Sabbath Discussion Thread (Split from FAQ)

The sabbath looks forward to the comming messiah. The Lord's Day prociams Jesus Christ IS the Messiah. Look at the apostles - they went to Synagogue on Saturday to teach the Jews about Jesus. However, when they gathered as Christians they did so on the day of the Resurrection - the 8th day.

I am confused.. if there are only 7 days in a week.. how is there an 8th day ?

Today at 04:29 PM Br. Max said this in Post #23

The sabbath looks forward to the comming messiah.

Click to expand...

According to some.

The Lord's Day prociams Jesus Christ IS the Messiah. Look at the apostles - they went to Synagogue on Saturday to teach the Jews about Jesus. However, when they gathered as Christians they did so on the day of the Resurrection - the 8th day.

Click to expand...

As I said, they met every day. Came later that Sunday became THE Christian meeting day.

rhuma: Sunday was always from the start of the church the day for the celebration of the Eucharist in commemoration of the resurrection of Jesus Christ which happened on that day. The Epistles of Paul, the book of Acts, the extracanonical epistle of barnabus, the Didache, and many other texts dating from the first century - some even predating the writing of the apocalypse of John - demonstrate the practice of keeping "the Lord's Day."

The Eucharist is different from the Sabbath.

Ruhama: I've always said that . I do not claim that Sunday is the Christian Sabbath. I will not claim that Sunday is the Christian SABBATH. Sunday is the Lord's day - which is the day of Christian worship from apostles onwards to modern days.

What I will ASK is this - where does God command worship on the Sabbath?

Today at 10:31 AM Br. Max said this in Post #28

What I will ASK is this - where does God command worship on the Sabbath?

Click to expand...

He doesn't, far's I know. Except of course on holidays when there's sacrifices to be made. But otherwise, no, I think you're quite right.

I am confused.. if there are only 7 days in a week.. how is there an 8th day ?

Click to expand...

The eighth day is symbolic of the Eternal Sabbath which is our rest in Christ, our participation in the Divine Nature. Sunday was seen as both the beginning of the new week, and the eighth day of the previous, which the seventh day, the traditional Sabbath foreshadowed.

God Bless,

Neal

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh! Thanks Isshinwhat... now that makes a lot more sense.. I was like.. HUh ? Eighth day. Thanks !

Missy

8th day is the NEW creation

You are welcome, Missy.

God Bless,

Neal

what is interesting is to see what happens on the 8th day in the OT.

Share it with us Br. Max. I would like to know what happened in th OT on the "8th" day.

Missy

The article I am posting comes from a Messianic Judaism site that I have learned most of what I know about Messiaic beliefs. This article deals with the Sabbath concerning Romans 14 and the 4th Commandment:
http://www.torahresource.com/English Articles/Rm 14 & Sabbath.pdf

Here is another article on the Shabbat(The Sabbath) from a another Messianic Judaism site:
http://www.messianicjewishonline.com/article1030.html

I have been doing allot of reading and find other sites and articles as I go. So if I find any other articles on this issue I will add them here. I want to do what is right in the eyes of YHWH and not Man.

Shalom and Shalom,
Tag

Br. Max said:

Ruhama: I've always said that . I do not claim that Sunday is the Christian Sabbath. I will not claim that Sunday is the Christian SABBATH. Sunday is the Lord's day - which is the day of Christian worship from apostles onwards to modern days.

What I will ASK is this - where does God command worship on the Sabbath?

Click to expand...

The key word here, I take it is...worship, right?

And in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the
commands of men. {Mark 7:7}
You shall worship YHWH your Elohim, and Him only you
shall serve. {Luke 4:8}
4th Commandment: Remember the sabbath day, to set it apart.
{Exodus 20:8}

Set it apart for what?

If you do not turn back you foot from (being away from) the
Sabbath,from doing your (own) pleasure on My set-apart day; and
shall call the Sabbath 'a delight',the set-apart day of YHWH,
'esteemed'; and shall esteem it, not doing your own ways, nor
finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words:Then you
will delight yourself in YHWH...for the mouth of YHWH hath spoken
it. Isaiah 58:13-14

This seems like a command to worship Him on His day to me. However it is also, as are all of His commands, an entreaty that IF we do what He asks we will benefit. One can not demand love, trust, or worship in the true sense of those words. Our Awesome Creator tells us through His teachings, "Torah", what is best for us. The choice is always ours whether or not we obey. The blessings of obedience can not be numbered and the consequence of disobedience is eternal separation from Him what created us.

