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Romans tells it like it is, but can you handle the truth?

ZacharyB

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Oh, how Christians love Romans -- because they think it tells them, “You have eternal life!”
But, they have been taught incorrectly and have been deceived by Satan through the churches.
Remember that Satan is the god/ruler of this world/age, and the greatest liar and deceiver!
All you have to place your belief-faith-trust in … are the Holy Scriptures and the Holy Spirit.
Forget everything else … and open up your heart-mind-soul-spirit to God’s spiritual Truth.

Romans 1:5-6, TLB • “… God is sending us out around the world …
so that they, too,
will believe and obey him. … you, too, are invited
by Jesus Christ to be God’s very own—yes,
his holy people.”

>>> It is all about believing and obeying, and being sanctified until one is living a holy life.
Sincere repentance will eventually rid the believer of his/her sins.
Note: one is not automatically holy just because they have been born-again!


Romans 1:16, TLB • “… this Good News about Christ.
It is God’s powerful method of bringing
all who believe it to heaven.”

>>> Believing the Good News is not simply an intellectual belief … true saving belief is tied into
obedience and holiness, which leads to heaven (see Romans 1:5-6 above and those below).


Romans 2:1-8, TLB • “When you say they are wicked and should be punished,
you are talking about yourselves, for
you do these very same things.
And we know that God, in justice, will punish anyone who does such things as these.
Do you think that God will judge and condemn others for doing them and overlook you
when you do them, too? Don’t you realize how patient he is being with you? …
to give you time to
turn from your sin? His kindness is meant to lead you to repentance.
But no, you won’t listen; and so you are saving up terrible punishment for yourselves
because of your stubbornness in refusing to
turn from your sin; for there is going to come
a day of wrath when God will be the just Judge of all the world. He will give each one what
ever his deeds deserve. He will give
eternal life to those who patiently do the will of God,
seeking for the unseen glory and honor and eternal life that he offers. But he will
terribly punish those who fight against the truth of God and walk in evil ways —
God’s anger will be poured out upon them.”

>>> Habitual sinning (without repentance) results in eternal death for absolutely everyone, whereas doing the will of God (which includes repenting of your sins after converson)
results in eternal life.


Romans 3, 4, 5 • Justified by faith, justified freely by His grace, righteousness of faith, etc.
“Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace” (Romans 4:16, NKJV).
>>> Yes, of course, but about 15 NT passages say …
this faith must endure to the end of one’s physical life to inherit eternal life!
Here are 2 examples soon to be realized, which will really test your faith to see IF it is genuine:
• Do not renounce or abandon your faith during the great tribulation
• Do not submit to taking the mark of the beast
The NT Scriptures promise eternal death to everyone who fails these tests!

Romans 6:2-23, TLB • “For sin’s power over us was broken when we became
Christians … Don’t you realize that you can choose your own master?

You can choose sin (with death) or else obedience (with acquittal).
… so now you must let yourselves be slaves to all that is right and holy
… For the wages of sin is death”

>>> Do not be fooled by Paul’s many encouragements, exhortations, and edifications
(which are almost to the point of lying). These Roman believers are still sinning!
They are NOT being slaves of obedience, NOR are they being slaves of righteousness!
Believers need to be instructed to maintain their righteous standing with God …

2 Timothy 3:16 • “All Scriptureis profitable for … instruction in righteousness”
Romans 6:16 • “be (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness”
Romans 6:19 • “present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness”
1 John 3:7 • “let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous”

Romans 8:1-14, NKJV • “There is therefore now no condemnation to those who …
walk according to the Spirit … For if you live according to the flesh you will die;
but
if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.”

>>> Now, here’s an interesting question for all of us … How much is required of:
walking in the Spirit, putting to death of sin, being led by the Spirit?


True saving faith naturally produces …
love for God, obeying God, practicing righteousness, and good works.
All of this is expected of the true believer … it is just simply their reasonable service:

Romans 12:1, NKJV • “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God,
that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God,
which is your reasonable service.”
 
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BrianJK

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Romans 7:15-20 NRSV - I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. But in fact it is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot do it. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells within me.


