sabbath for the truth on this.

Who Was the Sabbath Made For?

Was the seventh day sabbath made for the Jews, as the majority of professing Christians claim? There is so much we can get from that simple quote of Jesus above in Mark. Not only does it point us back to creation and the institution of the seventh day sabbath then, but Jesus also confirms that the sabbath was made for who? MAN, ie. ALL of mankind. Now why doesn't Jesus say that the sabbath was made for the Jews? Well, how many Jews were there at creation? None! There was MAN and WOMAN, Adam and Eve. So was the sabbath day made for the Jews? Of course not. It was MADE during creation week by God, for EVERYONE

"Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath." (Mark 2:28)

What is it that entitles Jesus to be LORD of the sabbath day? It's the fact that He is the Creator! In John 1:10 and Colossians 1:16 we find that Jesus is the Creator of this world. Which means that it was Jesus Himself who created the seventh day sabbath for mankind. This is how He is Lord of the sabbath.

Do you see this amazing Bible truth? Jesus created the heaven and earth. He created the seventh day sabbath. He never changed or abolished the seventh day sabbath during His ministry on earth, therefore the sabbath of the 4th commandment still stands and is binding on everyone today!

'I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be forever; nothing can be put to it, nor anything taken from it.' (Ecclesiastes 3:14)

There is not one word of scripture that confirms the sabbath of the 4th commandment to be abolished or changed, or any other commandments for that matter such as "You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain", "You shall not murder", "You shall not steal".

The Sabbath was instituted at creation, included in the ten commandments, kept by Jesus and his apostlesand still stands today. The first of the three angels messages points to the sabbath, warning the world to worship Him who made the heaven and earth and the seas, and by keeping the true sabbath day (not Sunday), we are acknowledging that we worship the one true God who created all things.

Jesus said that if we break one of the commandments then we are guilty of breaking them all. All of G-ds commandments are important but it is the Sabbath command that a majority of professing Christians choose to wilfully ignore and reject.

John




Sources: Mark Wells (2010)
The Sabbath Was Made For Man
The Bible Sabbath - What Day is the Sabbath?

Big Drew said:

Where is it stated that Gentiles should live as Jews? Seems to me that Paul was not a fan of Judaizers...

If someone wants to observe the Law that's fine...but I don't see it as a necessity...

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That's a pretty remarkable statement considering Paul was Jewish and preached to both Jew and Gentile including Gentile Greeks that kept Sabbath just as the Jews did and worshipped G-d in synagogues on the Sabbath.

"There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience." Hebrews 4:9-11 (New Testament!)

"The Sabbath was MADE for man and not man for the sabbath." (Mark 2:27)

Why are there not just six days in a week? Because after the six days of creation work, God MADE another day, the seventh day. Now if God wanted to rest after His work of creating this earth, He could have done so without giving us another day. So why did He give us another day? Take another look at what Jesus said above. He MADE the sabbath day for man! Do you see this clear connection? Jesus said that the sabbath was made and He was pointing us back to the creation week where we can see the sabbath being made.

Was the seventh day sabbath made for the Jews, as the majority of professing Christians claim? There is so much we can get from that simple quote of Jesus above in Mark. Not only does it point us back to creation and the institution of the seventh day sabbath then, but Jesus also confirms that the sabbath was made for who? MAN, ie. ALL of mankind. Now why doesn't Jesus say that the sabbath was made for the Jews? Well, how many Jews were there at creation? None! There was MAN and WOMAN, Adam and Eve. So was the sabbath day made for the Jews? Of course not. It was MADE during creation week by God, for EVERYONE!

John



Source: Mark Wells (2010) The Bible Sabbath - What Day is the Sabbath?

Michael Collum said:

God doesn't like sin because of what it does to us .

the following of commandments can be sinful too .

it's all about the motivation behind what you're doing .

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How can the following of G-d's commandments be sinful?

bugkiller said:

There is no reference in all of the NT showing any obligation to the ten commandments for the Christian. In fact Acts 15 proves this fact without anyfurther evidence.

The sabbath is not found outside of the law (ten commandments) anywhere in scripture. It was not instituted on the seventh day of creation either.

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"There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience." Hebrews 4:9-11 (New Testament!)


Note the words of Jesus himself in Luke and also Matthew below:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."
Matthew 5. (New Testament!)

