Rush to the altar.

[Luther073082]

Ok let me start off by saying that I'm not trying to cut down on anyone or speak down about someone's maturity but I've become increasingly aware of a problem that I've noticed in the flock and I feel like God may be calling me to question it.

I feel like the general culture of the church is constantly on the push for young people too get married. And marriage is a good thing but not if its taken into too lightly or too quickly. But I feel the culture pushes too much causing people to enter into marriage too quickly with less consideration. The problem is especially prevlent amoung the young.

This is an unscientific study but look around CF and look at the people who are married and their ages. And look at those who are engaged. I have found an amazing number of TEENAGERS who are married. 18 or 19 and married??? How many of those will you see in secular society? Not very many I would guess.

But even further look at the numbers of them talking about marriage at that age on CF. Amazing numbers of these 18 and 19 year olds who in the United States are not old enough to drink alcohol think they are ready for marriage and are getting engaged. Well its hard to pin down the reason why they are engaged but in my opinion having been an atheist to a Christian the problem is the congreations pushing marriage way too much.

When I was an atheist I never felt pressure to be married. I just figure it would happen when I found the right person. But no sooner did I enter Christ's flock did people start to push me to be married soon. In fact quite a few people especially when I was single (my relationship is relativly new) have by some of their comments unintentionally made me feel like a complete loser for not being married! Ridiculous considering I was 23 years old when it first started happening. But yet I'm from the United States where according to Wikipedia (I know its not always accurate) is 30 for a man! 7 years younger then the average age of marriage and people where already asking why I wasn't married and where my wife was. Utterly ridiculous

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_at_first_marriage

Whats worse is that the MEDIAN age of first marriage is 27. (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005061.html)

So that means that if you take all the ages of first marriages in this country and find the middle point, it lands right on 27 years of age!!! But yet among my brothers and sisters of the faith it was this huge hurry. Many have told me that I should hurry up and get married.

But many will ask why this is a big deal. Because my friends, the age at marriage is a HUGE indicator of how successful a marriage will be.

Most researchers agree that marriages contracted at very young ages are likely to be unstable due to a "maturity effect." (Oppenheimer 1988) Young people often have inadequate self-knowledge and are uncertain about their own future prospects and potential. They are also prone to misjudge the characteristics and likely trajectories of their partners. In addition, many of their adult attributes have not yet even emerged, making it difficult for them to select a mate who will be compatible as both partners mature. A very young age at marriage is one of the best predictors of divorce.

http://www.contemporaryfamilies.org/subtemplate.php?t=pressReleases&ext=marryolder

Further more

Analyses of more recent data, however, show that this pattern no longer prevails. Using data collected in the 1990s and 2000s, I found that as age at marriage rises from the teens to the twenties, the probability of divorce decreases steadily. Beyond the late twenties, the curve flattens out, but the odds of divorce do not go up, as they did in the earlier period. While the age at marriage-marital instability curve eventually flattens, the strongly favorable effect of postponing marriage is by far the most salient pattern.

The above paragraph indicates that it does not actually hurt you to wait into your 30's to get married. Now I'm not suggesting you need to or should even wait to your 30's, God knows I don't want to wait that long to be married. But my point in that paragraph is there is no harm in waiting.

I think my point is that we need to change our culture within our church and I personally would rather discourage anyone on here from marrying at a young age. (Younger then 23) and I'm not trying to be condecending but honestly I can say looking back that 18 to 22 was 4 exteremly formative years in my life. ALOT changed and its only since about 23 or so have things really stabilized. Plus really I'm so much more mature then I was at 19. I was considered by many mature for my age at 19 and if I look back and think about the possibility of getting married at 19 it would have been bad, I wasn't mature enough then. I know thats something that someone who's 19 doesn't like to hear but sometimes you know its the truth. I'm 25, I have some experience but I'm not going to ignore someone older then me when they speak from experience.