So is Paul damned for not perfectly obeying?
 
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ZacharyB

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Romans 7:15-20 NRSV - I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. But in fact it is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot do it. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells within me.

So is Paul damned for not perfectly obeying?
I'm not talking about perfectly obeying.
When you mess up ... repent, and the precious blood of
Jesus Christ will cleanse you of your sin.
I know, "Where is that in the bible?"
 
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BrianJK

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I'm not talking about perfectly obeying.
When you mess up ... repent, and the precious blood of
Jesus Christ will cleanse you of your sin.
I know, "Where is that in the bible?"

Don't get me wrong, I think striving for holiness is of the utmost importance, but I just think we should be careful not to devalue Christ as an advocate or to instill despair in believers struggling with any issue.
 
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Circle Christ

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Let's be clear here so that there is absolutely no mistake.

Are the two of you intending to teach the Christians here that eternal life is not eternal? That Salvation is not eternal? That the Christian can lose their Salvation?

Real simple, because of all the threads in this community that address those questions, just answer yes or no.

That way the intent of this new thread is perfectly clear.
 
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EmSw

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Romans 7:15-20 NRSV - I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. But in fact it is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot do it. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells within me.


So is Paul damned for not perfectly obeying?

Let Paul answer this for you.

Romans 8:13
For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Galatians 5:16
I say then: walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Was Paul walking in the Spirit in Romans 7? Was he living according to the flesh? Did Paul put to death the deeds of the body?
 
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EmSw

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Let's be clear here so that there is absolutely no mistake.

Are the two of you intending to teach the Christians here that eternal life is not eternal? That Salvation is not eternal? That the Christian can lose their Salvation?

Real simple, because of all the threads in this community that address those questions, just answer yes or no.

That way the intent of this new thread is perfectly clear.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. Is Jesus eternal?
 
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BrianJK

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Let Paul answer this for you.

Romans 8:13
For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Galatians 5:16
I say then: walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Was Paul walking in the Spirit in Romans 7? Was he living according to the flesh? Did Paul put to death the deeds of the body?

None of that says live according to the Law of Moses, which the Bible says is a yoke impossible to bear, contrasted with the yoke Jesus gives us which is easy to bear.
 
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EmSw

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None of that says live according to the Law of Moses, which the Bible says is a yoke impossible to bear, contrasted with the yoke Jesus gives us which is easy to bear.

Nice, now answer the questions put forth.
 
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EmSw

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Sure, as soon as you (yourself) respond to the yoke of the Law being impossibly heavy while the yoke Jesus gives us is light.

You must be talking about the yoke in which Paul was blameless.

Philippians 3:6
concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Or perhaps you are speaking of righteous Zacharias and Elizabeth.

Luke 1:6
And they were both righteous before God, walking in ALL the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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So is Paul damned for not perfectly obeying?
Was Paul saved by perfectly obeying ? Was anyone ? (hint: yes)
to instill despair in believers struggling with any issue.
Most 'believers' on earth are full of despair. Most are struggling with many issues. But that's for another topic/thread, eh?
None of that says live according to the Law of Moses, which the Bible says is a yoke impossible to bear, contrasted with the yoke Jesus gives us which is easy to bear.
Improper comparison - no basis for comparison, unqualified jurisdiction(appraisals?) .

,,,while the yoke Jesus gives us is light.
Really ? Who has the yoke of Jesus ? What did Jesus say it would cost ? Why did most of His disciples in Scripture(in the Gospels) walk away from Him then ? (and why do most people reject Jesus today then ? )
 
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BrianJK

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You must be talking about the yoke in which Paul was blameless.

Philippians 3:6
concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Is that your response? Righteousness which is in the law, blameless... so he atoned with the proper sacrifices, yet the yoke was to great a burden to bear for anyone present (including Paul) or their ancestors. You still have dodged directly commenting on that.
 
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BrianJK

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Was Paul saved by perfectly obeying ? Was anyone ? (hint: yes)
Not really. Paul was saved because Jesus, who perfectly obeyed, died for his sins.