Here Jesus is quite specifically saying that he has not come to do away with the law or the prophets and that the law shall stand until this present Earth and Universe disappear and all has been accomplished. All is a pretty big word and there can be no mistake about what the Messiah meant with this plain statement of fact. Heaven and Earth are still here! Jesus was saying he had come to fulfill the law, to fill them up or to make clear. If you read through the rest of this chapter Jesus makes very clear what the commandments are about, the true intent of the commandments not just the physical aspect of keeping the commandments but actually what it was all about and why it was so significant.

Jesus confirmed that the Law of Moses “The Old Testament and commandments” were to be observed and that he had not come to do away with them only to fulfil them.

Jesus was Jewish. The only book and law that Jesus was talking about was the Old Testament [the Tanakh] and the commandments as that is what they had in their hand at the time, the New Testament had not yet been written. Jesus followed the Law during his life all Ten Commandments Gods Law handed down to Moses on Mount Sinai for all nations to abide by and confirmed that nothing would disappear from the law. The New Testament is different because it is for individuals not nations and how they should live their lives as individuals in relation to each other. The Old Testament and New Testament are both 100% valid (the whole bible) and is what Christians should follow.

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. 2 Timothy 3:16

The above passage in 2 Timothy confirms that ALL scripture is inspired by God.

Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. 2 Peter 1:20

This confirms that all scripture was not the prophets’ or mans’ own interpretation but it was direct from God.

God’s day of rest the Sabbath has never changed, it has always remained the same and occurred from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset.


Sunday worship is not called for anywhere in the Bible. Sunday worship is Church doctrine not what Jesus said or practiced during his life. Christians are commanded to keep the Sabbath day holy (the biblical Sabbath of Friday sunset to Saturday sunset) as kept by Jesus and his disciples during their lifetimes, not any other day. Sunday worship is a false custom. Keeping the Sabbath holy is the true custom of Christ and his followers and is Gods Holy day of rest for all nations and all people who believe in him.

This is more of what Jesus said concerning the Tanakh [Old Testament] in Matthew 5:

"Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:19-21 (New Testament!)

What Jesus said was quite clear, that we must keep the Tanakh [Old Testament] and Ten Commandments, that he had not come to abolish them and that unless we obey and keep the Tanakh [Old Testament] and Commandments to a level equal to the priests and teachers of the Law "The Pharisees" then we would not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. He also confirmed that anyone who breaks the least of the Commandments and teaches others to do the same would be called "least" in the Kingdom of Heaven, and that's providing they get there in the first place. This was only if they broke the least of the Commandments! The fourth commandment is to Keep the Sabbath day holy (Friday Sunset to Saturday Sunset).

We know Jesus died for us, but some say that this all changed when he died.

"Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes." Luke 23:56 (New Testament!)

Here the women are preparing spices and perfume to put on Jesus body. Remember here that Jesus has died.

"But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment." Luke 23:56 (New Testament!)

You have to remember that the writer of this book wrote many years after Jesus died, but he is pointing out the Sabbath command right here. And these women who were taught by Jesus while he was alive, they have no new understanding about the Sabbath day. They're continuing to keep the Sabbath that they kept when Jesus was around, which is the biblical Sabbath, the 7th day Sabbath of Friday sunset to Saturday sunset. There is absolutely no change that we see here in your Bible.

You can even find more evidence in the Book of Acts which details the beginning of the New Testament Christian Church. Here in the Book of Acts you can get a look at what they were doing in that New Testament Church after Jesus' death.

"As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures" Acts 17:2 (New Testament!)

You can argue about this and say that Paul was going into the synagogue here and just dealing with Jewish people and of course the Jews were continuing to keep the Sabbath day, but what this shows is the link between the Sabbath at the beginning of time, the Sabbath at the time of Moses, the Sabbath at the time of Jesus and the Sabbath here in the New Testament time of the Church, and Paul one of the Apostles is continuing to go into the Synagogue on the Sabbath and preach about G-d and about the Scriptures. There doesn't appear to be any break in the Sabbath in the Bible!

You can argue anything you want about history and things that occurred later, but here I am looking at scripture because I am living by the Word of G-d. I believe that this is what followers of Jesus should do, is live by G-ds Word, and the record in the Word of God is that there was no change in the Sabbath. You will see this throughout your Bible from beginning to End, the Sabbath is what the Sabbath is. It continues on and on and one throughout the pages of your Bible without any major change occurring.

"Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks." Acts 18:4 (New Testament!)