In terms of what changed from 18 to 22. At 18 I was an atheist, at 22 my focus was on Christ. At 18 I hated dancing, by 22 I was a ballroom dancer and I had a 5th place in waltz at the National collegate ballroom dance competition under my belt. (among other awards). At 18 I was EXTREMLY introverted and somewhat shy, not anymore I love meeting and talking to people. At 18 I knew everything, at 22 I knew nothing. (Wisdom), At 18 I did not mind using cuss words, in fact they where part of my regular vocabulary. At 22 you would rarely hear a cuss word out of me. At 18 video games where my favorite pastime. At 22 I preferred to dance. At 18 I loved to watch TV and could do so for hours. At 22 I really wasn't too intersted in most of the stuff on TV.

And its ok to not be mature enough to be ready for marriage, marriage is a huge thing and I think sometimes people need to live out their lives as young adults single before they get married. Really you are still growing up in some ways, just take some time and live with that, its not personal, I was 19 once. But in many ways you are still a kid, the law won't even trust you with a bottle of beer in the US.

And plus there is no disadvantage to waiting to get married unless you are worried about kids and the biological clock. Well I think you have plenty of time to make babies when you are 23. It won't hurt any, and this person you want to marry is really the right person to marry then you will be together at that time too.

Notes:

1. I'm not trying to decry early marriages as wrong for everyone however I'm trying to point out a fact that it seems clear to me that the church quite generally seems to push young people to marriage quicker and that doing so pushes young people to make sometimes hasty decisions about marriage.

2. The biggest piece of missing information that I could not find is how church attendence and religious involvement affect the age of first marriages. I tend to think its a pretty accepted fact however you can question it if you like. I did find one source that said that evangelicals in the bible belt tend to marry younger but I found the article to be exteremly one sided and fairly anti-Christian in its interpretation of statistics so I did not include it as a source. If you wish to view it then it is.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm

Its also points out that some of it may also be due to lower income levels (Which does affect divorce rates)

3. Please discuss this, I may be wrong on some interpretations but I don't think I'm totally off base on my feelings on this. I've heard many Christians married as teens tell me that they where either A. Divorced and shouldn't have gotten married so young. or B. Still married but say it would have been easier to get married older.

4. A lot of this relies on my observations as well and I hope and belive that you will have made similar observations.

 

[Briseis]

I completely agree with you.

I think the main reason ppl in the church pressure young members to get married is because they think that we cant handle the pressure of premarital sex. There are members of CF who have said that ppl honestly told them they had to get married or ppl would start to think they are having sex with their SO, because they have been together too long and everyone knows ppl cant wait that long.

Like you explained in great detail, ppl change a lot in the 18-22 time slot. Even the most mature teenagers still have some growing up to do. Obviously, it doesnt mean it wont work if they marry young (my mom was married at 16, still happily married 32 years later), its just risky, and could end up being more difficult than necessary. If you are meant to be, you will still be together in 3 years.

 

[Leanna]

I'm sorry that you have experienced pain from the way people have treated you in regards to this issue.

I agree with much of your post, I do! I even agree with the statistics that say early marriages more likely end in divorce. Although I don't think that an early age is always the reason.

I was married at 19.

I do not understand why it matters if a person gets married before they can carry a can of beer. Is there some sort of symbolism in that act-- once you can, you are an adult?

God's plan for your life may not be his plan for my life. We were young and our marriage has not been perfect. I have not observed that people who marry older have happier marriages, whether they stay married or not. I think that younger people are more likely to divorce and older people are more likely to stay in an unhappy marriage.

Do you look down on people who choose another path?

I question the statistic claiming that 30 is the average age. Actually if I can find it I can refute that point-- 30 is not average.

The above paragraph indicates that it does not actually hurt you to wait into your 30's to get married.

And plus there is no disadvantage to waiting to get married unless you are worried about kids and the biological clock.

Maybe, maybe not. First a woman's fertility is already declining at 30. So instead of getting married and having 5 childfree years before bringing in the children, you might do so right away, or need medical assistance with dangerous procedures even to get pregnant.

In terms of what changed from 18 to 22. At 18 I was an atheist, at 22 my focus was on Christ. At 18 I hated dancing, by 22 I was a ballroom dancer and I had a 5th place in waltz at the National collegate ballroom dance competition under my belt. (among other awards). At 18 I was EXTREMLY introverted and somewhat shy, not anymore I love meeting and talking to people. At 18 I knew everything, at 22 I knew nothing. (Wisdom), At 18 I did not mind using cuss words, in fact they where part of my regular vocabulary. At 22 you would rarely hear a cuss word out of me. At 18 video games where my favorite pastime. At 22 I preferred to dance. At 18 I loved to watch TV and could do so for hours. At 22 I really wasn't too intersted in most of the stuff on TV.