Most 'believers' on earth are full of despair. Most are struggling with many issues. But that's for another topic/thread, eh?

It was relevant in this context.

Improper comparison - no basis for comparison, unqualified jurisdiction(appraisals?) .

Absolutely proper comparison. The language is the same.

Really ? Who has the yoke of Jesus ? What did Jesus say it would cost ? Why did most of His disciples in Scripture(in the Gospels) walk away from Him then ? (and why do most people reject Jesus today then ? )

I posted just a few posts up in Matthew 11 where Jesus said that the yoke he gives us (which is what is meant when I say the yoke of Jesus) is light and easy to bear. Why did most of his Disciples walk away? First you'll have to show me which disciples did. But whatever it was, it wasn't for not keeping the Law of Moses.

People reject Jesus because they don't want to obey Him. Not because they don't want to obey the Law of Moses. Two totally different and contrasting yokes.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Not really. Paul was saved because Jesus, who perfectly obeyed, died for his sins.
Really ? That's news to me...
And not what Paul claimed...
See, when people are tossed in the lake of fire...
or, before that, when Jesus tells MULTITUDES: "be gone from Me, I never knew you"
whose sins did Jesus NOT die for ?
Would Jesus have saved those people who perish, if they had repented ? (like Jesus said when they asked Him about the tower of Siloam and the people killed when it fell).
See, - Jesus died and His blood more than enough could have paid for their sins,
but they "weren't willing" (like Jerusalem when Jesus lamented over it)...
blood shed, Jesus died, but no salvation for them.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I posted just a few posts up in Matthew 11 where Jesus said that the yoke he gives us (which is what is meant when I say the yoke of Jesus) is light and easy to bear. Why did most of his Disciples walk away? First you'll have to show me which disciples did. But whatever it was, it wasn't for not keeping the Law of Moses.
Your partly right here (unless the Law of Moses means something different for this).
The disciples that remained with Jesus,
kept the Law of Moses - that never changed.
When Jesus asked them WHY they remained (or rather "are you going to leave like all the others? Peter replied 'Who would we go to ? You are the only one with the words of eternal life' )
The disciples who left Jesus, also kept the Law of Moses, most of them every day, all their lives, before and after following Jesus,
so they didn't leave Jesus for that reason, did they now ?
 
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Circle Christ

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Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. Is Jesus eternal?
Are you going to answer the question?
Let's be clear here so that there is absolutely no mistake.

Are the two of you intending to teach the Christians here that eternal life is not eternal? That Salvation is not eternal? That the Christian can lose their Salvation?

Real simple, because of all the threads in this community that address those questions, just answer yes or no.

That way the intent of this new thread is perfectly clear.
 
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BrianJK

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Really ? That's news to me...
And not what Paul claimed...
See, when people are tossed in the lake of fire...
or, before that, when Jesus tells MULTITUDES: "be gone from Me, I never knew you"
whose sins did Jesus NOT die for ?
Would Jesus have saved those people who perish, if they had repented ? (like Jesus said when they asked Him about the tower of Siloam and the people killed when it fell).
See, - Jesus died and His blood more than enough could have paid for their sins,
but they "weren't willing" (like Jerusalem when Jesus lamented over it)...
blood shed, Jesus died, but no salvation for them.

I believe Jesus's blood is the main factor. Without it there is no salvation.

But I'll concede that Paul was saved for his faith, not his own ability to keep the Law of Moses.

Ephesians 2:8-9 - NRSV - For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God— not the result of works, so that no one may boast.

As for willingness, even Paul had issues with that.

Romans 7:15-20 - NRSV - I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. But in fact it is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot do it. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells within me.
 
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Circle Christ

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Are you going to answer the question?
Let's be clear here so that there is absolutely no mistake.

Are the two of you intending to teach the Christians here that eternal life is not eternal? That Salvation is not eternal? That the Christian can lose their Salvation?

Real simple, because of all the threads in this community that address those questions, just answer yes or no.

That way the intent of this new thread is perfectly clear.
 
Upvote 0