The interesting thing about this is that there are some Greeks on the scene here. Paul was in Greece at this time and there may have been Jewish synagogues in Greece, but why were these Greeks going to a Jewish synagogue? Why were they not in a church or something else worshipping G-d, worshipping Christ? It seems like the Greeks are following the Jewish lead here in the keeping of the Sabbath day and going and worshipping G-d on that same day! And Paul was now there in Greece, and he says in black and white that everything is exactly the same as it has been before. He is still keeping the Sabbath Day. He is observing it and also teaching and preaching on the Sabbath Day, the Biblical Sabbath Day.

The Early Christian Church continued to keep the Biblical Sabath. But slowly over time when you get into the later part of the first century of Christianity you find some Christians moving away from the Sabbath to a Sunday observance. Some of the reasoning behind it had to do with the destruction of the Jewish temple in Jerusalem when the Romans came down hard on them. Many of the Christians who were also observing the Sabbath and holy days were also being persecuted because they worshipped in a similar manner to the Jews of that time. And some of them began to move away from the Sabbath because they were not crazy about being persecuted. Most of these people were in the Western Church. The Eastern Church continued to observe Sabbath for a lot longer than those in the Western part of the Kingdom. So when you get into the hundreds plus A.D. you start to see a movement more and more away from G-ds Holy day the Sabbath. But did G-d ever ask you to move away from this Sabbath day? Did Jesus ever say to move away from his Sabbath day? No! Absolutely not. Man said lets move away from the Sabbath and go to Sunday. Then in 325 A.D. Emperor Constantine made it a law that Sunday was the day of worship. Constantine never had any authority though to change the day of worship from G-ds Holy Day the Sabbath to a Sunday.

Throughout history there have been followers of Christ and Christians who have continued to keep the correct day the Sabbath day and there continues to be today.

Below I am quoting to you from Isaiah 66. You might not be convinced by me quoting from the Old Testament but you must realise that when the Apostles and writers of the New Testament were quoting the scriptures the only thing they were quoting from was the Old Testament.

"As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me," declares the LORD, "so will your name and descendants endure. From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD." Isaiah 66

Understand the context here, the context of that is the End Times! This is the Kingdom of G-d being set up, and he says that people are going to worship him on his Sabbath Day! What Sabbath is that? It's the Biblical Sabbath of Friday sunset to Saturday sunset, there is absolutely no doubt about it. You see this at the beginning of your bible instituted at creation, you see it with Moses, you see it with Jesus, you see it with the Apostles, we also see it in the future Kingdom! The Sabbath matters. It is the specific day that G-d wants us to observe his rest. So why not do it?

heymikey80 said:

The Sabbath has been redesignated. It's not Saturday, alone. It's today. Every day. See Hebrews 4.

You engage in Sabbath when you rest from your own willful desires and actions and look to God for your initiative.

You need to gather with other believers, though. God is to be worshipped, public worship is a periodic reminder instituted by Him for our good. You also need encouragement and need to encourage others. Organized and initiating ministry is also helped by this gathering.

They're your family. You'll be spending a long time with them. Best to get settled among them.

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That is completely incorrect and misunderstanding of scripture. Hebrews and Acts only validates that the correct day was being kept, the Sabbath Day, the Biblical Sabbath (friday sunset to saturday sunset) as instituted at creation and reafirmed to Moses at Mt Sinai through the commandments. It is G-ds specific day of rest for man to honour him.


Right the way through your Bible there is no recorded change in the Sabbath to any other day.

You see this at the beginning of your bible, you see it with Moses, you see it with Jesus, you see it with the Apostles and the Early New Covenant Church in the first Century, we also see it in the future Kingdom!


"As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me," declares the LORD, "so will your name and descendants endure. From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD."
Isaiah 66


The Sabbath matters. It is the specific day that G-d wants us to observe his rest. So why not do it?


Yom Rishon (יום ראשו&#1503, abbreviated יום א׳ = "first day" = Saturday/Sunday
Yom Sheni (יום שנ&#1497, abbr. יום ב׳ = "second day" = Sunday/Monday
Yom Shlishi (יום שליש&#1497, abbr. יום ג׳ = "third day" = Monday/Tuesday
Yom Revi’i (יום רבע&#1497, abbr. יום ד׳ = "fourth day" = Tuesday/Wednesday
Yom Chamishi (יום חמיש&#1497, abbr. יום ה׳ = "fifth day" = Wednesday/Thursday
Yom Shishi (יום שש&#1497, abbr. יום ו׳ = "sixth day" = Thursday/Friday
Yom Shabbat (יום שבת or more usually שבת - Shabbat), abbr. יום ש׳ = "Sabbath day (Rest day)" = Friday/Saturday