Please allow me to take this paragraph and present an entirely different idea.

The problem is not that people are getting married too young, the problem is that our culture has produced an unnaturally long period of adolescence. We expect our 18 to 22 year olds to run around, drink, be stupid. This is a more recent trend, and the period gets longer and longer. It used to be younger than that. Just a few years ago Time published an article about the generation of adults living with their parents while they did what they wanted rather than growing up. If 18 year olds were more mature, maybe they would be ready to get married. Why aren't our 18 year olds mature? A woman's fertility is peaked in early 20's .... seems to me that God made us this way for a reason. Maybe we should grow up a little faster and stop being such an immature culture. :o

 

[Leanna]

Like you explained in great detail, ppl change a lot in the 18-22 time slot. Even the most mature teenagers still have some growing up to do. Obviously, it doesnt mean it wont work if they marry young (my mom was married at 16, still happily married 32 years later), its just risky, and could end up being more difficult than necessary. If you are meant to be, you will still be together in 3 years.

I believe this is a product of our culture. A more recent trend, in fact.

I changed a lot from 18 to 22. I changed way more from 22 to Present :o :o

You just can't predict.

 

[Luther073082]

I think the main reason ppl in the church pressure young members to get married is because they think that we cant handle the pressure of premarital sex. There are members of CF who have said that ppl honestly told them they had to get married or ppl would start to think they are having sex with their SO, because they have been together too long and everyone knows ppl cant wait that long.

Honestly though my opinion.

I don't want to condone pre-marital sex for anyone but I'd really rather see someone have pre-marital sex at that age (using proper protection) then to see people rush to marriage age and then divorce.

But its best if you can avoid both.

The problem is not that people are getting married too young, the problem is that our culture has produced an unnaturally long period of adolescence. We expect our 18 to 22 year olds to run around, drink, be stupid. This is a more recent trend, and the period gets longer and longer. It used to be younger than that. Just a few years ago Time published an article about the generation of adults living with their parents while they did what they wanted rather than growing up. If 18 year olds were more mature, maybe they would be ready to get married. Why aren't our 18 year olds mature? A woman's fertility is peaked in early 20's .... seems to me that God made us this way for a reason. Maybe we should grow up a little faster and stop being such an immature culture. :o

True enough but counter point. . . We also expect our youth to go through a lot more education too. Education is good in this world but it isn't necessarily conductive to greater maturity.

I'm not bothered by someone choosing a different path, what I am bothered by is all the divorces out of people getting married that young. Nothing wrong with getting married at 19 IF YOU STAY MARRIED. But too many of them don't. We push them to get married and then we arn't there to pick up the pieces when they divorce. At that age people are just more likely to follow the pressure from the people around them. And the pressure says find your man/woman and get to the altar right away!!! If the Church lays off the pressure we'd probably slow things down a bit and have better marriages.

Also what I was speaking of was the average age of men was 30. In the wiki source it says women where 27. I was trying to find the most up to date source because if you look at the dates on the source I can see big changes in just 10 years. Also remember the median age which is more relavent to this discussion IMO is 27 for men (like 24 or 25 for women). But in many churchs if you are 23 and not married you really made to feel like a loser. And so part of what is driving this is fear. My age when I first had to deal with it (converted in college went to a church with mostly students for a while then delt with it after graduation when i went to a regular church) was 23. A big difference among many between 23 and 19 is that a 19 year old is much more likely to make decisions based off of fear then a 23 y/o. (Who can still be influenced big time because there where times it made me afraid but I was single thanks be to God). Decisions made off of fear are often the worst decisions in the world. If we let people put fear into the heart of a teenager they are going to make decisions off that fear and they are going to more times then not be bad decisions.

In general I think its really a bad idea to get married at 19. I think its a bad idea to get engaged with ring on finger after knowing eachother 3 days but my parents did it and married 27 years thus far.

Again I'm not making a judgement on individual marriages but rather on what happens way too much.

 

[Briseis]

I do not understand why it matters if a person gets married before they can carry a can of beer. Is there some sort of symbolism in that act-- once you can, you are an adult?