Revelation 12
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

God is defined in the Strong's as follows:
2316 theos theh'-os of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with 3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very:--X exceeding, God, god(-ly, -ward).

Jesus Christ is defined in the Strong's as follows:
2424 Iesous ee-ay-sooce' of Hebrew origin (3091); Jesus (i.e. Jehoshua), the name of our Lord and two (three) other Israelites:--Jesus.

5547 Christos khris-tos' from 5548; anointed, i.e. the Messiah, an epithet of Jesus:--Christ.

So tell me, just from this one verse, do we obey GOD our Father who is in Heaven which HE set Commandments that are written on our hearts since Jesus Christ came along. What are the Commandments of GOD? They are the Torah and have been since HE first gave them.
And as the Messiah has said:
The Good News According to Matthew
5:17 Don't think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18 For most certainly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the Torah, until all things are accomplished. 19 Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, there is no way you will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.


So has Heaven and Earth passed away as of yet? I think not. Does the Messiah imply anywhere here that the Torah and the Prophets are to be not taught? I think not. What does it say about those who break and teach others to break the commandments? Read for yourself for the Words of the Messiah speak. Now what is the last words the Messiah says? Hmm, I would have to say we should surpass the Scribes and Pharisees. How do you do that if you don't do what they say and not what they do.

The Good News According to Matthew
23:1 Then Yeshua spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples, 2 saying, "The scribes and the Pharisees sat on Moses' seat. 3 All things therefore whatever they tell you to observe, observe and do, but don't do their works; for they say, and don't do.

Does this imply in anyway to break away from what is taught by the Pharisees and Scribes? I sure don't see any implication at all.

May the peace that transcends all understanding be with you,
Tag

Shalom Tag,
I very much appreciate your words on the keeping of the Sabbath day. I've studied this alot, as I want to please God with my life and do whatever He wants. Some people get very upset and will condemn others over this issue, but I find that the apostle Paul summed it up this way:

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

There has been much heresy in the Gentile church about the law not being kept, and I do think that in the end time days many will be surprised for not having kept it in their hearts. Along with the verses about law, though, it is good to say that love is the fulfilling of it, or that the spirit of torah is love. Nobody would break any laws if they truly loved as the scriptures say, repeatedly. The law is the greatest teacher mankind has ever had that was written down for us by God and it is FULFILLED - not done away with as you said.

Ro 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Mt 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The only part of the law abolished would be the ordinances, and perhaps you could tell me exactly what they were? My guess would be blood sacrifices and activities that took place at the temple and Holy of Holys.

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 ¶ For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

I also see the verse you gave in Revelations about those "which keep His commandments and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" as interesting and fitting with the verses in Romans 14. The two houses of modern day Israel will come from different backgrounds - having been brought up to observe different days. I believe that Ephraim and Judah are to unite in the last days to fight the beast, as Zechariah says that Ephraim will be the arrow to Judah's bow. Ephraim would be the Gentile church, and Judah the Messianic believers in Yeshua - both having one Saviour, but very different backgrounds and upbringing. Nevertheless they will have a brothers love for each other through and because of Yeshua.

Also, the verse in Matthew has something else that is interesting to consider, for it says "until all things are accomplished". My King James version says "till all be fulfilled". Now accomplished would lean towards what you said later - that surely heaven and earth haven't passed away, but fulfilled would lean more to the work that Jesus did on the cross and the fulfillment that happened when He said "it is finished", bowed His head and gave up the ghost. At that moment, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from top to bottom.

MissytheButterfly said:

Hmm, I don't know.. shouldn't it be based on fact rather than on what people "think" ? The Christians do not have a Sabbath.. Jews do.. so why not explain what the sabbath is and what the Christian day of worship is ? This is just a suggestion.. because frankly I like to deal in facts.. and I kind of feel my intelligence is insulted when someone feels they need to cater to me by sugaring up reality in other words condescending. It reminds me of what the bible says about a lukewarm spirit.. but hey that's me.

Also the question of "How are Messianics different from other Christians?" doesn't make sense.. that answer would be: Because Messianics are not Christians. A better question is "How are Messianics different from Christians." A Messianic Jew will tell you that he is a JEW not a Christian.

Missy

Click to expand...

Excuse me but the SDA (Seventh Day Adventist) Have a sabbath on Saturday and they are Christian but just oppose to Catholicism but they have a sabbath like the Jews.