John

bugkiller said:

Great question especially since Peter is asked why he lived as a Gentile thus disobeying the law including the ten commandments.

bugkiller

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What Biblical evidence do you have of Peter disobeying all of G-ds commandments especially the fourth commandment to keep the Sabbath? Above you say he disobeyed the law including the ten commandments. This means that you believe he worshipped false gods and false idols, that he took the name of the true G-d in vain, that he broke Sabbath, that he didn't honour his father or mother, that he murdered, that he committed adultery, that he stole, that he beared false witness against his neighbours, that he coveted his neighbours house, wife and possessions.

Now I'm not saying Peter was perfect, but I don't believe one of Christs apostles would have been so imperfect to disobey all of G-ds commandments especially that of the Sabbath considering that Peter was Jewish and the Apostle to the Jews in Jerusalem.

Sources? References? Scripture?

from scratch said:

I disagree and think she has a ligetimate question.No sir it doesn't. It is a or the major difference in the covenants. You can't have them both as Gal 5:4 indicates, it is eather law or Jesus. Again it comes down to which covenant you like. Jesus is our sabbath rest Mat 11:28-30. Not to mention Hebrews on the subject.

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“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5 (KJ)

Jesus came to fulfil the law, to fill them up, to make them whole and clear so that we could understand it. He did not come to do away with it. Here Jesus is quite specifically saying that he has not come to do away with the law or the prophets and that the law shall stand until this present Earth and Universe disappear and all has been accomplished. All is a pretty big word and there can be no mistake about what the Messiah meant with this plain statement of fact. Heaven and Earth are still here people!

Jesus confirmed that the Law of Moses “The Old Testament and commandments” were to be observed and that he had not come to do away with them only to fulfil them.

This is more of what Jesus said concerning the Tanakh [Old Testament] in Matthew 5:

"Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5

The grace of G-d is not a license to sin.

You cannot remain ignorant in this day and Age.

The knowledge and information about the living G-d is available to all in the Holy Bible.

Yeshua offered Himself as the final sin sacrifice, but He did not die so we could go on deliberately sinning. The Bible makes it clear that there is no sacrifice for the continuous intentional sins of believers, only the unintentional. Any intentional sins you would be judged by G-d directly.

"But an individual who does something wrong intentionally, whether a citizen or a foreigner, is blaspheming ADONAI. That person will be cut off from his people." Numbers 15

"For if we deliberately continue to sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but only the terrifying prospect of Judgment, or raging fire that will consume the enemies." Hebrews 10

The above Scripture is not referring to those unclean bondages that dwell in our flesh but to the conscious choices believers make. It refers not to our unintentional sins but to those we pursue knowingly and willingly.

"They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption; for a person is slave to whatever has defeated him. Indeed, if they have once escaped the pollutions of the world through knowing our Lord and Deliverer, Yeshua the Messiah, and then have again become entangled and defeated by them, their latter condition has become worse than their former. It would have been better for them not to have known the Way of righteousness than, fully knowing, to turn from the holy command delivered to them." 2 Peter

How many of today's believers behave in a way they know is sinful and yet they go ahead and do what they feel like doing, anyway? That's because they mistakenly think Divine grace covers intentional sin. That is a huge misconception! Divine grace has made wonderful provision for unintentional sin. But there is no provision for intentional sin. The Bible tells us so.

Deliberate, premeditated sin is willful disobedience and rebellion against God. It results in severe punishment or even loss of our salvation.

Jesus didn't say, "If someone rapes your wife, give them your daughter as well," or "if someone steals your car, offer them your house too." He commands that we love our neighbour as ourselves, not more than ourselves.

Mark 7:7-9 shows that many even go so far as to worship Christ, and all in vain because they do not obey God’s commandments especially the Sabbath but follow the traditions of men by which Satan has deceived the whole world.

Jesus said:

'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.’ Revelation 3

Jesus loves us, but no sin is acceptable to Him, no matter how great or small. Like a loving parent, He will allow us to learn from our mistakes and forgive, but there comes a time when He will "draw the line" if we continue to rebel.

Has everything happened that must happen? Have heaven and earth passed away yet? If not, then Jesus never "nailed it to the cross" as many in the church have misunderstood (see Book of Romans). He gave us a chance at eternal life; not the permission to break any of His commandments or to do whatever we please.