I think its supposed to mean, marriage is more important than beer. If you cant be trusted with a beer, how can you be trusted to be married.

Please allow me to take this paragraph and present an entirely different idea.

The problem is not that people are getting married too young, the problem is that our culture has produced an unnaturally long period of adolescence. We expect our 18 to 22 year olds to run around, drink, be stupid. This is a more recent trend, and the period gets longer and longer. It used to be younger than that. Just a few years ago Time published an article about the generation of adults living with their parents while they did what they wanted rather than growing up. If 18 year olds were more mature, maybe they would be ready to get married. Why aren't our 18 year olds mature? A woman's fertility is peaked in early 20's .... seems to me that God made us this way for a reason. Maybe we should grow up a little faster and stop being such an immature culture. :o

I definitely agree with this, but the current generation is not mature at 18, and often not at 22 either.

 

[Briseis]

I changed a lot from 18 to 22. I changed way more from 22 to Present :o :o

You just can't predict.

I think changes in maturity levels has more of an effect on a relationship than changes in personality or interests.

 

[Leanna]

True enough but counter point. . . We also expect our youth to go through a lot more education too. Education is good in this world but it isn't necessarily conductive to greater maturity.

I don't really understand. My husband went to college while we were married. I started when he was finished, and have been trying to continue since my son's birth but now that my daughter is here I confess I am having trouble staying focused because I hate my major ....

I'm not bothered by someone choosing a different path, what I am bothered by is all the divorces out of people getting married that young. Nothing wrong with getting married at 19 IF YOU STAY MARRIED. But too many of them don't.

A greater understanding about committment would be nice. Marriage is a very serious committment and I wish that churches would support young couples more particularly with counseling when they need it. Some divorces among the different ages happen and some for justifiable reasons.

We push them to get married and then we arn't there to pick up the pieces when they divorce.

A definite downfall especially in certain types of congregations.

In general I think its really a bad idea to get married at 19. I think its a bad idea to get engaged with ring on finger after knowing eachother 3 days but my parents did it and married 27 years thus far.

So you just never know! I don't know that I would get married again at 19, I might, but it is right for some.

I think its supposed to mean, marriage is more important than beer. If you cant be trusted with a beer, how can you be trusted to be married.

I think that's a good argument for lowering the drinking age.

 

[Leanna]

I think changes in maturity levels has more of an effect on a relationship than changes in personality or interests.

Both times it was a change in maturity

 

[Briseis]

True enough but counter point. . . We also expect our youth to go through a lot more education too. Education is good in this world but it isn't necessarily conductive to greater maturity.

I agree with this. Its different if you leave school, marry, then go back. But if you never leave school, havent learned for yourself yet, are still waiting to be taught and nurtured, its more difficult to mature.

 

[Luther073082]

I don't really understand. My husband went to college while we were married. I started when he was finished, and have been trying to continue since my son's birth but now that my daughter is here I confess I am having trouble staying focused because I hate my major ....

Then change your major?

But it also brings up the point of financial strain too.

A greater understanding about committment would be nice. Marriage is a very serious committment and I wish that churches would support young couples more particularly with counseling when they need it. Some divorces among the different ages happen and some for justifiable reasons.

But its still a divorce. If they are both similar ages and one of them cheats could the cheater's maturity level not have something to do with the fact that they cheated?

I think its a lot harder to stick with one choice once you've made it when you are younger. Yeah sure as you get older you question a choice, and of course I'm sure everyone is going to wonder "What might have been" But older people are less likely to go try and find out.

A definite downfall especially in certain types of congregations.

Agreed there

So you just never know! I don't know that I would get married again at 19, I might, but it is right for some.

But thats something I hear from so many people who got married at that age. You are in no way the only one. Even though you are still with your husband and in love (I assume) you still say "I'm not sure if I would get married at 19 again" To me that indicates that there was something about being that young, be it financial, be it maturity, be it something else that may have caused some difficulty. Now you and your husband worked through it God bless you for it. But a lot of kids don't.

Also when you say that it indicates to me there was an outside pressure on you getting married that young. Because again you are still together but yet you are not sure if it was infact the right timing. (right person but bad timing?) Is there a chance that maybe PART of the reason you got married young was outside influence?