There was no change in the law after the death of Jesus on the cross. There was no new understanding of his disciples, apostles and followers. They continued to keep the law, commandments and teachings including the Sabbath. Right the way through the Bible from the beginning to the end it is the same at creation, with Moses, with Jesus, with the Apostles and in the future kingdom.

The grace of G-d is not a license to sin.

I believe it is highly important that as a believer I follow the bible, commandments, and teachings of Jesus.

"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me." John 14:1

"Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father." John 14:9

"I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing." John 14:12

Jesus kept the Sabbath, so should we!

"If you love me, you will obey what I command." John 14:14

Jesus kept all the commandments of G-d.

"If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love." John 15:10

"Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me." John 14:21

Do you love Jesus and obey the commandments?


John

Johnnz said:

I was a bit hasty.

It is widely recognised that the initial targets for the new community were the Jewish people, so they went to where they had speaking rights to proclaim the gospel. As the apostles began to see their mission to the gentiles that would change. Paul used whatever forum was available to him. They also may have been seeking Gentile proselytes who were not as bound to Jewish law. But that custom for evangelism was not as their time of Christian worship and teaching. That soon took place on Sundays, the eighth day, signifying resurrection.

John
NZ

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There is no eighth day so I don't know where you get this from? There are seven days in a week and always have been since creation, this can not be changed. Jesus' tomb was empty on the first day of the week Yom Rishon (יום ראשו&#1503, abbreviated יום א׳ = "first day" so he would have to of risen on the Sabbath.

Why did Gentiles also keep the Sabbath while Jesus was alive and after his death in the early new covenant church? Samarians and Greeks are not Jews but Gentiles who also kept the Sabbath.

Sunday worship didn't happen for a long time after the cross and isn't called for anywhere in your Bible. G-d's Holy Day The Sabbath continued to be kept after the cross in the early new covenant church.

There is no change in the Sabbath right the way through your Bible. There is also no change in the day recorded in your Bible to a Sunday. None whatsoever. It was not sanctioned by G-d.

It was man that said to move away from it. Not Jesus or his apostles. But man deceived by Satan. Right the way through your bible there is no chance in the Sabbath from Genesis to Revelation. Bible Prophesy shows that in G-ds future kingdom we will all worship and bow down to him on the Sabbath day as per Isaiah 66.

Paul one of the Apostles is continuing to go into the Synagogue on the Sabbath and preach about G-d and about the Scriptures. There doesn't appear to be any break in the Sabbath in the Bible! The Sabbath continues on and on throughout the pages of your Bible without any major change occurring.

"Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks." Acts 18:4

What is more is that Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles and was preaching to both Jews and Greeks (Gentiles) in the synagogue on the Sabbath. Both Jew and Gentile were keeping the correct day holy, G-ds Sabbath Day (friday sunset to saturday sunset).

The movement away from what Christ taught and did during his life and what the apostles also did such as keeping the commandments including the sabbath day holy, didn't happen until the latter parts of the first century.

The Early Christian Church continued to keep the Biblical Sabbath. But slowly over time when you get into the later part of the first century of Christianity you find some Christians moving away from the Sabbath to a Sunday observance. Some of the reasoning behind it had to do with the destruction of the Jewish temple in Jerusalem when the Romans came down hard on them.

Many of the Christians who were also observing the Sabbath, holy days and feasts were also being persecuted because they worshipped in a similar manner to the Jews of that time. And some of them began to move away from the Sabbath because they were not crazy about being persecuted.

Did G-d ever ask you to move away from this Sabbath day? Did Jesus ever say to move away from his Sabbath day? No! Absolutely not. Man said lets move away from the Sabbath and go to Sunday because it was not convenient for them to follow the teachings of Christ, and to obey G-d and keep his commandments.

It actually wasn't until between the mid second century and mid third century that the big movement really got going and there was a major split away from the Sabbath and all things deemed to be Jewish such as the Old Covenant part of the Bible, The Commandments, Passover etc. This move from the Sabbath was first influenced by Origen who brought lots of charges against the Jews.

"On account of their unbelief and other insults which they heaped upon Jesus, the Jews will not only suffer more than others in the judgement which is believed to impend over the world, but have even already endured such sufferings. And the calamities they have suffered because they were a most wicked nation, which although guilty of many other sins, yet has been punished so severely for none as those that were committed against our Jesus."

Origen alagorised a lot of the OT and didn't take it literally and chose to ignore it. That's why he got it so wrong and had broken away from the teachings of Christ even who himself in the flesh and blood was Jewish.
So again you have the deicide charge coming up again which is being reinforced 150 years after Jesus death and resurrection and church father Origen is saying and reminding people that Jews are to blame and they're now in exile and don't have their own place, their own temple or anything because of their non belief., because they didn't accept the Messiah"

This was now at that point a very entirely gentile church completely seperate from the Jews. To be part of the church at that point you had to disown all Jewishness and couldn't even keep Sabbath anymore. You now had to worship on Sunday. This is where the split has really happened and is getting wider. The Jews were treated as pariahs living on the outskirts of society. This was taught across the Christian world and Roman empire at that point.

The rejection of Jewish worship was also the rejection of large tracts of the Bible as well and a rejection of the true living G-d and the teachings of Christ.

It wasn't until the fourth century in AD 364 that the day was changed officially by Man from G-d's Holy Day the Sabbath Day to the pagan day of Sunday by Augustine and the Church of Rome at the Council of Laodicea.

Augustine like Constantine and Crysostom was a mainstream guy. Augustine came up with the idea of Original sin. He also came up with the idea of a just war which is things we look at today. This is how influential they were, these were not marginal. Some good teachings came from the same mouths that spouted such bad vile things against the Jewish people.

"Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday, the Sabbath, but shall work on that day; but the Lord's day (Sunday) they shall especially honor, and, as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ."

Very nice and Christian of him!

They changed the day of rest from the Sabbath to a Sunday and labelled it the Lords Day. But which Lord? It's not the Christ of the Bible that's for sure, who kept G-ds commandments including that of the Sabbath, the day G-d specifically set aside as a holy day of rest for man at creation. They are worshipping the pagan sun god of sun day (lucifer the great deceiver trying to take Christs place) not the son of G-d Jesus Christ, and keeping the Sabbath holy.

The Early church as set up by Jesus and propogated and preached by his apostles was hijacked by a false Church with a false Christ deceiving men to turn away from G-d and his commandments.

very nice!

Preecher said:

Honestly I see no consistency in what you are saying. A commandment of God is just that. Do you keep all of the OT laws? Or are you picking and choosing? Which Covenant are you under? New or Old?

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In my very first post in response to you I pointed you to Hebrews chapters 8 - 10. It shows exactly what in the old covenant was replaced by Jesus. It also shows that in the New Covenant God puts his laws in our hearts. I am under the New Covenant. If you consider being under the New Covenant as a reason to neglect God's laws then he really cannot write them on your heart. God's holy 10 commandment law which was placed seperate from the laws that Moses wrote is what God wants to write on your heart. It is his law of love. Love the lord your God will all your heart is demonstrated by the first 4 commandments. Love your neighbour and fellow men is demonstrated by the last 6 commandments. I don't need to pick and choose when the bible clearly shows us what has been done away with and what remains.

7steps said:

Funny thing my whole post that you quoted had nothing to do with two covenants it had to do with one and the renewal of it and you still asked me to identify one. And out of all of that all you focus is on which one. This is why I did not want to engage before. Because it does not matter what is said it goes nowhere. But it is so addicting.
But by the way it is same one I said you were taken out of context before. It is the renewed covenant that has not totally been completed yet.

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In your language the funny thing is that you still call chadash as renewed as Jeremiah uses it. And another funny thing is that you can not understand that the very next verse says the new covenant will not be like the one already extablished with their fathers. It says very plainly: 32Not according to the covenant. He even identifies exactly what covenant it is that he is talking about - that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; So how can it be another covenant except the one identified in Deut 4:13 as the ten commandments written on stone?

Since you say I have taken it out of context, please show me how. Is your next argument going to be that it is only made with Israel and Judah? Are you a Jew or an MJ? I don't see many Jews on this site trying to get me to take up Judaism. I do see a few MJs which are usually Gentile gouim pretending to be Jews.

One of the most active posters on this site is a former MJ that argues against the law an for grace. He quotes the law like a Jew IOW he is very complete.

7steps said:

Funny thing my whole post that you quoted had nothing to do with two covenants it had to do with one and the renewal of it and you still asked me to identify one. And out of all of that all you focus is on which one. This is why I did not want to engage before. Because it does not matter what is said it goes nowhere. But it is so addicting.
But by the way it is same one I said you were taken out of context before. It is the renewed covenant that has not totally been completed yet.

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OK so what about it is not completed? Jesus (God) said it was MK 14:24 - And he said unto them, This is My blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.