Personally I don't think there should be any outside influence as to when I person gets married. If the couple is perfectly happy dating for 20 years before they marry then that is their choice. (I wouldn't recommend it for other reasons) But I feel like if we try to interject an outside influence on people then they make decisions that may not be the best decisions FOR THEM

I think that's a good argument for lowering the drinking age.

I personally think we need to decide if someone is an adult at 18 or 21. Personally I'd rather make everything 21 because a lot of 19 year old need parental supervision.

But do you see why I personally think that if you are going to do one or the other to DISCOURAGE people getting married at that young age rather then ENCOURAGE it? The church right now ENCOURAGES is which I think is bad, if we DISCOURAGE it and they still do it then there isn't much we can do. The secular world encourages at that age "Enjoy being young and free" while we encourage "Get married ASAP". But as a Christian community we can encourage "Enjoy being young and free" while still discouraging binge drinking, casual sex, and all the other sins associated with that age. Trust me I did it when I was in college, I loved college life and I was not having sex at all and I was never drunk.

 

[Leanna]

Then change your major?

But it also brings up the point of financial strain too.

Well our financial strain is that my husband's major and degree has set him up to be a pastor. Then he decided he couldn't be a pastor anymore (long story). So now he has a degree in something that couldn't have gotten paid much in anyway (very few do well in ministry compared to the number of smaller church pastors) and he's working at a job he could have gotten without a degree. That's life.... live and learn.... etc.

But its still a divorce. If they are both similar ages and one of them cheats could the cheater's maturity level not have something to do with the fact that they cheated?

From what I have seen, heard and know about adultery I don't think its more common in young marriages. Young marriages usually have bad communication problems and immaturity, but its not usually adultery that breaks them up, or I haven't observed or experienced young marrieds struggling with that aspect more than older couples. Hmmm.

But thats something I hear from so many people who got married at that age. You are in no way the only one. Even though you are still with your husband and in love (I assume) you still say "I'm not sure if I would get married at 19 again" To me that indicates that there was something about being that young, be it financial, be it maturity, be it something else that may have caused some difficulty. Now you and your husband worked through it God bless you for it. But a lot of kids don't.

I don't have a problem with getting married at 19. I think there are some wonderful advantages. The reason I question it is because of some unmentionable issues. I don't even want to talk about it. It could have happened at any age. He is a good man though and we will get through it.

Marriage is a lifelong committment if at all possible. Sex is better within the bounds of marriage. But I see you (among others) are more condemning of divorce than of pre-marital sex. I don't see why one is worse than the other. Sin is sin. There's just too much stigma.

Also when you say that it indicates to me there was an outside pressure on you getting married that young. Because again you are still together but yet you are not sure if it was infact the right timing. (right person but bad timing?) Is there a chance that maybe PART of the reason you got married young was outside influence?

I don't think so. In my experience the young marrieds always talk about how everyone is down on them "oh you're too young...." yadda yadda. Trust me, we've all vented on this matter! There is so much condemnation. I am 27, but people tell me I look about 16. I still experience this condemnation when I take my children out around people who do not know me. They assume I am a teen mom.

If the couple is perfectly happy dating for 20 years before they marry then that is their choice.

I've never heard of a couple where both members are happy dating for a real long time.

Personally I'd rather make everything 21 because a lot of 19 year old need parental supervision.

Again, an unfortunate product of our culture that needs to be changed ASAP.

 

[Briseis]

When I was an atheist I never felt pressure to be married. I just figure it would happen when I found the right person. But no sooner did I enter Christ's flock did people start to push me to be married soon. In fact quite a few people especially when I was single (my relationship is relativly new) have by some of their comments unintentionally made me feel like a complete loser for not being married! Ridiculous considering I was 23 years old when it first started happening. But yet I'm from the United States where according to Wikipedia (I know its not always accurate) is 30 for a man! 7 years younger then the average age of marriage and people where already asking why I wasn't married and where my wife was. Utterly ridiculous

I'm glad I dont look my age. I have been dating my bf for over 4 years, and am 22. If ppl in my church knew I was 22, they would probably be hassling me too. No one knows how old I a even though I have been going to that church for 4 years. I still get asked what grade I'm in, and a lot of ppl think my lil bro who is 4 years younger is the older one.

That means when I do get married, likely next year, I might get all the comments about being too young instead.

 

[Leanna]

That means when I do get married, likely next year, I might get all the comments about being too young instead.

Probably

It gets really old though..... looking young.... I've been told it will become a good thing, but it hasn't happened yet. I want to look 21 not 16

Anyway thanks you guys for the discussion..... I think the answer is to just let people marry when they want to and pray for the best!

 

[Briseis]

It gets really old though..... looking young.... I've been told it will become a good thing, but it hasn't happened yet. I want to look 21 not 16

Hey, its Leanna! I just realized. I remember when you still used that name you had pictures. I think you look about 21.

 

[Luther073082]

Probably

It gets really old though..... looking young.... I've been told it will become a good thing, but it hasn't happened yet. I want to look 21 not 16

Anyway thanks you guys for the discussion..... I think the answer is to just let people marry when they want to and pray for the best!

I agree but my problem is within the church its a push to get people to the alter sooner.

You said people where saying you where too young but was a lot of that outside the church?

And maybe people think I look older then I am. I've found that if I have a straight face people think I look older then when I'm smiling. I just know I've always felt this strong push for me to get married in my current church but also from members of my family as well.

I think a lot of people mean well but they hurt more then they help. One they rush people who are too young and not mature enough to get to the altar quicker. And then for people like me who didn't get married right out of college you really feel like a loser. Between all of my friends being married it was really easy to feel like crap.

And with divorce and pre-marital sex yes I agree sin is sin and God may view them as equal. I don't know.

But the reason that I'm more concerned about it is that even though pre-martial sex when properly protected can still have negative effects, I feel like the effects of divorce are a lot worse.

 

[Leanna]

I agree but my problem is within the church its a push to get people to the alter sooner.

You said people where saying you where too young but was a lot of that outside the church?

And maybe people think I look older then I am. I've found that if I have a straight face people think I look older then when I'm smiling. I just know I've always felt this strong push for me to get married in my current church but also from members of my family as well.

I think a lot of people mean well but they hurt more then they help. One they rush people who are too young and not mature enough to get to the altar quicker. And then for people like me who didn't get married right out of college you really feel like a loser. Between all of my friends being married it was really easy to feel like crap.

And with divorce and pre-marital sex yes I agree sin is sin and God may view them as equal. I don't know.

But the reason that I'm more concerned about it is that even though pre-martial sex when properly protected can still have negative effects, I feel like the effects of divorce are a lot worse.

It all depends on your church, you know. Different type of church, different type of congregation. Probably one of your pushes is just that your married friends want you to join them on "the other side"

It was not outside the church, but we lived in a city at the time. It is a different atmosphere.

Hey, its Leanna! I just realized. I remember when you still used that name you had pictures. I think you look about 21.

Yup its me

 

[Luther073082]

Yeah well part of it is that in the Lutheran church you still have quite a few of the elderly people and I've been finding that a lot of the push comes from the elderly.

My friends actually havn't really asked at all about it. They are nice enough to just let me handle it and let me decide.

 

[Stolic]

I agree that it is a problem in church - marriage seems to be pushed from an impossibly young age - marriage is something to be taken seriously and is a lot of hard work - without throwing trying to deal with hormones and maturity into the mix.

One should only enter into marriage when they actually know who they are as a person - and you just do not almost always know that when you are still in your teens. Saying that, it has been mentioned in earlier post that not all teenagers are immature - but it is true that as a teenager you still have some maturing to do.

I agree with earlier points that what you think you know at 19, you realise you may not necessarily see it the same way at 22, and you definitely see things differently when you pass that age too!

Church needs to be more foucsed on how to be as a person - and not treating people as single, to be married or married. There is more than enough teaching for each of these groups, but more is needed on teaching more in the way of life skills I think.

These are just my humble thoughts

 

[peanutbutter12]

Yeah well part of it is that in the Lutheran church you still have quite a few of the elderly people and I've been finding that a lot of the push comes from the elderly.

I don't know what kind of Lutheran church you go to, but I know the one I go to does no such thing. :\

I think a lot of it has to do with the personality of the congregation. Each church is different in the way they handle things.